(CR) Oda Nobuna no Yabō

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by Mizuno

I wonder if Saru will pick up the sword for Nobuna's sake. Not necessarily be a force but at least be able to defend himself so she doesn't have to worry too much.

And the all the people she loves end up dying thing... potential red flag for Saru?

I doubt it, since Saru is taking place of Hideyoshi, is anything, he's gonna out-live Nobuna. Besides, he's the main character, he dies, the story ends. Of course, that is not counting Saru returned to his world and appeared "dead"

[Anime Online]

Episode 3 was a blast. I waited all week for it!

It is abundantly clear that the anime is much more light-hearted compared to the historic events it is based upon. The averting of Nobukatsu's and Dosan's death flags are prime examples.

In episode 3, Yoshiharu rushed headlong into danger to rescue Dosan, even though he had no prior game or history advantage to exploit in this instance. This shows that he is not simply a character who relies soley on his "unfair" advantage, but is willing to put his life on the line for Nobuna. Historic Dosan perished in the battle of Nagaragawa, in which he made his last stand by the banks of the Nagara river against a much larger rebellion force led by Yoshitatsu. Hence, the anime moved events around, but it did keep details correct when anime and historic events move in the same direction.

Examples include:

(a) Anime Dosan mentioned Yoshitatsu is not really his son. As historic Yoshitatsu's mother is the concubine of the previous daimyo of Mino, his parentage is in doubt.

(b) Owari and Mino province are separated by a river, so if Dosan were to make an escape towards Owari, it would be correct he makes a river crossing.

Episode 3 also sets in motion the eventual enmity between the Azai and the Oda clans. In this part, I approve of the way the anime handles it through the rejection of Azai's marriage proposal. The historic reason why Oda eventually fought the Azai-Asakura anti-Nobunaga alliance can be rather complex, so the anime's way of doing it is simpler and easier to understand for its viewers. It also allows the anime to fit in the story within a few episodes. However, by changing things around, I believe it will be more difficult to appreciate how cleverly Nobunaga maneuvered his way through the turbulent political landscape.

I'm looking forward to the battle of Okehazama next episode. For those who feel that Yoshiharu did not have much of a role to play in episode 3, I believe he would have a much more prominent role when Nobuna returns to fight Mino province later on. Historic Hideyoshi's contribution was instrumental in how Nobunaga was able to secure an easy victory in taking Inabayama Castle in Mino.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by whsie

If you were raw light novel reader, you would probably realize that this cour has A LOT of good light novels being adapted (Hagure, Campione, Dakara, SAO, Oda). Of that group only Oda has been properly and faithfully adapted. It's the only adaptation where I can say reading the novel and viewing the anime is similar.

To be honest, I abhor most of these so-called "light novel" and see the entire shelf of them as pile of manure.
I partially blame Yuuichi Sasamoto (Ariel, Mouretsu Pirates) and Hajime Kanzaka (Slayers) for being pioneers of the whole line of these, even though their works themselves were MILES better than majority of absolute rubbish sitting on the shelves as solidified puke.

Back when they were writing excellent books like Yousei Sakusen series and Higaeri Quest (I actually like Higaeri Quest over his more famous work, Slayers, which was a snorefest for me after the first few. ), they didn't have terms like "light novel". But their works on these youngster-focused novels led to the surgence of this concept.

Now that I got my hatred out of the way, I tend to keep a VERY low expectation on anything based on these modern "light novel", so I'm very happy when I'm proven wrong and the adaptation comes out to be decent.
Nobuna is one such case. In my bias, I totally expected it to be "lol yet another sengoku shit with nothing but girls, like many other in the stink pile".
I'm glad I was wrong.

[Friday]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

Historic Dosan perished in the battle of Nagaragawa, in which he made his last stand by the banks of the Nagara river against a much larger rebellion force led by Yoshitatsu. Hence, the anime moved events around, but it did keep details correct when anime and historic events move in the same direction.

once again interfering history, couldn't keep his mouth shut and stay out of it....

Originally Posted by Anime Online

Episode 3 also sets in motion the eventual enmity between the Azai and the Oda clans. In this part, I approve of the way the anime handles it through the rejection of Azai's marriage proposal.

Nagamasa was arrange to married to Oichi...
is she in this series????

Yoshiharu is an @**hole

[larethian]

Originally Posted by whsie

If you were raw light novel reader, you would probably realize that this cour has A LOT of good light novels being adapted (Hagure, Campione, Dakara, SAO, Oda). Of that group only Oda has been properly and faithfully adapted. It's the only adaptation where I can say reading the novel and viewing the anime is similar.

Spoiler for off topic:

To be honest, I don't consider this list to deserving of the classification of good light novels. Some of them may have some decent entertainment value, but that doesn't necessarily make them 'good' in terms of story and writing IMO. I think SAO is the only one I will acknowledge to be labeled good, but even as I'm reading v10, I still stand by my previous opinion that SAO arc is still the best arc of the series. Of course that doesn't mean that the rest are not entertaining and engaging. If you watch Hyouka, like what Ibara said, good stuff really stands out and makes me go 'WOW' {stuff like Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei (though it's overly descriptive text on the most minor stuff might be regarded by some as bad in Japanese literature), Utsuro no Hako to Zero no Maria (takes a genius to write), Fate/Zero(which originally is a novel, not a light novel), Toaru Majutsu no Index (a very powerful setting), Sword Art Online (good details in scene construction and engaging story telling style + a degree of novelty in VR/Game genre), Densetsu Yuusha no Densetsu (though it has unconventional writing style regarded as bad by many, it has a pretty powerful, deep story), etc. etc.}. Of course, this can be subjective. But that aside, I do read a bunch of average, mediocre LNs which entertain me sufficiently. Just that I'm a little picky when it comes to labeling something as 'good'. My 2 cents.

That aside, I haven't read Nobuna and a few other series, so maybe the respective authors have excellent writing / story-telling skills which make them above average. But ideas / plot / content-wise, I won't label them as 'good' yet (sorry, but it's just mho). But like I said, that doesn't necessarily mean they have poor entertainment value to me (likewise, entertainment value is also subjective).

Originally Posted by Undertaker

I doubt it, since Saru is taking place of Hideyoshi, is anything, he's gonna out-live Nobuna. Besides, he's the main character, he dies, the story ends. Of course, that is not counting Saru returned to his world and appeared "dead"

That kind of end will really suck. But to be honest, I rather have an end where Nobuna goes to Saru's world when she 'dies' in history rather than Saru staying in her world and history changing. Oh yeah, I will actually rate this story higher if people like Dousan still dies in the end through a twist of events with the author pulling an emotional jerker on us. (Note that I'm just expressing my preference, there's no need to tell me the answer or spoil me. )

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by whsie

If you were raw light novel reader, you would probably realize that this cour has A LOT of good light novels being adapted (Hagure, Campione, Dakara, SAO, Oda). Of that group only Oda has been properly and faithfully adapted. It's the only adaptation where I can say reading the novel and viewing the anime is similar.

Erm I kinda disagree; the sequence of events in the Anime is... Different from the sequence of events in the original. Basically it's doing the same thing as Campione, but to less devastating results.

I won't go into details (too risky ) but I would still agree that it manages to capture the feeling of the story and the characters in the original perfectly... No scratch that; in my opinion, I think that the Anime actually does better in overall story and character presentation- How often does that ever happen?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Kaihan

This show needs more love, freebies I made after spending part of my afternoon but it was well worth it:

*snag*

[Undertaker]

Originally Posted by larethian

That kind of end will really suck. But to be honest, I rather have an end where Nobuna goes to Saru's world when she 'dies' in history rather than Saru staying in her world and history changing. Oh yeah, I will actually rate this story higher if people like Dousan still dies in the end through a twist of events with the author pulling an emotional jerker on us. (Note that I'm just expressing my preference, there's no need to tell me the answer or spoil me. )

I agree, but that would create another problem, who is to carry over Hedeyoshi's exploits? Although, if this is indeed an alternate past, it won't really matter, screw the other world...

BTW, larethian, you should really give this series a try. It is pretty cleaver with the way it meshes all the historical events together with twist that fit the series's premises.

However, I will agree that I can be a bit biased when it comes to series based off Sengoku and Three Kingdom Periods

Spoiler for on LN talk::

Anyway, I agree with your view on good and entertaining. Personally I consider both Bungaku Shojo, Maria-sama ga miteru and stuff by Tanaka Yoshiki to be good, but not necessary entertaining by today's standard. (though I had fun with them) while I find Nishio Ishin's work to be both and I agree on SAO, though, IMO, Accel World is better.

Originally Posted by Friday

Nagamasa was arrange to married to Oichi...
is she in this series????

Yoshiharu is an @**hole

We'll see in a few episode,

Spoiler for not really spoiler but just in case:

all I'm gonna said is that it is one of the best turn I have ever read in an LN.

[Lukeman1884]

Ehh, it's entertaining, but at times it feels like they're just forcing the drama too hard, and it becomes kinda painful to watch.

[Haak]

It is a bit difficult to fully make sense of what is going on especially if you're a newcomer like me but since I'm not even in it for that then I guess it's not that much of a problem. Tsundere Nobuna was more than enough.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Lukeman1884

Ehh, it's entertaining, but at times it feels like they're just forcing the drama too hard, and it becomes kinda painful to watch.

Like some had said before, some historical background knowledge might be required.

For me though, even though I'm not well verse in the Sengoku period, I'm more than familiar with the topic about the moral dilemma that the characters face, especially those in command of the armies.

[ReaperxKingx]

Before I started watching I read up on the history. It is better that way, because you will know the changes that are made from the original. Huge amount of things are already changed that will change Nobuna's fate later on. By now, a lot of characters should have died, but are still alive due to intervention. I already made a request page to get the Light Novel translated on Baka-Tsuki for those interested in reading it. If you want to vote go there or private message me.

[NoemiChan]

We can't based all of the future happenings in the anime in the history books. Gender bending Nobunaga had completely change the course of history...

Can't wait for more battle scenes and the romances between our princess and her monkey...

[ReaperxKingx]

Some events in the History Books already occurred, but are drastically changed in outcome and the amount of time. I expect more will happen.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

It would be interesting if Yoshiharu/Saru gave Nobuna a few ideas for military innovations from the future- he obviously wouldn't be able to make a modern rifle or anything, but if you think about it, even the invention of the bayonet changed warfare dramatically- no need for pikemen. Also, not to mention the simple idea of giving a tanegashima musket a second barrel would allow for the great advantage of the allowing for multiple shots before reloading

Taking it a step further, it would likely be possible to develop some sort of crude revolver using a matchlock mechanism, most likely with a six-barreled pepperbox design, either in pistol, musket, or cannon form (large version similar in appearance to a Gatling gun- not as fast firing, but still very rapid for the time.

Another idea would be a "volley gun", basically a row of musket or light cannon barrels mounted on a cart (designs exist in the notebooks of Leonardo Da Vinci). One version that was actually designed much later in the 19th century during the Texas War of Independence (at least according to the History Channel) would actually be quite easy to make in feudal Japan. It worked by arranging 20 or so loaded muskets in a row, and removing the mechanism and placing a trough filled with gunpowder on top of the holes in the barrel originally designed for the firing mechanism. When the trough of powder was lit, the powder burn rapidly, setting off all the guns in a rapid, machine gun-like volley of fire. It is possible that this design could even be stacked, so that instead of 20 barrels in one row, there would be 60 barrels in three rows, though each row of barrels would need its own trough of powder unless it were possible to drill a hole in the bottom of each barrel, so the ignition of the top barrel would (in theory) fire the other two.

He's probably not the geeky type who's actually into technology and engineering to be capable of such a thing. If you actually throw someone who's read 200+ volume of Scientific American by the time they are in high school (as I have) to the story setting, you can easily uplift their tech levels by at least 200 years and not just in military tech and tactics. The fights would be insanely unbalanced to the point of absurdity.

[Sumeragi]

About tech: People don't realize that developing weapons isn't easy for regular civilians, even with all the supposed knowledge we would have. A general concept by itself will not help advance technology without the necessary infrastructure in place. Japan never had the amount of steel for mass manufacture of bayonets nor did it have the sufficient quantities of tanegashima (Japanese arquebus) to make the volley gun a standard way to doing things (never mind how a volley gun made of arquebuses is very difficult to maintain, especially in Japan's humid climate).

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

(Japanese arquebus) to make the volley gun a standard way to doing things (never mind how a volley gun made of arquebuses is very difficult to maintain, especially in Japan's humid climate).

Just imagine the quantum leap if stainless steel (which can whistand the humid weather, albeit not saline corrosion) was introduced in japan, it would cost a fortune but a samurai armor with stainless steel would be lighter and tougher. Albeit I doubt monkey has such knowledge in his brain (or if he does, chromium is not an easy to explain term).

[ReaperxKingx]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

Just imagine the quantum leap if stainless steel (which can whistand the humid weather, albeit not saline corrosion) was introduced in japan, it would cost a fortune but a samurai armor with stainless steel would be lighter and tougher. Albeit I doubt monkey has such knowledge in his brain (or if he does, chromium is not an easy to explain term).

Also, how will they get the materials? Steel and many modern materials for Modern Weapons comes from mining and I pretty sure, they wouldn't have enough time to mine. During the Sengoku Era, gun powder have not been refine yet.

[Sumeragi]

The technological infrastructure for the modern stainless steel only came into existence in the beginning of the 20th century.

[ReaperxKingx]

If they were to make steel weapons, than our "Monkey" is a genus. Highly unlikely, the closest they are going to get to that type of sharpness if they mine out the Obsidian from a nearby volcano. Are there any volcano in the Owari Province in the first place?

[JohnNiles]

Even if he were able to apply advanced technology, those techniques would eventually be copied and used against him, setting off an arms race. They would have to subjugate all their opponents before that happens.

If I had to pick something with the least hassle, I would choose cryptographic techniques (and that requires specialized knowledge too) for encoding orders and recon info. But I'm not sure how encryption works with a pictographic language...

edit: corrected spelling