To Aru Majutsu no Index - Episode 19 Discussion / Poll

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Desuyone~ Yet for some reason, people invented capital punishment though.

The reason you're looking for doesn't go any further then 'revenge.'

That's why there's also a reason many countries don't have capital punishment anymore. No matter how you twist and turn it, capital punishment is murder all the same. Those who agree with the punishment of a person by death are really no better then Accelerator.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

And considering his age and his motive, it is even less of a laughing matter.

Look at the bigger picture though. He's had people trying to kill him all his life, wouldn't you jump at any chance to change that?

Secondly, he's had people of his own government tell him that it was 'all right' judging by Mikoto's age when she was tricked into partaking into the experiment, it's easy to assume Accelerator was told this in a similar age. This means he's had lots of people constantly telling him that 'killing expendable clones for the sake of never being attacked again is all right' through much of his childhood.

That does wonders for screwing up a persons psyche.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

And as long as he remains alive, you don't know when he will do it again.

He didn't kill the punks who attacked him after the experiment ended, now did he? Wouldn't have taken him more then a second to kill them all, conveniently lying around them as they were. He killed because he was told to do so. Now that he's no longer told to do so, he no longer has a reason to do so. Do note that even the special ops who went to kill him as a kid weren't killed either, despite pulling guns on him.

He's more like a soldier then a psychotic murderer. He kills when ordered, but without orders he doesn't kill.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Atonement? If only every massacre/heavy crimes could be settled by just that...

They should. Just killing the person who did it doesn't solve anything. Let them do manual labor, use their money for helping people. Let them pay for their crimes. Killing them doesn't solve anything, it just adds another corpse to the list.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Nope. We'd have a dead Last Order.

Without Accelerator, they wouldn't have found her, much less killed her. All Misaka's would have gone berserk, and a worldwide indiscriminate bloodbath would have occurred.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Besides, Accelerator didn't do everything to save the world, he did everything to save some loli he met the other day.

Even if that is true, he saved the world in the progress.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

1. Me

I'll admit that despite my moral view on the death sentence, as a viewer of anime to see the bad guy bite the bullet and die can be most satisfying. >:3 Accelerator has just too much of a victim vibe (what with the while childhood/killing supported and encouraged by the government thing) for me to make it worthwhile though.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

2. If everything should be logical, Mikoto and everyone else who should be enraged over his massacre.

Explain how it helps them. As it stands now, Accelerators life saved 9989 Misaka's -counting the chibi- and an unknown, but by no means smaller amount of other people.

His death would have solved nothing. If everything should be logical, as you put it, it wouldn't take away any of the pain they felt, nor would it quench the hatred towards Accelerator. Nothing would change, aside from the fact that a few days later, Mikoto would feel even more pain as she received news of the insanity and the death of all her sisters.

Now, I'm not saying this clears him of his crime. It doesn't. His crime of killing thousands will stick to him forever. But alive, he has a chance to repay for his sins, to help the Misaka's and anyone else affected by his actions. He can't do this when he's dead.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Those who agree with the punishment of a person by death are really no better then Accelerator.

Iya, even if they agree, you might consider them a bad person or a "murderer" (like Accelerator), but even then, a murderer is "better" than a "mass murderer".

Originally Posted by Keroko

He didn't kill the punks who attacked him after the experiment ended, now did he? Wouldn't have taken him more then a second to kill them all, conveniently lying around them as they were. He killed because he was told to do so. Now that he's no longer told to do so, he no longer has a reason to do so. Do note that even the special ops who went to kill him as a kid weren't killed either, despite pulling guns on him.

It feels like that he didn't kill the punks because he found it too bothersome. Heck, you see that he just didn't care what he was doing.
Yes, he was killed because he was told to do so, but he was the one who agreed to the experiment to kill people in the first place.
That would require a bit more telling of his thoughts when he was a child to say anything. We don't exactly see the entire picture, given a few flashbacks and nothing on what he thought back then.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Without Accelerator, they wouldn't have found her, much less killed her. All Misaka's would have gone berserk, and a worldwide indiscriminate bloodbath would have occurred.

Again, that is a probability thing. We have no way of knowing if Last Order would have been found or not (by either person).

Originally Posted by Keroko

Explain how it helps them. As it stands now, Accelerators life saved 9989 Misaka's -counting the chibi- and an unknown, but by no means smaller amount of other people.

His death would have solved nothing. If everything should be logical, as you put it, it wouldn't take away any of the pain they felt, nor would it quench the hatred towards Accelerator. Nothing would change, aside from the fact that a few days later, Mikoto would feel even more pain as she received news of the insanity and the death of all her sisters.

Mmm~, I mean that it would help that as, you know, getting revenge. Of course, I say this from my point of view, and the very good people named Mikoto and Touma probably wouldn't want his death. Then we have the whole little thing of the emptiness of revenge and whatever shown in various anime, etc. etc...

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Iya, even if they agree, you might consider them a bad person or a "murderer" (like Accelerator), but even then, a murderer is "better" than a "mass murderer".

Murder is murder. Just because someone has murdered less does not make them 'better' in any way.

The main difference is not the number, but the thought behind it. For example, if a sniper shoots a criminal to save a hostage, then the intent was not so much to 'kill the criminal' but more 'save the hostage' the reason behind the kill is not a selfish one.

Accelerator's intent was 'I want people to stop bothering me' which is a pretty damn selfish reason, thus classifying it as a 'crime.' By the same logic, people who execute a criminal do so out of 'revenge' which by all accounts, counts as a crime as well (after all, many murderers on death row killed people out of revenge). It's one of those awkward social loopholes. Because the death was decided in court, the revenge suddenly becomes all right. But if someone would have grabbed a weapon and killed the murderer on their own, they suddenly find themselves on death row.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

It feels like that he didn't kill the punks because he found it too bothersome. Heck, you see that he just didn't care what he was doing.

But he didn't kill them, which is the point I'm trying to make. Accelerator killed because he was told to do so, and doesn't kill when he's not told to do so. So the risk of him 'doing it again' as you put it, doesn't exist. Heck, he even let the Mad Doc live.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Yes, he was killed because he was told to do so, but he was the one who agreed to the experiment to kill people in the first place.

And I'm not disagreeing with that. That is his crime, and he should live with that fact, and do something to help the lives of those who remain.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

That would require a bit more telling of his thoughts when he was a child to say anything. We don't exactly see the entire picture, given a few flashbacks and nothing on what he thought back then.

So far we've only seen him disarm his enemies as a child, we don't see him kill them.

Regardless, even if he did kill people as a child -which would have been out of self defense I might add- then you could even throw in a noble ring at his agreeing to the plan. Becoming a Level 6 would end the cycle of people attacking him, thus ending the killing.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Again, that is a probability thing. We have no way of knowing if Last Order would have been found or not (by either person).

The Mad Doc. was keeping tabs on her, whereas the lab had lost her. Advantage; Mad Doc.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Mmm~, I mean that it would help that as, you know, getting revenge. Of course, I say this from my point of view, and the very good people named Mikoto and Touma probably wouldn't want his death. Then we have the whole little thing of the emptiness of revenge and whatever shown in various anime, etc. etc...

We are looking at an anime with a positive message after all... Though this does make me wonder, is there an anime out there where a hero gets revenge and actually enjoys it?

Would make for a fun change after all this time.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Murder is murder. Just because someone has murdered less does not make them 'better' in any way.

Indeed, but as a crime, killing one does not equal mass murder, is what I was trying to suggest. In that way, that person would be "better" (less heavy crime might be a better wording). Of course, if you kill people, you've killed people.

Originally Posted by Keroko

We are looking at an anime with a positive message after all... Though this does make me wonder, is there an anime out there where a hero gets revenge and actually enjoys it?

Would make for a fun change after all this time.

Mmm... I could have sworn there was one or two... Personally can't think of any out of the top of my head though...

[kagato3]

My take on it is there is someone that hates Accelerator for killing the Sisters and that is Accelerator. Remember up untill a few days/weeks ago The sisters thought of themselves as one person. They seemed to not care in the least if one of them dies as every one of them knows everything that all the others do, Last Order even more so since she is the network hub, and even then they didn't see themsleves as one person with a lot of bodies since they didn't even see themself as a person.

From Last Order's perspective Accelerator, who knows about the network, tries to scare them into not fighting before the fight, and to be honest the sisters all started the fights, it doesn't work, kills them brutaly, repeat.

[coolasj19]

Ive been watching this for the last couple of days and finally had to post something. I paused the video in shock as I realized that he killed over 10 thousand PEOPLE. Not machines or just clones. But, People. I always knew that each one was a person. But , not each with a separate consciousness and everything. That literally shocked me for a good 2 minutes. It was really good so see this guy really try to redeem himself in some sort of way. I guess I can see how much of a crappy life he has. Thugs attacking him even though nothing has changed. Which , Yes, He does have the right to break every bone in their body. And him not being able to do anything about his F'd up apartment. It was very chilling to hear MISAKA MISAKA Just rip him a new one mentally. And personally I think they are some of the best characters ever.

End note : I don't know why this board was so hard on this series. I notice a strong 7 rating tendency. I thought at the very least it deserved an 8 or 9 mean.