Attack on Titan - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Strength does not matter if you fight like a blood lusted dumb ass the female titan battles using her wits and speed, The scouts could have killed her had they fought smart instead of getting baited in like noobs.

Well, they were too affixed in their routine so to speak, not baited. They didn't pay attention to the fact, that smoke was coming out of the right eye only.

Jesus Christ imaging if are soldiers went rushing in like that we would have no military left to defend this country what crap kind of training did these people go threw.

There are enough cases of soldiers as individuals, or as part of larger formations getting baited and running headfirst into a trap.

[Veviticus]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Strength does not matter if you fight like a blood lusted dumb ass the female titan battles using her wits and speed, The scouts could have killed her had they fought smart instead of getting baited in like noobs.

They did fight with their wits. Taking out the eyes should have bought them a minute but FT healing 1 eye to speed things up was totally unexpected. Hence why they lost

[MrTerrorist]

Petra....... T_T

The action in this episode was amazing! First was Levi's squad, then Rogue Titan VS Female Titan and Mikasa attacks. Music was great as well.

10 out of 10!

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

In the end choices can go well or badly. Of course just because fighting and relying on his own power alone might have gone well doesn't mean it's always the right choice. In the end too bad the rest of the group isn't alive for him to say "how about having some damn faith in me for once?" A lot of asking about whether or not he trusts them, but how about trusting the guy who could even the playing field in a big way and give you an opening? No doubt that if Eren had transformed back then with that whole team and Levi they probably would have won. People might have still died, but probably would have won.

Good point. It makes you wonder if Eren had transform earlier, would the Corps succeed quickly to capture the Female Titan with a few lives lost or would it have been still the same?

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Jesus Christ the anime really showed how much smarter the female titan and levi are then everyone else when it comes to combat smarts.

Just like the squad was too fixed onto their routine, the titan made a mistake on a larger, strategic level. By being fixed upon her objective of capturing Eren, she is now in a situation with depleted strength, having two of the strongest titan killers following her. Yes, she has captured Eren, but she is in a worse position overall, than had she chosen to retreat after escaping the trap.

As for the squad, don't forget stress buildup. Even the best can lose their cool when under immense mental pressure, which was the situation they were under. First, chased by the titan while everyone around them was getting killed, having to follow orders and do nothing, then seeing their friend getting killed by a surprise attack.

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by Veviticus

They did fight with their wits. Taking out the eyes should have bought them a minute but FT healing 1 eye to speed things up was totally unexpected. Hence why they lost

No they fought with attack patterns some one not experienced in either combat sports or war would miss the subtle amount of details and strategizeing that goes one between the characters. While I have no experience in war I have a crap ton of experience in boxing and 3 years in mma.

Useing a attack pattern and thinking are 2 different things. They did not calculate their enemies ability's or intelligence which cost them their lives. The enemy completely baited them in they should have found it strange that a titan who has been fighting on the offensive the whole time would all of a sudden switch to defense and back up to a tree that was a trap right there.

Originally Posted by SigUp

Just like the squad was too fixed onto their routine, the titan made a mistake on a larger, strategic level. By being fixed upon her objective of capturing Eren, she is now in a situation with depleted strength, having two of the strongest titan killers following her. Yes, she has captured Eren, but she is in a worse position overall, than had she chosen to retreat after escaping the trap.

As for the squad, don't forget stress buildup. Even the best can lose their cool when under immense mental pressure, which was the situation they were under. First, chased by the titan while everyone around them was getting killed, having to follow orders and do nothing, then seeing their friend getting killed by a surprise attack.

Well mikasa would be dead if not for Levi eventually the Female titan would have outsmarted and killed her. Levi is only there because Ervin made him refuel and be battle ready. The female titan did everything she could to outsmart Levi and Ervin. The chess game is not over my friend lets wait and see who out smarts who . Also with a blood lusted battle experience lacking Mikasa around that really works in the female titans favor and not disadvantage. Killing brainless titans and beating up those weaker than you and dealing with a smarter,stronger enemy is a whole different situation.

Again they are soldiers they should be used to this. The real reason they lost is never having to face a intelligent enemy especially one leagues smarter than them.

Oh wait I am forgetting something once eren calmed down and noticed the female useing a muay thai stance he stood there dumbfounded due to shock not exhaustion. Plus he could have won high pressure fighters that never tire out can beat out smarter technical fighters Happened to floyd when he was up in coming and won a fight he really lost.

[thundrakkon]

Something I noticed Erwin saying near the beginning of the episode. He mentioned that the Colossal Titan's human had 3D gear to escape in the steam after it disappeared. That would indicate that the person had prior experience with the equipment and would have already been in army at that point. That would then suggests that the Colossal Titan is not one of the new recruits, whereas Erwin suspects that the "traitors" are new recruits, or at least joined the army after the fall of the first wall.

Considering what most of us figured out as the female titan, does this make sense? Would that also mean that the human form of the female titan knew who to use 3D gear by the time of the first attack on the wall? Which would then indicate that either they are people from inside the walls with special training, or there are forces outside the wall that also knows how to use 3D gear.

Too many unknown variables right now, so I'm just thinking out loud.

[Kakurin]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Well mikasa would be dead if not for Levi eventually the Female titan would have outsmarted and killed her. Levi is only there because Ervin made him refuel and be battle ready. The female titan did everything she could to outsmart Levi and Ervin. The chess game is not over my friend lets wait and see who out smarts who .

The first one is an assumption and not certainty. However, the titan is now working under severe disadvantages. Mikasa is fresh, while she is fatigued. Then, she has Eren in her mouth, meaning if Mikasa can cut her arms and legs she is basically defenseless (unlike before, when she bit Erd). As for the second point, she couldn't have known Levi's fuel status, so in essence, she should have included him into her considerations. Furthermore, she ran right after Eren, not caring who is around him. What if the squad's movement was faster, what if her regeneration was a little slower, what if her eye recovery didn't come right at the moment of Erd in the most vulnerable position? Her getting out was a very close one. She really neglected lots of factors, while being occupied with Eren. If you rely on improvisation as often as she does, it will come back an bite you one day.

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

Strength does not matter if you fight like a blood lusted dumb ass the female titan battles using her wits and speed, The scouts could have killed her had they fought smart instead of getting baited in like noobs.

Jesus Christ imaging if are soldiers went rushing in like that we would have no military left to defend this country what crap kind of training did these people go threw. All muscle and no brain.

Martial arts,Boxing,Combat sports first rule is its about outsmarting your opponent not overpowering.

That is also what I love about this series the only manga/anime where combat smarts determine everything and not power,speed or some power up. The maker of attack on titan must know more about martial arts than I think and be more than just a fan of it because he really gets the mental aspect that comes with fighting. When other series make a character smart it just feels like a asspull like hai im a genius because the plot calls for it this has a organic feel to it I have not found in any other series. Aside from batman when he is putting on a clinic perfect example is batman vs the mutant leader.

Yeah, strength really doesn't matter Then why titans win, humans lose?
Seriously, titans are vastly superior to humans.
FT even has some powerful abilities which other titans don't have.
As long as she is not a total idiot she will easily roflstomp everyone.

[Veviticus]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

No they fought with attack patterns some one not experienced in either combat sports or war would miss the subtle amount of details and strategizeing that goes one between the characters. While I have no experience in war I have a crap ton of experience in boxing and 3 years in mma.

It's hardly an attack pattern when it's the first and I'm assuming the only intelligent titan they've come across. Any other titan wouldn't back against a tree let alone cover their only weak spot with their hands.

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

No they fought with attack patterns some one not experienced in either combat sports or war would miss the subtle amount of details and strategizeing that goes one between the characters. While I have no experience in war I have a crap ton of experience in boxing and 3 years in mma.

I get what you're saying, but I think you're being more than a little unfair to Levi's team. No matter how experienced you are, you still stand a fair chance of getting baited and completely outsmarted when your opponent pulls out something completely out of nowhere.

Levi's team made all the right moves but ultimately they never counted on a Titan being able to speed up regeneration of certain parts or grow armored skin because they had no way to expect it. It was more a case of them being taken by surprise and outsmarted than them being incompetent at fighting.

I don't mean to be offensive but you make it sound like they should always be able to read what their opponent is doing no matter what.



EDIT: Looking at the episode again, I definitely think it was unfair to say they just rushed in blindly, Levi's team coordinated their attacks based on everything they knew about Titans (including what limited knowledge they had on the intelligent ones), again I'd like to reiterate they were taken completely by surprise and they most certainly weren't noobs.

EDIT2: Man, there's a huge difference when you actually see Levi's reactions to his squad's deaths animated, I like the way the animators handled it. I'm not sure if it was just me, but you can just barely see his eyes well up when he looks at Petra's corpse.

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by BoyTitan

The enemy completely baited them in they should have found it strange that a titan who has been fighting on the offensive the whole time would all of a sudden switch to defense and back up to a tree that was a trap right there.

She is on the offensive.
We have just blinded her.
She switches to defense.
It is so strange that it must be a trap!

[Chomiq]

Natural instincts winning control over titan?

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Traece]

I do love it. Every time I think that Shingeki no Kyojin is finally finding something good, NOPE. Yet again, the only way anything can be conveyed is through mass slaughter of even the most likable characters. What better way to teach our characters the harsh lessons of the episodes than to kill everyone?! Can't have our viewers actually enjoying the series either.

Seriously guys. Most of the Survey Corps has been destroyed, and on top of that some of their best people. Oh, but I'm sure we'll be seeing more super-expert Survey Corps members appearing out of nowhere to replace the cast of dead elites.

By the way, the breed of horses they used is called the One-Trick Pony. In case anyone was wondering.

Oh, and that was a nice touch stopping Mikasa, because the two of them clearly would have been outmatched despite the fact that she was doing surprisingly fine on her own. Honestly, if she weren't such an important character she'd be dead right now like everyone else with a name.

Beyond the laughable plot, the action sequences in this episode were pretty great. I had fun watching when I wasn't ridiculing it for its lack of thoughtful writing.

[frodonk]

oh god, this episode, this episode...

never have I felt something like this when watching anything else, I was watching it with eyes wide open, and I was sweating a lot when though it is 15 degrees in here. I just couldn't believe it.

first they had to retreat, then gunther had his nape sliced off, then petra, and everyone else.

just when you thought this couldn't get worse, eren was eaten the second time, in front of mikasa, again.

oh god, it just kept on coming, just when you thought eren could defeat her, then noo no nono, then it takes eren titan's head off, god.

I'm more heartbroken about petra though, such a loss.

I need to go outside, my heart is still beating fast. that episode..

[Mubyoshi]

Man, that was an amazing episode!! I did not get this feeling of "HOLY SHIT!!" when reading this in the manga so the anime definitely did an awesome job this episode.

[ExXentriK]

Very good episode, due to the slow pacing of the 3 previous episodes I was afraid they wouldn't go further than Eren transforming into a titan, I was surprised in a good way. They manages to put the two fights entirely. This is definitely the best episode of the whole Female Titan arc.

[ookamigirl]

Looks like Eren is just a baby considering the female titan and her abilities.
Some new info about that female titan would be nice.
She's been around for a few episodes now, but they're really stingy with information.
Eren should definitely practice more using his titan powers..
Female titan vs Eren titan! Now that's something!
Wow! The female sure has some aces up her "sleeve".
Awesome episode!

[JamJackEvo]

Originally Posted by Chomiq

Natural instincts winning control over titan?

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

To compound on the "mating ritual" the two Titan-shifters were in, this happens to be Eren's ahegao.

[Wandering_Youth]

This human-type Titan fight between Eren and female Titan felt rather one sided.

Oh yeah sure Eren goes into rage mode and land some tough punches, but female Titan still kicked Eren ass around like it was nothing in the end. The animation of the fight scene was pretty nice eye candy though.

Next episode we get to see the two super skilled soldier vs female Titan, woohoo.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Traece

I do love it. Every time I think that Shingeki no Kyojin is finally finding something good, NOPE. Yet again, the only way anything can be conveyed is through mass slaughter of even the most likable characters. What better way to teach our characters the harsh lessons of the episodes than to kill everyone?! Can't have our viewers actually enjoying the series either.

Seriously guys. Most of the Survey Corps has been destroyed, and on top of that some of their best people. Oh, but I'm sure we'll be seeing more super-expert Survey Corps members appearing out of nowhere to replace the cast of dead elites.

By the way, the breed of horses they used is called the One-Trick Pony. In case anyone was wondering.

Oh, and that was a nice touch stopping Mikasa, because the two of them clearly would have been outmatched despite the fact that she was doing surprisingly fine on her own. Honestly, if she weren't such an important character she'd be dead right now like everyone else with a name.

Beyond the laughable plot, the action sequences in this episode were pretty great. I had fun watching when I wasn't ridiculing it for its lack of thoughtful writing.

This, this, THIS. Shingeki keeps on delivering amazing action with amazingly little thought behind it. What's worse is that we're supposed to buy that these are expert soldiers and tacticians, and you can see they're battle hardened veterans BECAUSE THEY'RE WILLING TO SACRIFICE LIVES, SEE? THAT IS SO HARD BOILED. I mean, most of the guys who died since the apparition of the Female Titan have died for nothing. The Legion has been decimated. Some of its best fighters are out. They still failed to defend Eren. On all accounts, Erwin's command has been one of the most blatant demonstrations of ineptitude ever shown on any battlefield. Everyone does stupid things while acting cool and we're supposed to buy that they're good choices. I mean, if Petra and co. had attacked the Female Titan supported by Titan!Eren, they would have probably made short work of her. Hell, once she was blinded Eren could have just delivered a finishing blow and that would have been it. Of course that would have been risky, but still less risky than taking her on with just three human soldiers who were the only escort Eren had. Also, how many guys did the Legion lose on this battle? How do they even get enough replacements if no one ever enlists?

I still love the action and the awesome music. But there's always this underlying lack in writing that pisses me off.