Final Fantasy XIV

[Jan-Poo]

Finally killed Ravana Extreme today, that double prey is a real mess to handle with PUGs, I guess the safest way is to just let a Paladin eat them with HG.

As a side note I've really seen how much a WAR OT can shine in that fight, with deliverance always up and full STR accessories he was just a bit behind the DRG in DPS.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Not as impressive now as it once was I guess, but I enjoyed it. Was a good quest line to get it all.

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[MeoTwister5]

Winning on rolls on the first run of 3 Alex floors, all without wiping.

T'would seem the RNG gods smile upon me.

[Galaxian]

Currently in Lv47 (main quest in Lv32 though). I'm trying to reach 50 before my month is up.

[MeoTwister5]

Welp 3.05 is now out.

Looks like this is AF2, since all Esoteric gears except for accessories are all class specific so no sharing of left side gear between tanks, dps and healers. Good move since this will keep Alex normal relevant. Most people will go for weapons this way.

Still no increase in Alex drop loots though.

[iceyfw]

i'm reading so much saltiness about the pvp rank gear change for the i100 and i110 pvp gear. good thing i never did the pvp grind in ARR

well now we know how yoshida plans to handle the pvp gear each expansion from now on seemingly.

[kyp275]

Well, this patch is a giant “FU” to DoH from SE. As things stands, it’ll take nearly 1 ½ years to gear out your crafting classes with red script gears. Going for the crafted versions isn’t even an alternative either, since they require items that needs approx. the same amount of red scripts, you’ll have to spend 1 ½ years just to get the mats to make the crafted version too, and GG if you fail to HQ them.



On top of that, there are nothing worth making anyway – no new jewelry recipes, and the top tier crafted gears are only i180 anyway, far too outclassed by tome gear to be worth making – especially since they also require a crap ton of red script item to make.



Time to retire my crafters back down for repair duty again, 3.0 DoH is even more worthless than 2.0.

[MeoTwister5]

I needed on a crank on 4th floor rather than for the chest piece. And won it. Now I have to wait 3 weeks to get the i190 chest piece.

DERP.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Well, this patch is a giant “FU” to DoH from SE. As things stands, it’ll take nearly 1 ½ years to gear out your crafting classes with red script gears. Going for the crafted versions isn’t even an alternative either, since they require items that needs approx. the same amount of red scripts, you’ll have to spend 1 ½ years just to get the mats to make the crafted version too, and GG if you fail to HQ them.



On top of that, there are nothing worth making anyway – no new jewelry recipes, and the top tier crafted gears are only i180 anyway, far too outclassed by tome gear to be worth making – especially since they also require a crap ton of red script item to make.



Time to retire my crafters back down for repair duty again, 3.0 DoH is even more worthless than 2.0.

It's obviously not as bad as what you're saying. The crafted items don't seem to require nearly as many red scrip token items as the actual red scrip gear itself. It still puts a bit of a cap on the amount of gear that'll be out on the market (given that red scrips are capped weekly), but this will create some tough choices (and profit opportunities) for the early-runners. There's also no question that this will get easier in time. For now I'd say what they're trying to encourage is for people to focus on their specialist classes only, rather than trying to fully gear all their DoH (since that'd be basically impossible unless you saved up tons of gold to buy crafted gear from others -- although this will be a good opportunity for that gold to be redistributed).

And well, they've always said that crafted battle gear was catch-up gear, and wouldn't compete with raid gear, so I don't find it really surprising on that point. HQ 180 crafted gear can still be pretty good when melded, and will probably beat 190 gear, but probably won't beat 200. There might be a market for people who are trying to gear up quickly for Alexander Savage, or want a stepping stone while they wait for their 200 tome gear (since that too is capped weekly).

Personally speaking, I'm just taking it casually as I did before. I'm starting with the gathering classes to build up supplies (and unlock everything on my retainers), then just slowly work my way through the crafts. We'll see where I'm at when 3.1 comes out, and what changes happen then.

[MeoTwister5]

Lots of raging in the SE forums about the 450 weekly and allegedly how Alex NM stuff is now obsolete. Do people seriously want to faceroll their way to BiS gear in a week? And given how expensive Esoteric stuff is and how they're per job and not role based Alex NM gear isn't going obsolete any time soon.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Lots of raging in the SE forums about the 450 weekly and allegedly how Alex NM stuff is now obsolete. Do people seriously want to faceroll their way to BiS gear in a week? And given how expensive Esoteric stuff is and how they're per job and not role based Alex NM gear isn't going obsolete any time soon.

I think things are quite balanced the way they have it now. Alex NM is basically a stepping stone to Alex Savage. If you're gotten enough experience in NM, you should be moving on to Savage. Right now, there's no way to upgrade your Esoterics except by the drops from Alex Savage (though that'll probably change in 3.1).

And indeed, at 450 weekly cap for Esoterics, you're not going to gear up that quick that way either. It's another option, but it'll still take you weeks/months.

My guess is that people are thinking that Alex NM is taking the place of Coil in the old days, but it isn't. Alex Savage is the equivalent to the old Coil.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Lots of raging in the SE forums about the 450 weekly and allegedly how Alex NM stuff is now obsolete. Do people seriously want to faceroll their way to BiS gear in a week? And given how expensive Esoteric stuff is and how they're per job and not role based Alex NM gear isn't going obsolete any time soon.

Regarding Alex the only point where I agree with the complaints is the one regarding how shaft has become the most unwanted drop. It takes too much of a time investment for a transitioning piece of equipment, 4 weeks for a ilvl190 body when you can get a ilvl200 one in half the time. So obviously now people are trying to get springs instead so to get the legs quickly. I've seen shafts being discarded already.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It's obviously not as bad as what you're saying. The crafted items don't seem to require nearly as many red scrip token items as the actual red scrip gear itself. It still puts a bit of a cap on the amount of gear that'll be out on the market (given that red scrips are capped weekly), but this will create some tough choices (and profit opportunities) for the early-runners. There's also no question that this will get easier in time. For now I'd say what they're trying to encourage is for people to focus on their specialist classes only, rather than trying to fully gear all their DoH (since that'd be basically impossible unless you saved up tons of gold to buy crafted gear from others -- although this will be a good opportunity for that gold to be redistributed).

Yea, when I wrote that post, I didn't notice the red script items comes in stacks of 5. Other than that though, my point still stands - crafting as it is setup at the moment is pointless.

Anyone who's serious about progressing their DoH is not going to part with their red scripts - As for whether others would part ways with theirs... it's hard to say, and would depend on how difficult it'll be to obtain them. In any case, odds are good it'll require some substantial investment, which brings me to the next point...

And well, they've always said that crafted battle gear was catch-up gear, and wouldn't compete with raid gear, so I don't find it really surprising on that point. HQ 180 crafted gear can still be pretty good when melded, and will probably beat 190 gear, but probably won't beat 200. There might be a market for people who are trying to gear up quickly for Alexander Savage, or want a stepping stone while they wait for their 200 tome gear (since that too is capped weekly).

This, combined with the sheer gating of red script, is the problem. There are only two things to make = DoH gear for other crafters, and these so-called catch-up gear, which utterly fails at that role.

Stat growth between ilvl isn't linear anymore. Take for example the leg armor. Where you gained 3 main stat and 5 vit going from 170 to 180 on the Law gear, the difference became 8 main stats and 9 vit compared to the i190 gears. With the significantly reduced potency of secondary stats in 3.0, you're going to be hard-pressed to try to overcome that even if you penta-meld, and there is literally nothing you can do for Vit.

What this ultimately creates is a set of gear that isn't going to be meaningfully more effective at raiding than the Law/Centurio gear that the game practically throws at your face for free, but will be enormously costly - because all these gears requires the same amount of red script tokens as the crafter gears.

I doubt there are many people looking to pay millions and millions (and probably more) for gears that are equivalent to what they can get from uncapped tome. It doesn't even really work as glamour - the i160 version looks identical!

Personally speaking, I'm just taking it casually as I did before. I'm starting with the gathering classes to build up supplies (and unlock everything on my retainers), then just slowly work my way through the crafts. We'll see where I'm at when 3.1 comes out, and what changes happen then.

Which is fine, it's just that for those of us who were looking forward to further progress on our crafters, the red script is a slap in the face. It's by far the heaviest and likely to be the costliest grind in the game, and there's little payoff for it at the end. Even if you gear everything out, DoH is more isolated than ever before - your customer base has more or less shrunk to just other crafters. You can't make any gear for gatherers, no meaningful gear for DoW/M. Consumables are the only things left, and there's literally nothing new there - anything you can make to use/sell, you already can, with zero need of any new gear.


In any case, at least I know SE are getting direct feedback on the issue, what they'll do is up to them. At this moment I simply don't see progressing DoH through the red script grind as a worthwhile investment. I have the gil to blow through it, but for the same effort you're far better off sticking to DoL and ignore the gear grind on DoH.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Regarding Alex the only point where I agree with the complaints is the one regarding how shaft has become the most unwanted drop. It takes too much of a time investment for a transitioning piece of equipment, 4 weeks for a ilvl190 body when you can get a ilvl200 one in half the time. So obviously now people are trying to get springs instead so to get the legs quickly. I've seen shafts being discarded already.

The majority or people will likely go for i200 weapons anyway like me.

So anyway with new crafter recipes coming out, anyone know of any stuff from fishing that might increase in demand for future crafting? Fishing is my primary income, mostly blue cloud corals and maps.

[Alchemist007]

Considering the supposed nerfs to secondary stats, I think making the max ilvl craftable gear only i180 is a mistake by the devs. If it was i190 and if the stats weren't nerfed, I think it would be worth it considering the current obtainable max ilvl is i210. That's the reason I had a pentamelded Kirimu coat as my main body slot for FCOB, a good i110 item melded up to be better than i130 at a large cost (I spent about 15 million gil making and melding it, and that's still beating the melding odds). I'm just going to level and slowly gear my crafters for the sake of it but I don't see anything other than glamors being the current endgame for crafting for me.

Almost downed A1sav (25%), it's not really any harder than T10 from a dps perspective. The tanks are getting destroyed at certain points so they just need a smarter CD rotation for the tank busting plasma attacks. I think we'll get it tomorrow.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by kyp275

Which is fine, it's just that for those of us who were looking forward to further progress on our crafters, the red script is a slap in the face. It's by far the heaviest and likely to be the costliest grind in the game, and there's little payoff for it at the end. Even if you gear everything out, DoH is more isolated than ever before - your customer base has more or less shrunk to just other crafters. You can't make any gear for gatherers, no meaningful gear for DoW/M. Consumables are the only things left, and there's literally nothing new there - anything you can make to use/sell, you already can, with zero need of any new gear.

It's obvious that there will be more things to craft in 3.1, as the scrip grind is going to outlast the journey to the next patch, at least for people who want to be omnicrafters again (which it seems to me they're trying to discourage). But I guess that requires faith that the carrot will be there, even though it may not be there right now. My guess is that people who take the time/effort to go through the grind they can now will have opportunities when the next patch hits... but, again, that's sort of operating on faith.

Of course, I also think that they'll make the red scrip journey easier in time too.

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Considering the supposed nerfs to secondary stats, I think making the max ilvl craftable gear only i180 is a mistake by the devs. If it was i190 and if the stats weren't nerfed, I think it would be worth it considering the current obtainable max ilvl is i210.

If they did that now, it'd be better than the gear from a raid, particularly considering melds. Even if Alex Normal is like a "story mode" raid, at this point in time people are still on a timed schedule to get the gear it drops. So right now it's too early to be able to craft 190+ gear if you follow their overall logic. More or less, they don't want people with lots of accumulated gil to get ahead of the grind too quickly (and then complain that they have "nothing to do").

But I will agree that, given that this gear is a lower-tier, the requirements to make it (and thus the cost) are too steep. I've felt this way about crafted gear in 2.x as well, though. Clearly, they don't want top crafters to just flood the market with competitive gear, but I think the balance seems a bit too slanted at the moment. I wonder if part of the issue may be the disparity between the available/accumulated gil in the various servers.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

The majority or people will likely go for i200 weapons anyway like me.

Even then you can get a body and a weapon in 5 weeks (plus an accessory), Unless you have started collecting shafts since the first week Alexander was released, it's not worth it. Better get the 190 legs early instead.

[kyp275]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

So anyway with new crafter recipes coming out, anyone know of any stuff from fishing that might increase in demand for future crafting? Fishing is my primary income, mostly blue cloud corals and maps.

There's dusk leather (with cul desynth), which is used to make the Company tabard/shield/hat glamour. Some of grade 2 dissolvent for the i180 gears might need fishing items, like gloaming coral for str etc. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the items needed for the red script mats turn in are from folklore fishing either.

Originally Posted by Alchemist007

Considering the supposed nerfs to secondary stats, I think making the max ilvl craftable gear only i180 is a mistake by the devs.

It's there, though I wouldn't call it a nerf per se. More like the scaling is different depending on your level. If you go back and run lv.50 capped content as lv. 50, you'll see that the secondary stats retains their old weight. This is probably most easily seen on healers/casters with spell speed. Where low 600 sspd used to get me 2.30 cast time on fire 1 @ lv.50, the same sspd @ lv.60 would have me around 2.40 cast time instead.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

It's obvious that there will be more things to craft in 3.1, as the scrip grind is going to outlast the journey to the next patch, at least for people who want to be omnicrafters again (which it seems to me they're trying to discourage). But I guess that requires faith that the carrot will be there, even though it may not be there right now. My guess is that people who take the time/effort to go through the grind they can now will have opportunities when the next patch hits... but, again, that's sort of operating on faith.

Of course, I also think that they'll make the red scrip journey easier in time too.

Naw, this won't deter those who want to be omnicrafters, just like what many did in 2.0 to circumvent the tome cap, they'll just use alts instead. Though in this case it's worse, as the red script items is tradable. I can reactivate my alt account today and have a couple characters ready to farm red scripts before the day's over, and viola, I've just tripled my weekly red script cap.

I wonder if part of the issue may be the disparity between the available/accumulated gil in the various servers.

If you're talking about per-characters basis with legacy vs non-legacy, I would have to say no - ARR had so many gil faucets that whatever accumulated gil was carried over from 1.0 is but a drop in the bucket. Now if you're talking about total gil per server, naturally the ones with more people would likely to have more, but then that doesn't really mean much.

If anything, I think what prompted SE to scale things this way was how fast SCOB/FCOB was cleared by people using overmelded gear. In which case they have committed the same mistake that many others have done - you can't balance things around what the likes of Lucrezia and BG does, because 99.99% of the rest of your playerbase can't do it.

Not that it's worked, A1 and A2 Savage was cleared within the first few hours on day 1 anyway.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Have to say going through all the post 50 story quest stuff before getting to the Heavensward content is quite the slog. I'm level 52 at the moment and I've only just completed Lady of the Lake. It annoys me mightly that I can't get my new spells yet, lol.

[Alchemist007]

I'm feeling like I don't really have to even gear my crafters, except to get ready to craft the next set of crafter gear

I'm thinking I won't even go that far, just deal with that when the time comes next gearset (if it's even worth it then ). Glamor items and furniture I think is simple enough to craft with lower level gear provided I meet whatever superficial minimum craftsmanship/control they impose.