To Aru Kagaku no Railgun archived manga discussion

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by silvercover

Tbh that would probably be the only cool fight for touma. Almost all of his other fights relied on the enemy being mad, stupid, oblivious when they could have won if fought properly.

That's part of the fun. He finds a way to overcome them in the toughest situations and they aren't perfect. They are human. They have faults, they get pissed. And he wins because he is also a competent fighter.

His team battles are equally great. Best fights for me.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by silvercover

Tbh that would probably be the only cool fight for touma. Almost all of his other fights relied on the enemy being mad, stupid, oblivious when they could have won if fought properly.

Eehh, no, that's kinda wrong bro.

Originally Posted by Flere821 once said

Index arc: If Touma didn't have Stiyl and Kanzaki, Index's Dragon Breath would have killed Touma right then and there.

Deep Blood arc: Again, without Stiyl around casting mirages Aureolus would have scored a hit on Touma when his right arm was cut off.

Sisters arc: Mikoto convinced #10032 and the Sisters to help, and as a result it stopped the plasma from roasting Touma.

Angel Fall arc: As aforementioned, Touma achieved jack all in this arc. It was thanks to Tsuchimikado's long range blasting that the incident was solved.

Sherry Cromwell arc: Touma broke Sherry's face, yay everything is all solved now- Oh wait. The Golem went berserk and would have pulped Index when she was taking care of it fine without Touma's intervention before. Great going, Hero. Kazakiri had to break herself at a few places to hold it off long enough for Touma to come charging in to clean up after himself.

But let's get into a deeper analysis.

First, the magicians. Have you read works set in the Nasuverse or other works pertaining a magician? Or just played games or RPGs with a mage or magician? What do they all (the typical wizard type of character) have in common? They hit hard but have weak defense. They are fragile because they focus more on their magic. Be it in defensive magic, offensive magic or support magic, magicians tend to have weak bodies.

And there's a reason why mages fall like flies to the likes of Kiritsugu as well. Similar to how all the magicians in Index aren't responding well fighting Touma I guess: they really simply weren't prepared for it. Depending on the setting, Anti-Magic might not be something that the power ability users come across often, and hence they're not used to their abilities not working.

Bringing me to my second point, the opponents' understanding of Imagine Breaker. Unless you know you are going to face Imagine Breaker, or even better if that's your plan from the start, you're not going to be prepared for it. I mean, in Index's scenario, up until Vento, hardly anybody knew or expected the Imagine Breaker, so nobody were going to prepare for it. Even when they knew, anyone who consider themselves strong will underestimate him and think he's weak. do they even know his weakness or full grasp of his abilities? they only knew his right hand is special. Yes it can negate magic and supernatural abilities. But that's all there is too it. According to his records, he's a Level 0 and a stupid delinquent in class. No one will take seriously a guy like that.

You could reply with ''Yeah, but in battle, you have to be prepared to quickly change strategies in case your original plan fail.'' True that, but I'll say one thing: when you're in a real fight, it's very rare that you're willing to try something that you're not trained in or comfortable in performing. It's somewhat of a trope already that mages in general are creatures of habit. A surprise attack can easily kill him or use a darn gun and he's dead, but magicians and espers have their own style of fighting and pride in their powers, especially the strong ones. So the shock value of that habit being broken (read: crush my opponent with raw power alone as it has never failed me until now) is enough to render them helpless for the most part. Touma's opponents rely so much on their own powers that they keep using them even when it's very clear to them that it will not work on him. But hey, at least Accelerator tried to harm Touma indirectly, and more and more power users have wisened up and decided to think up countermeasures (cough*GREMLIN*cough). Concerning guns, the kind of magician that uses modern tools as part of their normal arsenal is usually the kind that has no faith in his or her own power- in which case he/she is a half-assed magician and weak to begin with.

You also work on the assumption that most of Touma's foes truly have battle experience. Some are just agents or assassins, they have the skills to do a surprise and/or sneaky attacks, but in long drawn out fights, they are quickly overwhelmed (with the exception of Motoharu). Some others are just alone and think that rushing in and crushing everything in sight is a sound tactic (it is not). Even if they do have battle experience, most of it comes from one on one magicians fight, not against one guy with an unexplainable power. The only ones I can think of fitting your criteria would be: Styil Magnus, Kanzaki Kaori, Agnese Sanctis, Acqua of the Back, and Princess Carissa. With the exceptions of Styil and Agnese, they all gave Touma a run for his money.

Touma also freely admitted (forgot where) that his fighting style and skills are not suited to fight multiple opponents, opponents with superior speed, and opponents who can fly (not flying magicians, cause they apparently can't as St. Peter banished flight magic or something). Personal opinion, I think he's fine and he can't just force his way to victory against most foes, he's usually forced to fight by his enemies rules because of his power being reactive moreso than active (to the point his power technically doesn't exist unless there is supernatural around: Mindfuck). So it works well (most of the times) that Touma doesn't plan too far ahead and thinks on his feet.

PS: Most of my examples are set before Volume 20 because after that it's a whole new matter altogether

[silvercover]

well from my position as a vs debater, touma vs. *insert guy who has magic powers/skills* often ends up with that other guy winning rather than touma, gets more annoying if OP insists touma wins.

sure in story it would make sense due to various circumstances and such, like X character gets overcome by grief which gives the villains a shot at killing him. but it still doesnt negate how the other character could have won if they put more thoughts in it.
its good once in a while, but once almost every battle won is due to the enemy doing something/being stupid, it starts losing its taste. it especially loses some of its "epic" feeling when you realize the character never really got to be serious/fight all out or how the guy keeps on being lucky.

what could have been done was had touma show off some more deduction and strategy where he outskills/outsmarts them. like he uses their powers against them, uses the environment to his advantage, etc. so far its really just being "lucky" in blocking some the attacks(as we always see he still gets hit and is tossed around) and barreling through before an "epic" punch to the face that ends it.

im perfectly fine with people helping touma out in battle, to add more diversity in the fights. it isnt amusing though if their purpose in battle is just to fall to show how strong the enemy is and to provide the opening for touma(by taking the hits sigh).

for accel who tried? I disagree there, it feels more like the reverse actually. he started off being ranged and was winning, then he went melee after being hit and is still sticking to melee which led to his loss.


as for the nasuverse comparison, eh im not so keen with using that for this one.
gonna use spoiler for this since it talks about fate verse.

Spoiler:

one: kiritsugu is still a magi and has his own magic to fight. and there's also his usage of modern warfare which already gives him an edge as he's already a magi. your comparison would work better if kiritsugu either was normal and used weapons, or if he was a magi who only used his own brand of magic. he's diverse and really knows what to do.
two: we dont really get to see as much magi(as compared to other beings like death apostles, servants, etc.) focus to draw how good they normally would be. the closest we could try to draw for comparison of magus would be either keyneth or tokiomi, and tokiomi barely fought while already commented as exception among magi(as already seen he's one of the least douche). keyneth was pretty much prepared as he could be against kiritsugu with the little info(like him using guns) and was doing fine til kiritsugu pulled out his cards. then he tried to "smart" up by strengthening his barriers, which was in kiritsugus plans.

but the fact he didnt stick to pattern after being rebuffed shows that he learns, its just that kiritsugu did that intentionally.

three: I imagine your referencing rin beating caster in melee? well here rin fooled her, its different in that if rin was able to get in close without looking weak, caster would have teleported or been more careful. touma didnt fool anyone, or he at least didnt try to fool anyone i.e. he didnt have any plans or strategy.

one notable difference:
these characters who end up using the magus pride against them, knew beforehand what they were doing. touma has no idea he's making these people pissed off, hell he's trying to prove them how wrong this view is rather than using it to his advantage

another thing here is that while they may not know touma's power at first, they are given enough time in battle to see what he can do. sure they can be forgiven for not knowing its only on one of the arms, but for some of the examples where they do learn they end up somehow still going back to the previous failed attempt.
accel who learned that ranged attacks could work, but went back to melee?
styl who was able to hold off him with his summon but uses ordinary flames again?
thatguyfromhimegamiarc already "beat" touma with that memory erasure but doesnt go back to it?
thatgirlfromdaihaiseisaifirstday was able to overcome touma with various usage of spells, but decides to use 1 whole spell for last? also she showed that she can melee.

what id like to see is touma overcome the disadvantage, not the enemy tripping on their own feet.
so far the only fight I have seen that id say was pretty good and proper would be touma vs vento, where each one really fought without going amnesia and touma learning how to avoid those blasts. even if she was pretty sick in that fight, we could see she actually was able to still fight properly.(though I am irritated how easily touma somehow made her consider herself as wrong and break her resolve[how has no one ever told her this or have her realize til now?] but thats another matter not concerning how he fights).

[RPG_Fanatic]

Originally Posted by silvercover

what could have been done was had touma show off some more deduction and strategy where he outskills/outsmarts them. like he uses their powers against them, uses the environment to his advantage, etc. so far its really just being "lucky" in blocking some the attacks(as we always see he still gets hit and is tossed around) and barreling through before an "epic" punch to the face that ends it.

styl who was able to hold off him with his summon but uses ordinary flames again?

We are really getting off-topic, but I'll address some of your concerns here, sticking to material in the anime since that appear to be what you are familiar with.

Touma does use deductive skill, and the environment when available.

For the Styl fight, after finding the runes used for the summoning, he figured out that made with ink and used the fire sprinkler to wash them away and destroy his spell. I would say there was deduction and the use of the environment in that fight. Styl didn't use anyone summon and instead went with ordinary flames because he needed runes to Summon and Touma destroyed them all.

During the fake date, when the fight with the magician went to the construction yard, Touma used the cement dust to cover the opponent's dagger so it couldn't reflect light.

At the end of season one when he fought Sherry's, he remembered Index's magic lesson and removed the magic circle that protected Sherry from taking damage from her own spell.

Even if it isn't always apparent, Touma does study his opponent and look for weaknesses during the fight.

Season 2 of the anime dropped the ball in terms of explaining Touma's deduction and strategy like in the novels. I'll stop the wall of text here. I can provide further explanation for Touma's season 2 fights if you are curious.

[desrtsku]

Just too add to what RPG said, but I'm actually talking about the things about Touma's opponents rather than Touma himself.

Spoiler for long and slightly off topic:

Originally Posted by silvercover

another thing here is that while they may not know touma's power at first, they are given enough time in battle to see what he can do. sure they can be forgiven for not knowing its only on one of the arms, but for some of the examples where they do learn they end up somehow still going back to the previous failed attempt.

I'm pretty sure something like this never happened even once.

Originally Posted by silvercover

accel who learned that ranged attacks could work, but went back to melee?

He never learned that. He only learned that wind works and he was left in a situation where he couldn't use it anymore.

Originally Posted by silvercover

styl who was able to hold off him with his summon but uses ordinary flames again?

Something like this never happened either. He only fought him once in the anime, and in that situation he couldn't use his summon anymore because his runes were destroyed by the water. I'm not sure if you were just not attentive or didn't actually watch the anime or just forgot, but that was made as clear as distilled water back then.

Originally Posted by silvercover

thatguyfromhimegamiarc already "beat" touma with that memory erasure but doesnt go back to it?

Izzard's power is highly relying on his self confidence, his self confidence, his self confidence and more importantly his self confidence. And that leaves two dangerous weaknesses :
1. he has to scream out loud (for the sake of printing the image clearer in his head) what he's going to do. The instant he would shout "sleep" or "loses consciousness" Touma just has to touch his head before the effects takes place and he's safe = it's utterly pointless.
2. Touma already negated it, thus the thought of "successful memory erasure" (which isn't even memory erasure but just plain amnesia) or "Touma fainting" would be associated with "failure" in his mind = it will automatically fail due to Ars Magna's proprieties. That is the reason why he instantly tries to use completely different attacks when the previous one doesn't work and the same reason why the TouMad trick worked on him.

Originally Posted by silvercover

thatgirlfromdaihaiseisaifirstday was able to overcome touma with various usage of spells, but decides to use 1 whole spell for last? also she showed that she can melee.

And that's just plain wrong. For starters, she never overcame him with various spell usage per se, he negated all the spells that were directly aimed at him. What got him was indirect strikes based on faints and cheap tricks ... and that all-in-one spell you're talking about was just a hardcore version of those cheap tricks = because the other ones were too weak to knock him off, she had to use brute force.
For the other point, the melee that is : she already got punched by him once in melee fight, and literally sent her flying. Why would she try risking getting punched again? And it's ironic because you were the one who said it :

for some of the examples where they do learn they end up somehow still going back to the previous failed attempt.

"I got punched in close combat, but most of my tricks worked, however weaker ones aren't enough = I need to go with a more powerful trick! ... err, no I think I'll try CQC again, it didn't work the first time and it's pretty certain the guy is physically stronger than me, but it looks like that guy can only negate super powers so it must be the only way!"
I honestly think she's really smart and did the best move everytime. She's one of my favorite temporary antagonists for that reason.
Too bad the anime was crap and that the arc itself was pretty pointless due to the auto-resolution at the end.

[desrtsku]

No, it's not. We're clearly indirectly trying to prove how Touma VS Accel Railgun manga version was both good and plausible.

[Kenju of the Right]

Originally Posted by silvercover

what could have been done was had touma show off some more deduction and strategy where he outskills/outsmarts them. like he uses their powers against them, uses the environment to his advantage, etc.

That is literately how Touma wins most of his fights
it's his brains/creativity that helps him win

[Darkmousy0198]

IMO Toumas battles are more about his opponents then Touma himself. If Toumas opponent is a normal person with "average power lvl" he is usually weak enough for Touma to win. If however he fights someone with "monster power lvl" the opponent often has some mental issue that is suppose to balance it out and make it plausible for Touma to win. (If you find it plausible or not is up to you)

[desrtsku]

^ That's not the case though. As some people already pointed above, cases of his strong opponents having relevant mental issues are rare. Even the ones that were actually really "mad" during a duel still had the decency to adopt an effective strategy to counter IB.

And the cases where he fights normal people are mostly him running away, or using his brain when giving up isn't an option ... because unlike magicians and espers, normal people in this series have no issues with using weapons.

[Darkmousy0198]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

^ That's not the case though. As some people already pointed above, cases of his strong opponents having relevant mental issues are rare. Even the ones that were actually really "mad" during a duel still had the decency to adopt an effective strategy to counter IB.

And the cases where he fights normal people are mostly him running away, or using his brain when giving up isn't an option ... because unlike magicians and espers, normal people in this series have no issues with using weapons.

Certain someone with Black wings sure forgot how to counter it... or is that a case of "relevant mental issues"?

[allfictions]

Spoiler for Became too long, in reply to silvercover:

Originally Posted by silvercover

sure in story it would make sense due to various circumstances and such, like X character gets overcome by grief which gives the villains a shot at killing him. but it still doesnt negate how the other character could have won if they put more thoughts in it.

Try to analyze it more on the situation and not just watch it Kamachi's work is not your typical shounen fights where the stronger will win or the one with stronger will power will win
There are other aspects that affect the fight in Raildex universe. Such as the psychological aspects of the enemy. Their resolve and moral values.
It primarily works because Touma's enemies are more often than not good people who think doing this or that bad thing can achieve their goals. In a less idealistic 'verse, Kamijou would have been six feet under with either a bullet to the head or a body charred beyond recognition (except for his right hand, of course).

its good once in a while, but once almost every battle won is due to the enemy doing something/being stupid, it starts losing its taste. it especially loses some of its "epic" feeling when you realize the character never really got to be serious/fight all out or how the guy keeps on being lucky.

Re-read the fights I listed in my previous comment.

what could have been done was had touma show off some more deduction and strategy where he outskills/outsmarts them. like he uses their powers against them, uses the environment to his advantage, etc. so far its really just being "lucky" in blocking some the attacks(as we always see he still gets hit and is tossed around) and barreling through before an "epic" punch to the face that ends it.

You act as if all Touma needs to do is use his right hand, where half the battles that's not the only thing he needs.
Heck the VERY FIRST FIGHT with Stiyl should show you that even when his right-hand has been countered he can still come out with the win.

im perfectly fine with people helping touma out in battle, to add more diversity in the fights. it isnt amusing though if their purpose in battle is just to fall to show how strong the enemy is and to provide the opening for touma(by taking the hits sigh).

And when was the last time Touma EVER solo'd the arc's boss?
Vol1: Touma + Stiyl + Kanzaki VS Pen-dex
Vol2: Touma + Stiyl VS Aureolus Izzard
Vol3: Touma + Misaka Clones (Wnd Turbine manipulation to buy time, otherwise Accelerator would have fried Touma with the Plasma as Touma was still lying down) VS Accelerator
Vol4: Touma VS Tsuchimikado, and Touma lost.
Vol5: Yamisaka offed himself via Index's Grimoires, Touma was only the straw that broke the camel's back
Vol6: Touma + Anti-skill + Index + Kazakiri VS Sherry Cromwell
Vol7: Touma + Stiyl VS Tatemiya, then later Touma + Stiyl + Index + Amakusa Church VS Agnese Forces
Vol8: Touma didn't get into a fight.
Vol9-10: Touma + Stiyl + Tsuchimikado VS Oriana
Vol11: Touma + Agnese + Orsola VS Biagio
Vol12-13: Touma + Artificial Heaven VS Vento (she was taking constant damage with the AIM field frakking her up)

for accel who tried? I disagree there, it feels more like the reverse actually. he started off being ranged and was winning, then he went melee after being hit and is still sticking to melee which led to his loss.

Accelerator lost the fight due to overconfidence, denial that someone could bypass his power, Touma was predicting Accel's moves because he can't fight worth shit
, and the timely interference of the Misaka Imoutos utilizing the windmills to disrupt the flow of air.
I'm sorry but had Accel did his Plasma thing, they were all screwed, so no, it's not Idiot Ball there.

as for the nasuverse comparison, eh im not so keen with using that for this one.
gonna use spoiler for this since it talks about fate verse.

Spoiler:

one: kiritsugu is still a magi and has his own magic to fight. and there's also his usage of modern warfare which already gives him an edge as he's already a magi. your comparison would work better if kiritsugu either was normal and used weapons, or if he was a magi who only used his own brand of magic. he's diverse and really knows what to do.
two: we dont really get to see as much magi(as compared to other beings like death apostles, servants, etc.) focus to draw how good they normally would be. the closest we could try to draw for comparison of magus would be either keyneth or tokiomi, and tokiomi barely fought while already commented as exception among magi(as already seen he's one of the least douche). keyneth was pretty much prepared as he could be against kiritsugu with the little info(like him using guns) and was doing fine til kiritsugu pulled out his cards. then he tried to "smart" up by strengthening his barriers, which was in kiritsugus plans.

but the fact he didnt stick to pattern after being rebuffed shows that he learns, its just that kiritsugu did that intentionally.

three: I imagine your referencing rin beating caster in melee? well here rin fooled her, its different in that if rin was able to get in close without looking weak, caster would have teleported or been more careful. touma didnt fool anyone, or he at least didnt try to fool anyone i.e. he didnt have any plans or strategy.

one notable difference:
these characters who end up using the magus pride against them, knew beforehand what they were doing. touma has no idea he's making these people pissed off, hell he's trying to prove them how wrong this view is rather than using it to his advantage

1. The kind of magician that uses modern tools as part of their normal arsenal is the kind that has no faith in his or her (mostly her it seems) own power- in which case he/she is a half-assed magician and weak to began with.
Which Kiritsugu is. He doesn't see his magic as a goal, but as a means, that's why I mentionned him, not many magician are like him.

2. ''touma didnt fool anyone, or he at least didnt try to fool anyone i.e. he didnt have any plans or strategy.''
-Uses quick thinking to find a way to extinguish Innocentius`
-Uses quick thinking to return Ars Magna against Aureolus
-Uses quick thinking and remember a piece of info by Index concerning magic circles and uses it to counter Sherry
-Uses quick thinking to predicting that similar attacks of Oriana's Shorthand will not come from the same direction
But he didn't have any strategy, nope, not at all.

3. ''touma has no idea he's making these people pissed off, hell he's trying to prove them how wrong this view is rather than using it to his advantage''
Speaking of the Speech/Battles I like how most of them have some sort of twist:
-Izzard didn't let Touma a chance to talk
-Ouma simply got beat by having his mind poisoned by Index's books
-Sherry had multiple ideals. With Sherry having multiple beliefs, and Touma always getting a new belief. But as Touma said at the core of all her belief is just a single belief of her not wanting to lose her friend.
-Agnese pretty much self destructed
-Oriana's was pretty grey
-Biaggio was a lost cause so Touma didn't bother
-Vento's illusion was fake
-Although Terra had his illusion broken, he didn't change one bit
-Acqua of course wasn't having any of it
-Everyone had a hand in breaking Carrisa's illusion
-and Fiamma's was the grandest

another thing here is that while they may not know touma's power at first, they are given enough time in battle to see what he can do. sure they can be forgiven for not knowing its only on one of the arms, but for some of the examples where they do learn they end up somehow still going back to the previous failed attempt.

Actually Magicians would get just as easily confused with his ability, before him there's no such thing as a complete negation of their power, everything follows a theory and so they wasted concentration trying to figure it out.

styl who was able to hold off him with his summon but uses ordinary flames again?

Stiyl didn't use Innocentius because he thought it could counter Imagine Breaker; Stiyl used Innocentius because it was his Ace-in-the-hole, his strongest spell so him going back to normal flames isn't that surprising.

thatgirlfromdaihaiseisaifirstday was able to overcome touma with various usage of spells, but decides to use 1 whole spell for last? also she showed that she can melee.

He already figured out how her spell works, and that ''1 whole spell'' was a trump card managing to knock Touma out cold. And she became dispirited after Touma pointed out the flaws in her logic.

what id like to see is touma overcome the disadvantage, not the enemy tripping on their own feet.

Except that's all he always do.
Seriously, if you can't even understand that then you will never understand why Touma kept on winning against all odds.

[ACertainStark]

Originally Posted by Shinhwa

All these walls of text doesn't make me want to read them D:...

tl;dr - touma uses more than his right hand; psychological battles; his so called plot-armor has been dead for a while; team-battles all day every day.

[Goldzero]

Originally Posted by ACertainStark

tl;dr - touma uses more than his right hand; psychological battles; his so called plot-armor has been dead for a while; team-battles all day every day.

kamijou plot armor is a bit over-exaggerated but its pretty much strong still. after-all some fans have even speculated accelerator might be stronger seeing the shit he survived in could be considered several time worse. still im not saying accelerator is stronger but there has been a few fans who comes up with very compelling argument as to why kamijou is a bit exaggerated and how accelerator stronger in terms of plot armor. none of the less their plot armor doesn't really bother me seeing how amazing these two are(top 3 fav characters).

[lazydoggamer]

I always found it funny how people complain about Touma's plot armor but nobody complains about Hamazura's plot armor

[silvercover]

too many posts so im not going to directly copy them, il just address them by poster.

@RPG_Fanatic
il concede on some parts of that, I guess the anime either didnt show it properly or im not remembering events correctly(its been a long time).

@desrtsku
for accel, its not just those wind attacks. he was throwing touma around with those steel bars/containers as well as ground attacks.
for styl, il admit I forgot about that part of his seals being taken off.
for izzard, how his powers worked sort of confused me at the time in the past as im not sure of all its mechanics and quirks so il concede this part.
for that girl, she still did manage to throw him around a bit with the spells. maybe if she was running out on spells id understand the usage of all at the same time...
il give this to the novels since they probably did show and explain how the spells were minor(anime didnt really say if they were weak spells or if they were serious types).

@Kenju of the Right
not so sure with that really. maybe a couple more than I thought but a lot of them dont have him making any plans/goals with how to defeat them, just the plain old dispel whatever is in front of him to get close.

let me propose a guy in series for a proper example of that: shiage hamazura. from what ive glimpsed, he manage to beat a strong opponent by using their pride and outsmarting them.

part of this problem is probably inherent from the very nature of touma's power. its really too OP by itself, so to compensate for the story its limited to just 1 hand and it only works on supernatural.
but its still pretty OP, its kind of "last boss" type of power, where all the good guys powers cant harm the villain no matter how powerful since he'll just negate it. then that would be where they try to find some way around that to beat him.

@allfictions
yeah morals and conviction... about that... let me just say that a couple of the villains seem to have not only have pretty poor reasons, they're also a bit too easily broken. yes their reason would be flimsy, but because it is flimsy they ought to have some more resolve on it, otherwise it wouldnt have flown this long as someone/something else could have changed their minds before. mostly talking about S2 here, cause in S1 styl and kanzaki were fooled and ultimately was doing it for index, izzard was messed up in the head, etzali love and stuff, his dad didnt know, etc. examples im referring would be thatgirlfromdaihaiseisai and vento.

as for the rest il just concede here, been long time since I saw S1.
but just to add thanks to your posts, it proved that touma isnt doing it all by himself. while you have provided me reason to see he's not quite as just being lucky and enemies being stupid(such as the izzard example, I though he wasnt trying anything on touma), you have proved he didnt win by himself.

now if only those fans stop saying he's so good at the fights... he's still proven that he has some deduction but they really ought to stop saying touma's that good against anything supernatural.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by lazydoggamer

I always found it funny how people complain about Touma's plot armor but nobody complains about Hamazura's plot armor

Cause Hamazura is awesome... he doesn't need plot armor when he has a loli barrier surrounding him.

While many people mistakenly say that Touma just won against Accelerator with his right hand, they fail to mention that even in his rage Accelerator noticed that it isn't just the right hand and fighting skill that's helping Touma. He's the only character who has openly acknowledged Touma's

Spoiler for Touma:

Esper Power

which I will not go further into even behind spoilers in this thread since it is a huge spoiler tbh. But this is a big deal here. It's not just plot armor or hax it's Touma using everything he has to win.

[Kenju of the Right]

@silvercover
replied here since its getting off track
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...64#post4859064

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

He's the only character who has openly acknowledged Touma's

Spoiler for Touma:

Esper Power

Nope, need I explain why this is false?

[desrtsku]

@silvercover the same thread as Kenju.

Originally Posted by Darkmousy0198

Certain someone with Black wings sure forgot how to counter it... or is that a case of "relevant mental issues"?

I can't tell if it's trollbait or a genuine complaint. But I'll answer anyway.

Tried analysing how Touma fights and assumed he can cancel things with his right hand only. Tried long distance attacks and avoided getting close, tried attacking in multiple directions at once so he can't block it with his right hand, etc.

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Nope, need I explain why this is false?

Umm yes please, but please do so in the LN thread since it Railgun hasn't even come close to this area.