Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

By the way... I saw no one mention Chaber's "request: define happiness" yet.

I am sure when he said that he "agreed" with Striker's definition of happiness, Chamber only agreed in the confines of Striker's definition and not his own. I mean after all there IS only one definition of happiness in the GA, so, that he had to ask for the definition again from a fellow MC, is very suspicious.

I am sure on Gargantia he "learned" a lot, like for example thinking for himself, which it seems Ledo is not as good in right now. But I think at latest if something should happen to Amy, his Beserk button will trigger.


Oh and I wonder if anyone rised an eyebrow when Holo-Kugel said "WE soldiers are left out of the loop about the Hideauze". If so, WHY DOES HE, a soldier as well, KNOW ABOUT IT?

At this point we should realize two AIs are bluffing each other.

Endemic disease? Please pass relevant data. (Checks on Ledo as he lived for months outside. Sounds fishy.) Kugel not showing his face inspires fear. Why isn't a human who isn't in suspended animation still active inside your cockpit.

Define: Happiness? That is the Alliance propaganda definition. We're not now in the Alliance are we? Heck I encouraged my pilot to be happy before we left. Take a four week shore leave and pick a girl to get laid. We found a bunch that cooperates for the happiness of the whole community. I'm made to ensure my pilot is a successful human being and I'm serving man. That is paradise for a machine like us. Your human by what I've learned are happy. In that they appear to have lost human dignity.

For that matter I've been trying to reach the Alliance for months until I find out where in the middle of nowhere we are. And you have been maintaining radio silence? Why?

[Principalities]

Originally Posted by monir

That's an interesting question!

Whatever difference these to AI might have in the aesthetic and formalities, their logical input for self-preservation should be about the same as clearly outlined by Chamber in the last episode. The only difference between Striker and Chamber might be Striker's making decision all by itself (providing the pilot is long dead) while Chamber still gets a human (Ledo) input. For example, Ledo's insistence was what got Chamber to declassify those information revealing the common ancestor between GA and Hideauze.

Of course, there is also a possibility that Striker is still carrying out a human will, living or dead, as it is moving through these plans.

Funny thing is Chamber is now the one asking all the right questions while Ledo is just glad to be back in the chain of command. After watching the subs, it is possible that Kugel might still be alive. It must have taken superhuman effort to remain in the Striker all this time though

Originally Posted by monir

While I agree, I just can't help but point out that some of the worst atrocities were committed by people or agencies who believed they were doing the right thing, or just meant well, i.e. crusade, jihad etc...

Yea. Kugel is not being the kind of "Evil" evil. He is just being"GA" evil. Any chance of him seeing the light?

[Shinhwa]

All out war begins for sure. Gargantia vs Kugel Fleet. More like I am sure this time it will be Chamber vs Striker because Ledo will try to defend Gargantia. And from what I can see, since Striker is stronger than Chamber (since it is a commander-unit mostly), Chamber won't go unscratched this time. He will surely get destroyed along with Striker or will lose an arm and leg for sure. Ledo himself will probably then be free of his soldier duties and will live as a normal human in Gargantia in the end.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by triplez

However this does not make Kugel evil. I prefer villains with motives you can understand.He may believe in his heart he is doing the right thing.

In my book it's the actions you undertake that make you evil - everyone is convinced in their heart that they are doing a great and noble thing.

Forcing people to love in squalor, separating communities, BBQ'ing those who resist or don't conform - those things are objectively evil and that makes whomever is teh ultimate perpetrator Kugel, his Caliber, or the GA evil.

P.S. Yes I know there's no confirmation that the hooded folks were not just having a relaxing nap, but I like the flaming pit of flammyness meme too much to pass up.

[triplez]

Monir is correct, there are plenty of people who committed atrocities because they believe it is right . But noone wakes up saying to themselves they are doing evil.They need a higher justification or belief that what they are doing has some greater benefit to them or their family or their nation. Even simple survival can be enough motivation. If I do not destroy them they will destroy me and the Space Hideaze fits that role perfectly.

If the Continental Union left Earth but the Hideaze didn't follow I suspect the Humans by themselves would divide and turn on each other. With the Hideaze the Galactic Alliance leadership can mantain their power and mold their people into whatever form they need. Hiding the Hideaze origins and maintaining this fiction is most beneficial for them.

With their constant presence in a strange way the Hideaze are helping them, how ironic.

[Jan-Poo]

There is also something ominous about that "awareness" program that Kugel mentioned.

If his objective was just simple assimilation, then they did so already with Flange's fleet. I suspect that what Kugel (or Striker) has in mind is something worse than that.

In other words I suspect that what he wants is to make an example out of Gargantia which entails its total or partial annihilation. That wouldn't be much different from what Darth Vader did with Alderaan. "We have the ultimate weapon, now we need to make the whole universe aware about how terrible it is so that everyone will think twice before defying us."

If I'm right, then that would be absolutely evil.

[Funkatron]

Isn't Gargantia one of the biggest fleets( hence the name )? If Kugel and/or Striker takes it over and/or makes an example of it, it'll basically kill the will of any other fleets.

[broken270]

A society where the weak serve the strong and the amount of rations one gets is equivalent to how much you work for the fleet vs. a society where everyone is to treat and help each other out as though they are one, big happy family. Tension will occur, but who is going to win?

[Mairsile]

Originally Posted by MyrzaelHanzo

I think that little critter who was seen during Ledo´s and Kugel´s conversation in dining room was really similar to Amy´s squirell thing. But if it was really the squirell, what was it doing there in the first place ?

I think the squirrel belongs to the Pirate Queen and is most likely using it, as well as her underlings, to do recon work to uncover what's going on.

Originally Posted by Shinhwa

All out war begins for sure. Gargantia vs Kugel Fleet. More like I am sure this time it will be Chamber vs Striker because Ledo will try to defend Gargantia. And from what I can see, since Striker is stronger than Chamber (since it is a commander-unit mostly), Chamber won't go unscratched this time. He will surely get destroyed along with Striker or will lose an arm and leg for sure. Ledo himself will probably then be free of his soldier duties and will live as a normal human in Gargantia in the end.

For whatever reason, they let the Pirate Queen keep her robot. I can see her giving Ledo and Chamber a hand when the time comes.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There is also something ominous about that "awareness" program that Kugel mentioned.

If his objective was just simple assimilation, then they did so already with Flange's fleet. I suspect that what Kugel (or Striker) has in mind is something worse than that.

In other words I suspect that what he wants is to make an example out of Gargantia which entails its total or partial annihilation. That wouldn't be much different from what Darth Vader did with Alderaan. "We have the ultimate weapon, now we need to make the whole universe aware about how terrible it is so that everyone will think twice before defying us."

If I'm right, then that would be absolutely evil.

Maybe it's a more philosophical sort of awareness. "See what happens when you take your survival for granted instead of actually preparing for a fight?" Comes to the same thing for the object lesson, though.

[Jan-Poo]

I guess that in the case Striker/Kugel are targeting Gargantia specifically it might be that they particularly despise their lifestyle.

Though it's not like the Gargantians never prepared for a fight. They simply do not think that they should fully direct their resources and efforts to build a strong military.

Moreover whether they actually went full military or completely pacifist, they'd still be no match for Chamber. Nobody would think that "if they were more disciplined they wouldn't have ended that way". Chamber would only prove how irrelevant is the difference between a bunch of hippies and the strongest fleet on the planet when compared to the single product of a superior technology.

[jeroz]

if anything, the Walpurgisnacht sure is coming up.

[rocket]

Originally Posted by Mairsile

For whatever reason, they let the Pirate Queen keep her robot. I can see her giving Ledo and Chamber a hand when the time comes.

Oh, good catch! I can see that!

[Traece]

Originally Posted by rocket

Oh, good catch! I can see that!

I got the impression that she wasn't exactly a follower like the others. She seemed to have her own ideas as to how thing should progress.

Though I doubt they'll really amount to anything since she really has no power by comparison to Ledo and Colonel Kibbles, it's possible that she could throw a serious wrench in Kibbles' plans in some attempt to take over. After all, her being an indoctrinated follower of the Aliens Killing Aliens from Space religion? Ehhhh...

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There is also something ominous about that "awareness" program that Kugel mentioned.

If his objective was just simple assimilation, then they did so already with Flange's fleet. I suspect that what Kugel (or Striker) has in mind is something worse than that.

In other words I suspect that what he wants is to make an example out of Gargantia which entails its total or partial annihilation. That wouldn't be much different from what Grand Moff Tarkin did with Alderaan. "We have the ultimate weapon, now we need to make the whole universe aware about how terrible it is so that everyone will think twice before defying us."

If I'm right, then that would be absolutely evil.

Just a small correction. Sorry, SW buff.

Anyway, It's possible that that's what Striker/Kugel have in mind, however, my question then is why would Striker need Chamber? They do make a point of saying that with two machine calibers, they can now do this "awareness program". If it was truly just annihilation they were after, Striker can decimate Gargantia single-handed. Chamber already stated that he could, and if he can, Striker definitely can. So the question is, why does this program require two mechs? What does Striker (or Kugel) need Chamber (or Red) for?

[Runa]

That epidemic disease kugel mention about, why i can't stop thinking that he's now in a state evolving to become hideauze... that's why he can't show himself to public now.

at any rate, if that's true.... then kugel is definitely the final boss for this series >.<

[monir]

Originally Posted by Runa

That epidemic disease kugel mention about, why i can't stop thinking that he's now in a state evolving to become hideauze... that's why he can't show himself to public now.<

Holy cow! That didn't even cross my mind. I hope you are right. It would make for a very good plot twist while wrapped up in an ironical objective lesson.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I guess that in the case Striker/Kugel are targeting Gargantia specifically it might be that they particularly despise their lifestyle.

Though it's not like the Gargantians never prepared for a fight. They simply do not think that they should fully direct their resources and efforts to build a strong military.

Moreover whether they actually went full military or completely pacifist, they'd still be no match for Chamber. Nobody would think that "if they were more disciplined they wouldn't have ended that way". Chamber would only prove how irrelevant is the difference between a bunch of hippies and the strongest fleet on the planet when compared to the single product of a superior technology.

They could if they'd started preparing a century ago. If they'd conquered the whalesquid's territory and recovered the lost tech, studied it, and improved on it.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Or they are after the fleet captain key and transmitter that Gargantia has.

Images

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I have a feeling Earth's wormhole gate is still intact but for anybody get outside it needs to be activated with the key.

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by Runa

That epidemic disease kugel mention about, why i can't stop thinking that he's now in a state evolving to become hideauze... that's why he can't show himself to public now.

at any rate, if that's true.... then kugel is definitely the final boss for this series >.<

And it would give chamber a reason to listen to ledo and fight strykker and a chance of winning great idea I hope that is what happens.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Or they are after the fleet captain key and transmitter that Gargantia has.

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

I have a feeling Earth's wormhole gate is still intact but for anybody get outside it needs to be activated with the key.

Holy crap did you notice that yourself 0-o ?