2009-01-28, 14:37 | Link #18101 | ||||
U Mad?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Brooklyn NY
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Hee hee now I'm blushing Quote:
Kallen was a terrorist, then she became a soldier. Assuming she could have accepted Lelouch bombing those old guys in the sub, Euphie and Shirley + when she learned the truth of ZR she seemed to have forgiven him for hitting her friends with a Volcano. Its not that hard to see that Kallen could accept "The ends justify the means" In fact I think it's 60-40 she would have accepted it if (AND only him) Lelouch explained how he would bring the world peace by creating a monster role. Not even lying to her. If he flat out told her the truth. Though obviously Kallen would have wanted to limit as much casualties as possible. Which probably would have made ZR unrealistic. By the end Suzaku and Lelouch had no qualms about the number of lives lost on the battlefield. And most likely she wouldn't have been down with Lelouch wanting to kill himself. Unlike Suzaku I don't think she would have accepted living on and having Lelouch be the only one to die. She probably would have insisted on dying with him. Yeah it's hard to know what she would have done....I may be down to 55-45 actually Quote:
Seriously though there couldn't be more visual cues for there to show that Lelouch felt something during that kiss. It leads me to believe either people gloss over subtext, do not believe in the existence of subtlety, or are ignoring things because it's convenient. Apparently Lelouch had to forget what was going on around him and grab Kallen's ass before some people would even consider that they were really close. Quote:
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2009-01-28, 15:04 | Link #18102 | |
Banned
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Now it is my turn to blush. {i blush in canon? |DD} But yeah, i see him as her Pygmalion. It actually sounds romantic which serves me well. |DD;; Oh about that, i did not make it clear. When i said "emotions" i meant all those quality-emotions {even romantic love as well} that made her love him. And it was really hard for her to "let go" and push away her feelings, it still was {you can see her crying before she fries his ass, and btw, that was not "revenge" feeling a lot of people said back then. Revenge does not trigger tears, love does, especially when it is this kind of love.} even in the moment in #24, but at some point i think the theme after their kiss was "we might as well be strangers", with the "syaonara" and stuff. And Kallen's principles were in conflict with her feelings, but she had to go with the principles in the end. {not literally "end", i do not mean finale, you get it} |
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2009-01-28, 15:35 | Link #18103 |
differently sober
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 41
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well, thanks for your interesting thoughts, guys, you actually made me feel less depressed about the poem. Now blush you both! =P
In detail... @yvj: I particulary liked how you put the argument of 'she sensed ZR even if she cannot know that by that time'. @sky: lol you really renamed for nothing my dear XD I completely agree with the fact that the non-romantic impact Lelouch had on Kallen's life is equally big, but it is frequently overlooked - btw this was also my main reason for not being fond of this character development for her and of the pairing. |
2009-01-28, 16:36 | Link #18104 | |
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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I just find it funny that one could argue that she wasn't the first one to fall in love, but that's just for fun. |
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2009-01-28, 17:05 | Link #18105 | ||
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Lelouch > Naoto. We probably all saw it coming. Lelouch is just too awesome. xD Quote:
And I see what Levy means. Of course the connection there can not be denied - it's rather questionable if Kallen would have fallen for Lelouch that way if it hadn't been for Zero -, but Kallen's development in season one could very well stand on its own.
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2009-01-28, 17:20 | Link #18106 |
Metal Gear!?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa
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Kallen's bond with Lelouch could have stayed based on loyalty, admiration etc. I would have been fine with that. When the staff developed Kallen's character romantically, I thought it was an understandable/logical way to develop her that way. They didn't need another love interest since there were already two possible candidates to handle that. I find their relationship to be truly beautiful to my eyes.
Lelouch did become her world as even noted even during turn 21. She needed an answer from Lelouch since she knew she couldn't move on otherwise. Well, Lelouch and Kallen are quite similar to one another. Similar reasons for initial starting fighting, how important people in the past are and always putting others ahead of themselves. Not surprised they had such a strong bond without spending much time together.
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Last edited by SonOfHeaven; 2009-01-28 at 19:09. Reason: grammar |
2009-01-28, 17:22 | Link #18107 |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Uhm... I really wouldn't call the old Kallen "nothing", but I'm not going to argue over semantics.
Even if I would probably be somewhat of a Naoto fangirl if we had actually gotten to see him in R2. xD But I'll at least mention that Kallen's ideals weren't worthless even without Lelouch. Just hopeless. And that's not the same, because, as I see it, Naoto was important.
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2009-01-28, 18:11 | Link #18108 | |
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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This is not really life where hopeless ideals can amount to something, in this very fictional specific situation, her ideals would have amounted to nothing. They had no hope and no real form. |
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2009-01-28, 22:13 | Link #18109 | |
[Your] clan on Steam
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And besides, opposite does attract, and we do know that's always the case in anime Another thing that I see in Kallen is that she won't really agree with ZR if she knew. Yes, she might be told that it's for the bigger picture. But Kallen is always a girl that has a simple view on thing. If the plan sounds too complicated, she wouldn't agree on it, as she will be convinced that there would be a better simpler plan. |
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2009-01-28, 22:57 | Link #18110 | |
_(:q 」∠)_ _(ФωФ*」∠)_
Artist
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Very nice analysis! A lot of people think that Kallen was dumb as bricks toward the end of the series, but I always felt that her reaction was called for when she thought she and Lelouch were no longer on the same side. I never took it as a "WOE, HE DOESN'T LOVE ME" reaction, and honestly.. I thought it was obvious that it wasn't like that at all. When people were bashing her left and right for being 'butthurt heartbroken love interest,' I couldn't quite grasp it. As for me, I did think Kallen would have stopped ZR from happening, but I guess I was wrong. It makes me wonder how it would've played out had she actually participated in it. |
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2009-01-29, 12:24 | Link #18111 |
Puppet Master
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Behind You
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Why did Kallen end up living in an apartment when her father had a nice mansion in the Britannian settlement? Did she hate her father that much that she didn't want anything to do with him? It seems odd that she is more attached to her mother than her dad when girls usually are the opposite...
Besides, w/o her there be no Japan since the BK's would have been defeated. She single-handedly killed hundreds of knights, one would think a hero like her would get at least a decent house or something from the gov't. Ougi sure as hell wasn't living in a humble 1 bedroom apartment, least he could do was give his old friend's sis a nice crib
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2009-01-29, 12:33 | Link #18112 | ||
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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2009-01-29, 13:13 | Link #18113 | |
differently sober
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italy
Age: 41
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2009-01-29, 18:11 | Link #18114 | |
Metal Gear!?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa
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2009-01-29, 19:22 | Link #18115 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Don't misunderstand, I would have liked to see something like that too,...but by now I don't think it was completely and absolutely necessary for her father to show up. Season one didn't really focus on his existence, outside of being mentioned a couple of times, and it is questionable whether the story would have demanded his presence. He was already treated as an absent father, not someone who was on top of things. Maybe he would have assumed a larger role, maybe not. I imagine that Kallen's background could have received more attention, but this could still be done without making her father an important character who had to show up on-screen. It would have been nice though. As for why Kallen isn't living in a mansion at the end of R2...well, it's not unheard of for young adults to want more independence. Kallen isn't pretending to be weak at school now...and in fact, she seems to be taking care of her mother too. I can't really imagine that Kallen's evil stepmother would want to have someone convicted for Refrain offenses around the main house, much less someone who she doesn't even like. What happened to her father then? I don't know, but then again we never knew much about him to begin with. |
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2009-01-29, 19:34 | Link #18116 | ||
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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Her father's role can be easily justified by whatever his work is, he could have been a KoR for example. If he appears in front of Kallen, instead of her sitting around for 8 episodes we could have had her have to fight against her will. It could have brought about more development for her, her father, and even Lelouch. Quote:
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2009-01-29, 20:10 | Link #18117 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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2009-01-29, 20:40 | Link #18118 | ||
No Eyes
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Dirac Sea
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As for ZR, I doubt it would have changed her role. It would, probably have made certain "romancy" things from Lelouch's end possibly clearer or at least her conclusion a bit more clear/conclusive... or, even more likely, it would have given us a true bittersweet wartime-drama ending. Quote:
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2009-01-30, 19:46 | Link #18119 | |
Banned
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I could only see this, if they blackmailed her with her mother or something on this account and still, really difficult. Even if that was on the original script, i find it really hard to buy it. S1 #13, pretty much established, that Kallen would go forward with Zero no matter what. I don't think how a papa-storyline would fit in. {not dismissing any info/not, just if that ever happened, i know i would be "so OOC for her".} |
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