Sword Art Online II - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Jan-Poo]

There is another possibility other than sending harmful information to the brain.

Since people are fully immersed in the virtual world but their real bodies remain still, I can only imagine that somehow the Amusphere interferes with the motor neurons.
This is something quite different from sending signals, and potentially a lot more harmful.

Now the heart is also a muscle but it is regulated by a completely different part of the brain so if the Amusphere was created with care there shouldn't be any chance for it to block the signals that tells the heart to beat. But theoretically if you can block a signal going from the brain to the body, you can block them all.

In the end I think that for someone to be able to cause heart attack on people playing in GGO you need to assume that there are two major flaws. One in the Amusphere itself, another in the game for letting someone hack it and go unnoticed.

[screaming4vengence]

anyone else wondering if he'll get attached to the new girl and it come between him and asuna...although she'll probably be a lil' ticked when she finds out hes a guy.

also kind of shocked he didnt mention SAO

[Xeiros]

Translated commentary from Reki Kawahara for episode 4 is up: http://pastebin.com/ZKZJmiPm

[Haruyasha]

inb4 she gropes his chest and realizes he's not a girl.

Originally Posted by screaming4vengence

anyone else wondering if he'll get attached to the new girl and it come between him and asuna...although she'll probably be a lil' ticked when she finds out hes a guy.

also kind of shocked he didnt mention SAO

Naw, Kirito seems fairly loyal to Asuna. Although her joining the harem train is definitely more likely.

Tbh, I think only Sachi has the power to derail his relationship with Asuna ... and even that is hypothetically only like a 50/50 chance.
(Zero in reality, since she's dead.)


Regarding SAO, it's a custom. Same reason why people in SAO never talked about their past.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by screaming4vengence

also kind of shocked he didnt mention SAO

It's not the sort of thing they boast about.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

So, the people in SAO died because their heart stopped, while they were physically healthy.

People in SAO died because the Nervgear microwaved their brain.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

that makes absolutely no sense.

I don't see why messing with the autonomous nervous system is more nonsensical than messing with the senses. I don't know if there's a "stop the heart" signal, but if not, maybe one could fool the brain into inciting the heart to beat faster and faster till it can't take the strain anymore.

[TwilightsCall]

I don't see why messing with the autonomous nervous system is more nonsensical than messing with the senses. I don't know if there's a "stop the heart" signal, but if not, maybe one could fool the brain into inciting the heart to beat faster and faster till it can't take the strain anymore.

While theoretically possible, the Amusphere is specifically designed to track the user's vitals and sever the connection if something abnormal happens to them - as demonstrated by the guy Deathgun shot in Episode 1 disconnecting rather than just falling flat on the floor.

So if they were doing something like messing with the signals from the brain causing the body to effectively kill itself, the Amusphere would trip its failsafe and turn itself off. Assuming, of course, that the Amusphere hasn't been hacked/modified in any way. I guess its also theoretically possible if the people were using Nervegears, which might not have the same failsafes, but I feel like that's something that would have been mentioned by our government employee friend right at the start.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

People in SAO died because the Nervgear microwaved their brain.

I was referring to this season, and not fictional game 'Sword art online' - so yeah they indeed died because their heart stopped

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall

While theoretically possible, the Amusphere is specifically designed to track the user's vitals and sever the connection if something abnormal happens to them - as demonstrated by the guy Deathgun shot in Episode 1 disconnecting rather than just falling flat on the floor.

Severing the connection after a command like that has been sent won't do any more good then letting them stay connected though (other than decreasing server strain that is).
- And this is pretty much what I believe happened here.

Why?
Because there won't be anything wrong with the vitals until said command gets executed and the connection thus not be severed before that.

Simplicity itself, as Holmes would say.

[Queen of Corners]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

I was referring to this season, and not fictional game 'Sword art online' - so yeah they indeed died because their heart stopped

Except it's been confirmed that NerveGears were banned and the dead guys were found with Amuspheres. And they're supposed to be safe.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Severing the connection after a command like that has been sent won't do any more good then letting them stay connected though (other than decreasing server strain that is).
- And this is pretty much what I believe happened here.

Why?
Because there won't be anything wrong with the vitals until said command gets executed and the connection thus not be severed before that.

Like Anh Minh said there isn't such thing as a "command" to tell the heart "stop permanently", moreover you can't realistically "hack" into the sympathetic nervous system with a VR system (it wouldn't be VR anymore but a mind control device), you can only trick it by sending it false information and that supposing that the device is actually outfitted to mess with that part of the brain (even though it shouldn't).

To put it simply the brain will never cause an immediate heart failure unless it was rendered severely dysfunctional, it will also not cause the heart to beat faster than it can. It might cause a heart failure due to strain and overexertion if something cut out the signals that would notice it of fatigue, but that would take time.

[eiyuuou]

The simplicity of two flaws:
1. Hacking into the seed without being noticed.
If this is possible, it means all players using the seed are not safe, so targeting only 3 people from the same game does not make sense.
2. The amusphere has less powerful transceivers due to the SAO scare,
so how do you not only bypass the safety measure, hacked up the effect to trigger an overload on the heart to kill someone, without even tampering the amusphere?


Simplicity? Nay!

[Biohazardous]

Originally Posted by screaming4vengence

anyone else wondering if he'll get attached to the new girl and it come between him and asuna...although she'll probably be a lil' ticked when she finds out hes a guy.

also kind of shocked he didnt mention SAO

No he better not Asuna is his wife so to speak and they even have a kid pretty much. The way the first season went they are too loyal to each other for that. Another chick to like him sure but to steal him away from Asuna no. His sister would kick his arse for picking some other chic thats not Asuna since he didnt want her.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Really enjoy this episode although there's still some bugging questions I wanna ask. Can anyone explain why the lightsaber was quite expensive for a supposed "useless" weapon in a game about guns? Even Shinon said it was expensive. Do they sell it for decoration or something?

Originally Posted by Kokukirin

As for the bike, well, it's mostly because he owns a motorbike IRL.

And many other people doesn't? I thought GGO was an American game, and a lot of Americans know how to ride a motorbike. Hell, 80-90% of people in South East Asia (or my country at least) who can ride a bicycle can also ride a motorcycle after the age of 15 or during highschool.

Originally Posted by maelstormCaT

And also, regarding the dirt bike in the end, do remember that the setting is 2025.
Allow me to quote another segment from the LN, this will explain it.

Spoiler for LN Quote:

"I threw
the acceleration to the max right as we got on the road. After shifting
gears up several times, the meter finally crossed 100km. I truly felt
glad that I wasn’t riding on an electric scooter but an old bike with
manual gear selection in the real world......
....
In fact, in the age where the
year 2025 is about to end, it’s logical that not many people had the
experience of riding on an old-fashioned manual bike. In the first place,
the standard for practice at training institutes was electric scooters."

That is a manual bike!!! by 2025 manual gear is ancient!! Hence not many people can drive it!!!

If what you said is true, then I seriously question the logic of providing the gamers with a transportation-facility that only the minority can use (which also raises question in and of itself). I think that's kinda defeat the purpose of its existence.

Originally Posted by screaming4vengence

anyone else wondering if he'll get attached to the new girl and it come between him and asuna...although she'll probably be a lil' ticked when she finds out hes a guy.

Maybe he’ll be like James Bond: only one woman being his true love (his late wife) but that’s not stopping him from shagging dozens of other women . In Kirito’s case, you may replace the “shagging” with “being (relatively) close to”.

Originally Posted by hamazura

i wonder if nobita play ggo, he is extremely talented in gun, defeating everybody in all doraemon movie. he might be rank#1

Originally Posted by M.A.D

Yeah, he's got good aim. Didn't need much DEX and AGI if he can hit a mob's weak point by talent alone. So with that, I think he would have been a STR player. Then

Spoiler for what happens next is:

he gets killed by Death Gun

Originally Posted by zero7090

It is nearly impossible for Nobita to be killed by Death Gun since he have X which the other 2 dead dude didnt have.

Yup, Nobita is an unbelievably excellent gun-man. I bet if he plays GGO and being used to its mechanics and rules, he'll be the elite of this game, beating the likes of Shinon, that gattling-gun-guy and Jedi-Kirito. Doraemon will be very proud...or not, because that means Nobita won't be studying .

Originally Posted by dniv

Also, it was nice that the first time Kirito fired a gun, he completely missed. People can call him a gary-stu if they really want to, but he isn't one if he completely failed at firing a gun, the first time he tried to do it. I feel like this was an attempt to appease viewers a bit by making him more balanced.

Unfortunately being inferior in one aspect does not make one less of a Mary Sue. One prime example would be Lacus Clyne, the Mary Sue of Gundam SEED/Destiny. She can't pilot a goddamn Mobile Suit properly in an anime about Gundam battles. She also can't really fire a gun properly nor knows how to defend herself. On the other hand, Cagalli can do all of those, but she's not a Mary Sue since she's not always right, always save, and always pretty .

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Really enjoy this episode although there's still some bugging questions I wanna ask. Can anyone explain why the lightsaber was quite expensive for a supposed "useless" weapon in a game about guns? Even Shinon said it was expensive. Do they sell it for decoration or something?

It probably has to do with the high damage it has if you can actually hit someone with it, but no, why it's priced like that was not specifically discussed.

And many other people doesn't? I thought GGO was an American game, and a lot of Americans know how to ride a motorbike. Hell, 80-90% of people in South East Asia (or my country at least) who can ride a bicycle can also ride a motorcycle after the age of 15 or during highschool.

1. Japan and North America have different servers.
2. Part of the SAO setting is that Japan has largely transitioned to electric motorbikes with automatic transmission. These are gas motorbikes with manual transmission. It would be as problematic as someone who learned on an automatic transmission car to drive a manual transmission car.
3. The overlap between "seriously plays MMORPGs" and "rides full up motorcycles" is probably smaller than you think even in our world.

If what you said is true, then I seriously question the logic of providing the gamers with a transportation-facility that only the minority can use (which also raises question in and of itself). I think that's kinda defeat the purpose of its existence.

Only a buggy being available there does not mean that is the only form of transportation available in the game. Even if it is, and even if only a small number of people in Japan use it, that doesn't mean that more people don't use it elsewhere. They aren't going to tailor each server to the needs of it's specific player base, they're going to have all servers be the same. If people in the US make use of the buggys, and people in Japan don't, they aren't going to remove them.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

@Krono Thanks for answering my nagging questions.

Originally Posted by Krono

Only a buggy being available there does not mean that is the only form of transportation available in the game. Even if it is, and even if only a small number of people in Japan use it, that doesn't mean that more people don't use it elsewhere. They aren't going to tailor each server to the needs of it's specific player base, they're going to have all servers be the same. If people in the US make use of the buggys, and people in Japan don't, they aren't going to remove them.

My post you replied to was a response to MaelstormCat’s post who said “That is a manual bike!!! by 2025 manual gear is ancient!! Hence not many people can drive it!!!”. Which, from his words, I got the impression that it applies to the rest of the world in SAO-verse, not just Japan. If that’s true then why would anyone provide gamers with transportation facility that can only be used by those skilled in riding “ancient” bike? For example, if you're an online game designer, would you provide a communication-facility only for those who knows how to use rotary-phone? Unless it's some kind of mini-game, I think it's a waste of resources.

[Vsin]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Since people are fully immersed in the virtual world but their real bodies remain still, I can only imagine that somehow the Amusphere interferes with the motor neurons. This is something quite different from sending signals, and potentially a lot more harmful.

This was originally covered in the LN during "EP 1" when Kirito is talking to...Mr. Government Dude. The Anime shortened it to "Amusphere can't fry your brain like a Nervgear" but they did cover a ton of things like odd audio frequencies or nervous intereference, and they were all ruled out in the conversation.

I figure it's ok to mention it now since the point already passed and it never gets brought up again for the duration of GGO.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Queen of Corners

Except it's been confirmed that NerveGears were banned and the dead guys were found with Amuspheres. And they're supposed to be safe.

Except that I was talking about the Amuspheres the entire time and have no idea why someone brought the nerve gear up in response to my post, since all the other posts regarding the argument make it evidently that it is about the Amusphere.

As for it being save - The IPhones 5c is supposed to be safe too - yet it started burning on a person's pocket.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Like Anh Minh said there isn't such thing as a "command" to tell the heart "stop permanently", moreover you can't realistically "hack" into the sympathetic nervous system with a VR system (it wouldn't be VR anymore but a mind control device), you can only trick it by sending it false information and that supposing that the device is actually outfitted to mess with that part of the brain (even though it shouldn't).

And yet, right now there isn't really a better way than false information or a command . You can btw very well do that by messing with the electrical pulses the brain sends out.
Either way the SAO (II) world is not outfitted with death notes so the Amusphere is still the most likely murder weapon.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Either way the SAO (II) world is not outfitted with death notes so the Amusphere is still the most likely murder weapon.

Nobody is thinking that perhaps the victims are killed IRL and that the shows that Death Gun puts up on GGO are just a scene to make people think he's doing it online?

I haven't ruled that out yet.

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

As for it being save - The IPhones 5c is supposed to be safe too - yet it started burning on a person's pocket.

What exactly do you mean by "safe"?

And it starts burning in a person's pocket because of the trapped heat, inside the pocket, which causes the phone to overheat. Have you heard of the recent story about a girl's Galaxy S4 burned up under her pillow while she was sleeping?

The phone needs to cool off.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Nobody is thinking that perhaps the victims are killed IRL and that the shows that Death Gun puts up on GGO are just a scene to make people think he's doing it online?

I haven't ruled that out yet.

for that to happen

1. there would be more then 1 Death Gun
2. real life name and address of the victim.
3. form ep1, the autopsy stated they found normal abnormal.

1 is easy,
2 would require either DG to be one hell of a hacker or someone who work for the GGO company.
3. what kind of weapon/ways of killing someone would undetectable to current autopsy techniques?