[Manga] Naruto Chapter 648 Discussion Thread

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

Felt it was an asspull as (1) from Naruto's point of view senjutsu has always been nature's power that was drawn into a guy, but somehow Juugo just totes it around as part of himself;

so anything is an asspull unless the main character is well aware of it prior to it happening? you're not making sense. we've had a good idea of what juugo is and could do for years and many months ago kabuto confirmed it

(2) it's not something that can be passed on to others

kabuto didn't originally have it. also juugo injected himself into sasuke to recreate his organs... that's much more unbelievable than him simply adding his chakra to sasuke's technique so this shouldn't be surprising at all. like it was mentioned, a lot of us have been calling sasuke using nature chakra because juugo for a while now.

also what you're saying isn't possible, is exactly what the elder frogs did for jiraiya to help him use more nature chakra

(3) because it was just so easy and rushed. He literally got the power-up in two or so pages.

and this is different than anything else that has been happening lately? look at naruto and obito

I don't read speculation so I cannot say if it's been bandied about or predicted.

it has

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Eleutheria

Felt it was an asspull as (1) from Naruto's point of view senjutsu has always been nature's power that was drawn into a guy, but somehow Juugo just totes it around as part of himself; (2) it's not something that can be passed on to others (although I guess Orochi's sufficiently advanced technology makes it possible); and possibly (3) because it was just so easy and rushed. He literally got the power-up in two or so pages.

I don't read speculation so I cannot say if it's been bandied about or predicted.

1. We've known that Juugo's bloodline limit is the innate ability to absorb and use nature energy for more than a year.
2. The ability to pass nature energy to others is how Senjutsu was introduced in the story with Fukasaku and Shima gathering it for Jiraiya and Naruto's clones gathering it for himself.
3. Sasuke has learned how to use this ability over the last 592 chapters. He has in fact several years more experience at this than Naruto.

But more importantly than all the logical (for once) reasons for this to happen, the fact of the matter is that the very moment we were told the Big Bad was immune to all but Senjutsu necessarily meant that Sasuke was going to use this power as well along with Naruto.

[james0246]

I actually liked this chapter. Decent flashback (that didn't feel too misplaced nor did it feel like a waste of pages), nice Sasuke moment (I wonder how long the Juugo battery will last?), and now the last characters have arrived and we can finally conclude this thing.

[mangamuscle]

Am I the only one that has this nagging feeling that after 650 chapters where we were shown Hashirama's dream become a reality, now we are going to get 100+ chapters where we get to see Madara's dream become "real" ala matrix?

[Ulquiorra]

Since Ino looks to have booked it back to Shikamaru(who officially won't die since Kishi didn't immediately follow up on it), how exactly was the Alliance able to see Hashirama's memories?

Originally Posted by james0246

I actually liked this chapter. Decent flashback (that didn't feel too misplaced nor did it feel like a waste of pages), nice Sasuke moment (I wonder how long the Juugo battery will last?), and now the last characters have arrived and we can finally conclude this thing.

Just curious, but how exactly was that flashback not a waste of pages? We have already been over Hashirama's dream numerous times. We got it. And it was misplaced since it fit better during Hashirama's history lesson with Sasuke. Not during the final stretch. It just felt like Kishi wanted to show his character designs for the first Kages and their bodyguards/successors. It was just going over things that were already established. The kages didn't along. Juxtaposition to the friends for life current kages. Hashirama wanted peace and was willing to split up the biju. We could have seen this in two panels much earlier.

[Ihaxlikenoob]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Since Ino looks to have booked it back to Shikamaru(who officially won't die since Kishi didn't immediately follow up on it), how exactly was the Alliance able to see Hashirama's memories?

Your guess is as good as mine, it's probably because that he was the one that Ino directly connected to to relay a message to the Shinobi Alliance Army, I guess his extra strong Senju life-force could have had something to do with it as well.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Since Ino looks to have booked it back to Shikamaru(who officially won't die since Kishi didn't immediately follow up on it), how exactly was the Alliance able to see Hashirama's memories?

when in doubt: senju

Just curious, but how exactly was that flashback not a waste of pages? We have already been over Hashirama's dream numerous times. We got it. And it was misplaced since it fit better during Hashirama's history lesson with Sasuke. Not during the final stretch.

i think it was well timed. it wasnt about uchiha vs senju or the creation of konoha (which are relevant to sasuke) it was about all the kage coming together which was hashirama's dream and relevant to this war. currently, all the kage have come together and just arrived this chapter to showcase it to hashirama, thus fulfilling his dream in reality, whereas madara's can only be fulfilled in a dream.

also, this chapter was about comparing naruto to hashirama via tobirama. hashi embarrassingly prostrated himself before people he wanted to convince exactly like naruto did to the raikage. kishi was blatantly making that parallel as well

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Since Ino looks to have booked it back to Shikamaru(who officially won't die since Kishi didn't immediately follow up on it), how exactly was the Alliance able to see Hashirama's memories?

Chakra did it.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Just curious, but how exactly was that flashback not a waste of pages?

The current generation were able to all see the creation of the current system. And they were able to see that the shinobi of that generation could not accept peace. It may be overall redundant information, but the context for expressing the information was correct (especially piggy-backing off of Naruto's expression of renewed hope) and the audience is now receptive to understanding the systems fundamental failings. To put it simplistically, Hashirama gave the alliance the same lesson he gave Sasuke, only instead of focusing on the Uchiha or Konoha, Hashirama focused on the entire world.

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

And it was misplaced since it fit better during Hashirama's history lesson with Sasuke.

Sasuke didn't truly care about the creation of the system (which is why we never say it), he only really cared about how it effected the Uchiha.

[shalala]

Kyuubi with sage susanoo imcoming in the coming chapters. Could look awesome.

[DKN117]

So... First Kishimoto completely forgot Yamato. And now he's forgotten Kakashi. Who's next?

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by DKN117

So... First Kishimoto completely forgot Yamato. And now he's forgotten Kakashi. Who's next?

what we dont know is that yamato is secretly working on destroying juubito from the inside. he'll be the hero this manga deserves

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

what we dont know is that yamato is secretly working on destroying juubito from the inside. he'll be the hero this manga deserves

Actually that is what Kakashi is up to
for reals tho, that ninja better be up to something worthwhile...when he does show up, if it turns out that he set out to retrieve yamato (while looking for a way to stop obito), i cant say ill be mad at that...

quiet as kept tho, i kinda want IT to work...itll be like a manga inside of a manga, stuck in another manga...plus we might get to see the likes of shisui, sakumo, or other kages (i need these characters in future video games

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

Actually that is what Kakashi is up to
for reals tho, that ninja better be up to something worthwhile...

he will play some role in the future for sure. probably after juubito falls apart and returns to pathetic obito mode. then he'll pull a darth vader with kakashi and minato present and will be 'redeemed' and then 'rewarded' by meeting rin in the afterlife where she is waiting for him in that campfire area where kakashi's dad was

quiet as kept tho, i kinda want IT to work...itll be like a manga inside of a manga, stuck in another manga...plus we might get to see the likes of shisui, sakumo, or other kages (i need these characters in future video games

i think IT will work based on shounen law. if obito fails at it, madara will succeed. these stories always show the worst case scenario before the heroes can eventually prevail

[james0246]

Whatever happened to the Zetsu army? Are they all dead? Kishimoto would have been better served to use the Zetsu Army against the Alliance, thus keeping them away from the actual fight, and ending the needless fluffing of Naruto's ego during the battle with Obito.

[Miraluka]

Now everyone can master senju by adapting to it?

I think I saw Orochimaru's ancestor in the past.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Why all these complaints about Sasuke being able to receive chakra from Juugo? He did it with the cursed seal as we learned but he also did it when Juugo healed him. And even now its not like Sasuke can use senjutsu, he can't, he just uses the chakra received by Juugo to his advantage, but it doesn't seem to be amplifying the power of his susano, its only to be able to hit Tobito.

However this also is a hint that Sasuke will be able to receive senjutsu chakra from Naruto without being turned into a stone. And i like this explanation since this seems to be a hint that he will be able to use rinnegan powered by Naruto's senjutsu chakra. In this chapter Orochimaru reveals that Sasuke can surpass Madara, but he only says he has the potential, i think this is another hint that there will be some sort of time skip after this war ends and Sasuke will become a sage and with that he will awaken the rinnegan in a natural way, not in a forced artificial way as Madara did. And since Sasuke won't accept to rely on Naruto to use the rinnegan he will have to master senjutsu stuff himself, and the most reasonable way to do this is to make another timeskip right after the war.

Another reason why senjutsu chakra being able to transform the EMS into the rinnegan would make sense is that it would explain Madara's story. Madara did read the stone tablet before he left the village, so he should have had the rinnegan for that, but he didn't have it. What if he stole an amount of the senjutsu chakra from Hashirama at the times Hashirama used it. With a small amount he could turn on the rinnegan for a short period of time, just the time to read the secret. Realising this he formulated the plan to create a clone of Hashirama which has Hashirama's senjutsu chakra. So he wanted Hashirama's cells to be at their peak sage power when he steals them, so he planned a big fight where he forces Hashirama to power up to his maximum and stole some cells in that state and then create Zetsu. But his plan didn't work quite well because even powered by those cells he could awaken the rinnegan only at his old age. Kishi can explain this simply by saying that the real senjutsu user's chakra is needed and Zetsu was just a crappy copy that's why it didn't work.

It would be nice if we learned that the kage summit in the flashback was somehow ruined by Madara, and that he used the stolen senjutsu chakra to experiment with his rinnegan, and in the chaos caused by distrust between the kages he somehow killed Hashirama or caused Hashirama's death indirectly. If he used some of the 6 paths back then instead of his own powers nobody would think that it was Madara's doing. And since Hashirama wanted peace above all he would not fight the kages with his full power, a perfect time to indirectly assassinate Hashirama. This would answer how the hell did Hashirama die at such a young age when he was so much stronger than anyone and also could heal himself. For example if Hashirama was somehow restrained by the jutsu of a few other kages in the whole mess and he would want a peaceful solution, but then Madara's human path (could be in the form of another kage who Madara just killed,so Hashirama would not notice Madara's presence) would pull out his soul. And all this caused the 1st ninja world war. This explanation would definitely be better than for example the one used for Itachi, the mysterious illness that kills godlike ninja at a very young age...

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

However this also is a hint that Sasuke will be able to receive senjutsu chakra from Naruto without being turned into a stone.

I'm not so sure…some level of practice would be needed. as stated sasuke is fairly acclimated to juugo's chakra.

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

This would answer how the hell did Hashirama die at such a young age when he was so much stronger than anyone and also could heal himself. For example if Hashirama was somehow restrained by the jutsu of a few other kages in the whole mess and he would want a peaceful solution, but then Madara's human path (could be in the form of another kage who Madara just killed,so Hashirama would not notice Madara's presence) would pull out his soul. And all this caused the 1st ninja world war. This explanation would definitely be better than for example the one used for Itachi, the mysterious illness that kills godlike ninja at a very young age...

i subscribe to the idea that Hashirama killed himself, likely sometime after he killed madara. the kage summit was a success as denoted by the story specifically ohnoki and his flashbacks…
i imagine if there were a shinobi that killed hashrama, his/her name would be legendary…and yeah i don't think he had leukemia like itachi did

oh yeah, i dont think madara gained the rinnegan at any point before when we were told he did. at the end of his life....i think the story he told was all deciphered with just the EMS.

[sky black swordman]

So was what the First Kazekage was asking for signing to the pact with the other villages too much? Your opinions on this?

[Poetic Justice]

Bwahahaha cursed seal being Sage chakra is ridiculous.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by sky black swordman

So was what the First Kazekage was asking for signing to the pact with the other villages too much? Your opinions on this?

Definitely. The land makes sense, but 30% of what would be given to Konoha? You're already asking for land in lieu of a bijuu, but then you want money too? At best he should get 5-10%, since they only have 1/9 of the bijuu, not 1/3.