2009-08-19, 15:01 | Link #264 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Exactly, yes. Kinzo would have to have set this up long before his death, and I would not put that past him if the Kinzo we see in the magic scenes is anything like he was when he was alive.
In any case, it all makes Nanjo and the servants look very suspect. |
2009-08-19, 15:21 | Link #265 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I think whoever has an axe to grind, it's not for the reasons we expect. And I think Kinzo's epitaph, his willpower, and the Beatrice legend in general are being twisted into something he never intended. |
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2009-08-19, 15:27 | Link #266 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Well as I said, I do not doubt that Natsuhi was the one who's having illusions, based on the context and red texts (perhaps even contexts should not be trusted). What I'm saying is that all scenes are depicted from *someone's* perspective and we don't always know who. For instance if Battler is in a scene, he can either be the observer of that scene or he is in fact the observed (or hallucinated). This usually makes no difference but in Umineko it does. Thus my guess is that all scenes in the game are real. There's no lie anywhere, including the magic scenes. Even those scenes can be explained as narrated from perspectives of people who really believe in magic. To him or her, those scenes are just as *real*. The advantage is that it offers a simple and uniform model to understand the game world. And Ryukishi can make use of this narration method to cause some real confusions. It is easy to mislead the reader into believing some scenes are narrated from a particular person's angle (such as showing that person first) when it is in fact not.
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2009-08-19, 15:44 | Link #268 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Basic problem...each first twilight is different in style (right?) The question now is, why? Six people, sure, just how they are killed and displayed in different. Now if we follow the one mastermind idea, that means that either he/she is whimsical and came up with something different each time, or assigned a different person to commit the crime each time.
If there is just a basic set of circumstances, and something triggers a different person to act each time...what is the trigger, and why always six murders...or is it always six (Kinzo's body?) Something isn't adding up.
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2009-08-19, 16:06 | Link #269 |
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Join Date: May 2009
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The first episode could be a deliberate attempt to be the six. The second could be a coincidence if Rosa was the first twilight killer (as she happened to kill everyone else at the family confernce, which was six people). The third episode you have Kinzo, who wasn't murdered. In the fourth, we have no proof the twilights even really happened, let alone who was the first twilight.
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2009-08-19, 16:11 | Link #270 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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2009-08-19, 17:23 | Link #275 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
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For example. if Eva wanted to kill Krauss, but Krauss was already dead (ie. Ep1), then she would have to botch her plan, which results in someone else killing her. Again, ep5 also hinted the nature of the killings following the epitaph, which seems to add onto my speculation: 1. Cause confusion 2. Just so happened to agree with the epitaph. 3. To cause fear & take revenage on someone. (Open to manipulation, will be discussed at the end) Which, we can use to see why "6" at the start. Spoiler for Ep5 elements:
Case 1 is highly applicable to ep1~4, as people have found different ways around the red text for ep1~4. Ep2 could also happen, where multiple parties made their moves, but probably only a one time thing (ep3/4 comes to mind). Case 3 is just as probably as Case 1, as long as it works. Spoiler for probabilities of case 3 vs red text from ep5:
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2009-08-19, 19:45 | Link #280 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Unless this is some weird family tradition (sort of like a snipe hunt) for Halloween...there should be some bodies.
Though it would be "amusing" if the first twilight was always a prank, but it sparked off real murders due to paranoia.
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