(L) Spy x Family

[Kanon]

Forgot to post last week.

In the end, Franky and Loid's first meeting didn't end up being the beginning of their friendship. Loid meeting up with his old friends who he thought were dead only for them to be killed in an badly planned operation a few days later was cruel. But it is the event that led him to realize the importance of information and how he got recruited by the agency.

Too bad we didn't get much more. But it was something.

[James Rye]

Also looks like the anime is doing really well for the manga sales, up to 600%, wow.

[Magin]

The anime is getting MASSIVELY popular in Japan, and so this is going to continue for a while.

But after reading the cruise ship arc... assuming we get well over 200 chapters for this (it is a hot), can we really keep the whole "secret identities" thing going? This is what's becoming truly irritating for me: Endo apparently can't write more than one competent character at a time. Loid was seeing all the listening devices everywhere, and while Yor is badass... she can also be very, very oblivious (though arguably Loid can be too).

Oh, and I was reminded of why I only read this in spurts now: Anya at school is becoming the worst part of this manga. It's barely even funny anymore.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Magin

The anime is getting MASSIVELY popular in Japan, and so this is going to continue for a while.

But after reading the cruise ship arc... assuming we get well over 200 chapters for this (it is a hot), can we really keep the whole "secret identities" thing going? This is what's becoming truly irritating for me: Endo apparently can't write more than one competent character at a time. Loid was seeing all the listening devices everywhere, and while Yor is badass... she can also be very, very oblivious (though arguably Loid can be too).

Oh, and I was reminded of why I only read this in spurts now: Anya at school is becoming the worst part of this manga. It's barely even funny anymore.

Honestly the unrealistic parts of the story are a really annoying distraction from what would otherwise be an interesting story based on the underlying premise, it's the likeability of the characters that keeps this story going and not just grinding to a halt.

[Kanon]

That chapter was really short and rather boring, especially after what we just got.

[stray]

I dunno, I really liked the chapter honestly, and it was probably necessary after the second tonitrus bolt.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That chapter was really short and rather boring, especially after what we just got.

The problem is that you can't have such a massive reveal in terms of backstory and motivations for a major character and immediately follow that by doing nothing with it.

What makes it even more jarring is that such heavy subject matter was followed by a bunch of lighthearted filler-type chapters. Loid was also relegated to cameos in the chapters following his backstory reveal. Big misstep imo.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

The problem is that you can't have such a massive reveal in terms of backstory and motivations for a major character and immediately follow that by doing nothing with it.

And what exactly do you expect Loid to do differently? His mission objective hasn't changed.

Even if his past is new to us as the readers, from Loid's perspective it's always been something he has always carried on his back. It doesn't have any bearing on what he should be doing going forward other than what he has always been doing.

[MK-95-]

^There're many things he can do which would've made much better use of his backstory than the recent chapters have done. Don't make excuses for mediocrity my guy. You're not on this manga's payroll, so there's no need for that.

The biggest takeaway from the flashback is that Twilight feels like he's truly alone in the world and has nobody left to open his heart to. This was emphasized when the recruiter told him that he'd have to abandon his identity and he answered along the lines of "that's fine, because everyone who knows that name is already long gone". This can easily be used to further develop his characterization and build/strengthen his relationships with his family and associates.

The one thing of substance we got from him was his advice to Anya that she should cherish bonds. This can and should also apply to himself since he currently keeps everyone at arms-length.

For example:

1. He could've used the flashback as a means for reinforcing his motivations and mission.
2. Alternatively, experiencing the flashback could lead to a renewed view on life.
3. We can also go a route where he decides to approach things differently with (less-calculated) methods he previously wouldn't have tried.

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Also as an element of storytelling, when a character's past is revealed to readers, it is usually used to signify a change in that character's characterization or environment (i.e. Authors don't just throw out backstories for shits and giggles. They usually use it to build towards something more).

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

^There're many things he can do which would've made much better use of his backstory than the recent chapters have done. Don't make excuses for mediocrity my guy. You're not on this manga's payroll, so there's no need for that.

The biggest takeaway from the flashback is that Twilight feels like he's truly alone in the world and has nobody left to open his heart to. This was emphasized when the recruiter told him that he'd have to abandon his identity and he answered along the lines of "that's fine, because everyone who knows that name is already long gone". This can easily be used to further develop his characterization and build/strengthen his relationships with his family and associates.

The one thing of substance we got from him was his advice to Anya that she should cherish bonds. This can and should also apply to himself since he currently keeps everyone at arms-length.

For example:

1. He could've used the flashback as a means for reinforcing his motivations and mission.
2. Alternatively, experiencing the flashback could lead to a renewed view on life.
3. We can also go a route where he decides to approach things differently with (less-calculated) methods he previously wouldn't have tried.

Need I remind you that this is not new information to the person in question? Loid has always known this and it's been driving him from day one. This is not some epiphany that will magically change his life. It's his past that he's always carried with him.


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Originally Posted by MK-95-

Also as an element of storytelling, when a character's past is revealed to readers, it is usually used to signify a change in that character's characterization or environment (i.e. Authors don't just throw out backstories for shits and giggles. They usually use it to build towards something more).

And you don't think Loid's environment has changed? That's the entire point of the series.

The readers are given perspective that Loid used to live a life where everyone around him dies and he can no longer trust anyone around him. Now he's willing to place value on friendships like a normal person despite the setback and his paranoia.

[stray]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

Also as an element of storytelling, when a character's past is revealed to readers, it is usually used to signify a change in that character's characterization or environment (i.e. Authors don't just throw out backstories for shits and giggles. They usually use it to build towards something more).

You're probably just used to shitty writers like Jun Maeda whose characters' entire motivations and arcs can be neatly explained by a flashback. Sometimes backstory is just there so we know a bit more about the characters. It doesn't have to have a deeper meaning.

[Wandering Soul]

I did not mind it as a bit of a breather chapter and the jokes were funny enough for me.

[MK-95-]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Need I remind you that this is not new information to the person in question? Loid has always known this and it's been driving him from day one. This is not some epiphany that will magically change his life. It's his past that he's always carried with him.


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And you don't think Loid's environment has changed? That's the entire point of the series.

The readers are given perspective that Loid used to live a life where everyone around him dies and he can no longer trust anyone around him. Now he's willing to place value on friendships like a normal person despite the setback and his paranoia.

Characters can lose sight of or outright forget why they're pursuing a goal, it's not that unrealistic to think about. When they do something long enough, it eventually becomes part of their routine and while their motivations and goals may still be the underlying factor for them developing that routine, they sometimes need to be reminded why they're doing it to begin with (hence flashbacks can be used to that effect. Helps the character in question while also giving the reader the opportunity to see that character's past). There have been entire arcs and sub-plots dedicated to scenarios like this in fiction. It's not uncommon or unheard of.

Note: I'm not saying that's the case with Twilight, but it was an option and imo would've been a much better/more impactful option than what we actually got.

Originally Posted by stray

You're probably just used to shitty writers like Jun Maeda whose characters' entire motivations and arcs can be neatly explained by a flashback. Sometimes backstory is just there so we know a bit more about the characters. It doesn't have to have a deeper meaning.

I guess Jun Maeda also penned stories like Naruto, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Dr. Stone, Goblin Slayer, 86, Code Geass, Kaguya-sama, Ousama Ranking, Fullmetal Alchemist, My Hero Academia and so many more that I can list off the top of my head, but I think I've already made my point.

All of the above contain examples of when backstories/flashbacks are effectively used to further develop a character or progress a plot line.

I guess all of the authors of the aforementioned stories are "shitty writers" for knowing how to incorporate and make "good" use of backstories/flashbacks to improve their stories.

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To both of you, I think it's best we agree to disagree. We really aren't on the same page here and I'm steadfast in my opinion of the recent chapters. They're honestly a waste if you ask me. So much more could've been done off the back of those backstory chapters.

I also think I'm starting to drag this out more than I necessarily intended. I won't respond to any replies beyond this because I've more than covered what I wanted to touch on to begin with.

[stray]

Originally Posted by MK-95-

I guess Jun Maeda also penned stories like Naruto, One Piece, Demon Slayer, Dr. Stone, Goblin Slayer, 86, Code Geass, Kaguya-sama, Ousama Ranking, Fullmetal Alchemist, My Hero Academia and so many more that I can list off the top of my head, but I think I've already made my point.

There's some relatively big names there but its all relatively by the numbers shonen stuff. Seems like what you're really concerned with here is adherence to formula.

You're welcome to your opinion but there really doesn't need to be a bigger reason for a flashback other than the author wanting us to know more of a character's backstory.

[Shadow5YA]

A lot of those big names aren't exactly counterexamples either. For example, Kakashi had his flashback of his younger days with Obito long before the Shippuden timeskip and it took several years before we actually got the reveal that Obito was running Akatsuki as Tobi.

Rengoku got his standalone chapters that were a flashback to his qualifying exam only after the manga ended.

[MK-95-]

^I know I said I wasn't going to reply but seeing you reaching like that made me want to chime in one last time.

So we gonna pretend that the Truth about Itachi following his death didn't happen? What about the whole "what/who is the King?" conversation between Asuma and Shikamaru during the Hidan/Kakuzu arc? Oh wait, so I guess the whole Rain orphans thing with Jiraiya didn't happen before his death in the Invasion of Pain arc? Hashirama telling Sasuke about his and Madara's beginnings and what lead to the current state of affairs during the 4th Ninja War arc also doesn't matter too much I guess...

I won't even bother to touch on KnY because anyone whose read that knows just how integrated flashbacks are into that series in particular. Just about every major character and villian experiences a flashback during every arc. It's become a bit of a meme at this point.

Like damn bro, I get it. We don't agree on the current topic, but cherry picking one or two outliers from series that have multiple notable examples supporting the point I made isn't helping your case.

[Shadow5YA]

Whether they are outliers or not isn't the point. The point is that like stray has said, there are flashbacks that do not necessarily change the characters in any way and only serve to put them into perspective for the audience.

Flashbacks that move the plot in some cases do not suddenly invalidate the cases where they don't and vice versa.

The problem is when you go even further and try to assert that flashbacks must move the plot. I provided you examples where no, it doesn't have to be that way.

[nfsac]

Chapter felt like a huge filler.

[Meera]

I enjoy the latest chapter. It's the 1st time Anya and the housekeeper spending time with each other alone outside of school. I think it is a good idea for him to give her the late night tutoring because it benefits Loid in his mission more along with Anya's dedication to work harder. His advises about the graduate Stella students are excellent since deep down, he hoped she achieved like them despite her reputation. It's good that he encouraged her instead of talking down like most in their time period.

After seeing both her parents exhausted from work, I'm glad that she is taking her 1st step to change by skipping her Spy show to study, which ended hilariously Loid thinking she received another Bolt.

[Anh_Minh]

Spoiler for ch 65:

Plot without warning!
So many questions. Does Damian's mom blame Anya for her kid's tonitrus? Does she know about her son's crush, and if so, what does she think about it?