Anime DVD/BD Sales in Japan: Discussion

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Zephuros

What's that 7,649? (Total sales? Debut week sales?) and also for one volume (first disc?) or the whole BD/DVD..? (kinda confuse on how to read the numbers..)

'K' *2,021+*5,628=*7,649 (7, not including preview) (GoHands) << what's the 2k and 5k and 7k? DVD, BD, and then total sales? total sales for umm.. what? (i know it's a stupei question, I just don't know how to look at this...
2012/11/07 *2,084 Vol. 1 (One episode)
[etc.]
<Blu-ray>
2012/11/07 *6,926 Vol. 1

The first number is the average number of DVDs sold per volume; the second is the average for Blu-ray discs. Adding those together gives an average for total disc scales per volume of 7,649.

Opening week sales do not appear here; all these figures are per volume. The number of episodes per volume varies, usually between two and four.

The ratio of BD to DVD sales gives you an idea whether women are in the audience. Japanese men, especially otaku men, are more likely to own BD players than women. Shows with a high ratio of BD to DVD sales are usually shows that appeal more to men. In contrast, look at these figures a recent installment of the Hakuoki franchise:

Hakuouki Reimeiroku *3,818+*1,349=*5,167 (6) (Studio Deen/Sentei Filmworks)

Hakuoki is based on a series of otome games about a young woman who becomes involved with bishounen versions of the famous Shinsengumi. The story is a "reverse harem" with a central female protagonist surrounded by a bevy of attractive men. This installment, the fourth I believe, sold more than twice as many DVDs as BDs.

[Zephuros]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The ratio of BD to DVD sales gives you an idea whether women are in the audience. Japanese men, especially otaku men, are more likely to own BD players than women. Shows with a high ratio of BD to DVD sales are usually shows that appeal more to men. In contrast, look at these figures a recent installment of the

wow! I didn't know about this o_O!!
(I thought buying BD or DVD at japan depends on how much you would invest for anime/games)
I see... yes, I know about Hakuoki (and obviously it's for the female audience)
but I haven't thought about the numbers!
Thank you ><!

------
edit:
oh.. um.... wait...
so the K anime had more male audience.......? what..................lol"???? (isn't it supposed to be for the girls? I mean from the looks of its PV... and my female friends are fangirl-ing all over this anime and pairings and what not lol")
or there's just some exceptions in some cases..lol" (like this one)

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by Zephuros

wow! I didn't know about this o_O!!
(I thought buying BD or DVD at japan depends on how much you would invest for anime/games)
I see... yes, I know about Hakuoki (and obviously it's for the female audience)
but I haven't thought about the numbers!
Thank you ><!

so the K anime had more male audience.......? what..................lol"???? (isn't it supposed to be for the girls? I mean from the looks of its PV... and my female friends are fangirl-ing all over this anime and pairings and what not lol")
or there's just some exceptions in some cases..lol" (like this one)

This used to be very common prior to 2011 with the hit Tiger and Bunny, which led to more BD sales than DVD sales for a female-oriented show. Since then, it's more likely that shows which have an equal amount sold on DVD appeal to women more than men as the audience is split between the formats. Shows that are targeted towards men will have a vast majority be BD sales compared to DVD. K pushed sales towards BDs, but was still female-targetted for the most part, showing that DVD-female, BD-male isn't always true now.

In short, as with sales, it's more complicated than what people try to condense it down to. Take each series separately.

[SeijiSensei]

Are these more the exceptions, though?

Browsing through the figures for 2012, most shows have larger BD sales than DVD sales, and for some shows like Girls und Panzer the ratio is huge (34,000 BD to 1,500 DVD). Kuroko no Basuke which apparently had a large female following has a much more even ratio with 13,000 DVDs to about 11,000 BDs.

I'm not proposing this as a hard and fast rule, but there is some truth to the notion that a higher DVD/BD ratio => more female viewers.

[Ithekro]

Recently, some BD have different special feature compared to the DVDs. In the case of Space Battleship Yamato 2199, the BD comes with English subtitles while the DVD does not.

Also the BD are either Region A (Japan and the Americas) or Region Free (everyone), while the DVDs are Region 2 (Japan and part of Europe). So when a show has international appeal without a known local release, the BD will sell more. (Space Battleship Yamato 2199's BD are Region Free)

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Are these more the exceptions, though?

Browsing through the figures for 2012, most shows have larger BD sales than DVD sales, and for some shows like Girls und Panzer the ratio is huge (34,000 BD to 1,500 DVD). Kuroko no Basuke which apparently had a large female following has a much more even ratio with 13,000 DVDs to about 11,000 BDs.

I'm not proposing this as a hard and fast rule, but there is some truth to the notion that a higher DVD/BD ratio => more female viewers.

There is some truth to that notion, but there's still a lot of DVD buyers who have finally switched over to BD in the past two years. This year has seen 3 shows with a big female fanbase all sell more BDs than DVDs (UtaPri, Shingeki, and Free!). I highly doubt that the male fanbase is pushing those ratios higher in favor of BDs. In a couple of years, we may see everything sell much more BDs than DVDs and then this notion falls apart.

Also, some shows sell BDs with all the LE goods and only a RE DVD (like the GaruPan example you gave, explaining the vast disparity) while others sell a LE DVD (like Magi or Free!). Those shows have lower BD-to-DVD ratios (though BD is still favored). Like I said, it's better to just focus on the show itself rather than try and fit it into a general category.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Are these more the exceptions, though?

Browsing through the figures for 2012, most shows have larger BD sales than DVD sales, and for some shows like Girls und Panzer the ratio is huge (34,000 BD to 1,500 DVD). Kuroko no Basuke which apparently had a large female following has a much more even ratio with 13,000 DVDs to about 11,000 BDs.

I'm not proposing this as a hard and fast rule, but there is some truth to the notion that a higher DVD/BD ratio => more female viewers.

The three examples of female-targetted shows provided are interesting:

Kuroko no Basuke: Blu-Ray and DVD LE are the same, but the DVD is 1000 yen cheaper

K: DVDs and BDs are exactly the same price

Tiger & Bunny: The DVD is barebones, and there's only a Blu-Ray version of the LE


(Starting writing this before the latest post so I'll look up the new examples...)


Edit:

UtaPri: DVD & Blu-Ray exactly the same price

Shingeki: DVD is the same, but 1000 yen cheaper

Free: DVD is the same, but 1000 yen cheaper


(So, in total, half of the examples have special cases that may influence buying habits.)

[Archaeon]

Anyone know about TWGOK sales?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Archaeon

Anyone know about TWGOK sales?

See the Sales Thread, but it really didn't do very well on BD/DVD at any point, and the recent season didn't really do anything to change that either way (it follows directly in line with the sales from the previous two seasons, following the usual gradual slope over time). However, it does seem to be doing reasonably well on the CD/concert front. My guess would be that we'll see more OAD episodes in the future.

[ultimatemegax]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

See the Sales Thread, but it really didn't do very well on BD/DVD at any point, and the recent season didn't really do anything to change that either way (it follows directly in line with the sales from the previous two seasons, following the usual gradual slope over time). However, it does seem to be doing reasonably well on the CD/concert front. My guess would be that we'll see more OAD episodes in the future.

I'd expect more OAD episodes with CDs myself. The OAD episodes were funded solely by Shogakukun, and I doubt the manga needs more promotion and/or attraction of new fans may have peaked with anime promotion. They could invest their money elsewhere and get a better return.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by ultimatemegax

I'd expect more OAD episodes with CDs myself. The OAD episodes were funded solely by Shogakukun, and I doubt the manga needs more promotion and/or attraction of new fans may have peaked with anime promotion. They could invest their money elsewhere and get a better return.

The OADs themselves were produced by Shogakukan, but the music was produced in collaboration with TV Tokyo and Geneon (along with Shogakukan's own Music & Digital Entertainment division), with CD Singles timed to release at around the same time. So not sure how the internal financials worked, but the OADs were probably as much to push CD sales as they were to push the manga itself. I think they could probably do the same thing going forward. (Looking at the disc, it looks like the other producers were listed under Planning Cooperation. And actually, Geneon got the 制作 credit, with Shogakukan as 製作.)

[Flower]

To be honest I would not be surprised for more TWGOK OADs simply because of the time skip between s2 and s3 - prolly a fair number of folks would like to see what happened in between the two, esp those who follow the manga. What they have released so far that both held and deviated to the manga story line so far though ... I am not sure of their success per se, but producing them would be more inexpensive than airing a whole new season, I'd guess.....

[AmeNoJaku]

I decided to go through the list and was quite surprised at sales of some TV anime...

Spoiler for above 5,000:

55,693 Shingeki no Kyojin
44,857 Monogatari Series Second Season
33,055 Uta no☆Prince-sama♪ Maji LOVE 2000%
30,333 Free!
27,541 Love Live!
26,601 Infinite Stratos 2
19,679 Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken
16,870 Toaru Kagaku no Railgun S
15,978 Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai.
11,400 Hataraku Maou-sama!
10,012 Yahari Ore no Seishun Rabu Kome wa Machigatteiru.
9,706 Initial D Fifth Stage (PPV)
9,366 Senki Zesshou Symphogear G
9,357 High School DxD NEW
8,876 Suisei no Gargantia
8,400 Date A Live
7,358 Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai NEXT
7,224 BROTHERS CONFLICT
7,146 Magi - The Labyrinth of Magic
7,077 Kiniro Mosaic
7,023 Fate/Kaleid liner Prisma☆Illya
6,638 Vividred Operation
5,689 Kakumeiki Valverave
…

I was expecting Shingeki no Kyojin to sell well, since it is both approachable from different market pools, but to sell 50+k copies was totally unexpected. Monogatari Series is holding strong despite the source material diverted its attention from the two most popular (in the anime) characters. Then we get two fujoshi anime, which have been ignored by most studios in favor of countless ecchi anime that follow.

As for the worst sales...

Spoiler for below 1,000:

…
,959 NARUTO Shippuuden
,893 Fantasista Doll
,882 Galilei Donna
,857 Genshiken Nidaime
,774 Danball Senki Wars
,715 Genei wo Kakiru Taiyou
,695 Hayate no Gotoku! Cuties
,687 Kitaku-bu Katsudou Kiroku
,613 Medaka Box Abnormal
,543 Kami-sama no Inai Nichiyoubi
,432 Cardfight!! Vanguard
,412 Inu to Hasami wa Tsukaiyou
,412 Futari wa Milky Holmes
,351 Mushibugyou
,350 Meitantei Conan
,312 Aku no Hana
,304 Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge
,248 Stella Jogakuin Koutou-ka C3-bu

The long running TV anime are expected here, but several NoitaminA, GAINAX and the comeback of GONZO should tell something about how their "alternative" approach to the audience is perceived. Also there are several sequels that changed staff and plummeted their sales.

[Sheba]

Woah, Jojo is still hanging on. That's cool to see!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

As for the worst sales...

Spoiler for below 1,000:

…
,959 NARUTO Shippuuden
,893 Fantasista Doll
,882 Galilei Donna
,857 Genshiken Nidaime
,774 Danball Senki Wars
,715 Genei wo Kakiru Taiyou
,695 Hayate no Gotoku! Cuties
,687 Kitaku-bu Katsudou Kiroku
,613 Medaka Box Abnormal
,543 Kami-sama no Inai Nichiyoubi
,432 Cardfight!! Vanguard
,412 Inu to Hasami wa Tsukaiyou
,412 Futari wa Milky Holmes
,351 Mushibugyou
,350 Meitantei Conan
,312 Aku no Hana
,304 Dansai Bunri no Crime Edge
,248 Stella Jogakuin Koutou-ka C3-bu

I think that Fantasista Doll and Genei were probably hurt a bit by going head-to-head with Prisma ILLYA, which had more clear-cut magical girl genre appeal.

In addition to this, Fantastista Doll really did feel to me like it was meant for a young girl audience (i.e. girls between 7 and 13). It's a subtle different that's hard to put into words, but as a seasoned anime viewer I can kinda tell that Love Live! and K-On! are meant for adult males, whereas Fantastista Doll was just missing something that would make it feel that way to me (not enough clear moe sex appeal, maybe?)

Genei's artstyle might have hurt it.

Galilei Donna was a bit of a mess, so I'm not surprised it sold poorly. KKK had cute character designs, but was probably too 4Koma-esque in its presentation (I suspect that much the same thing probably undermined Nichijou some time ago).

I think most of us here knows what hurt Aku no Hana.

I'm kind of surprised that Milky Holmes sold so poorly. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but wasn't Milky Holmes pretty big at one time?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that Fantasista Doll and Genei were probably hurt a bit by going head-to-head with Prisma ILLYA, which had more clear-cut magical girl genre appeal.

Not really. Sales aren't really affected by that. Prisma ILLYA was more or less fine because of TM being in there, so it has a large target audience.

Fantasista Doll and Genei weren't exactly praised. In fact, in 2ch, it was more or less the laughing stock, especially FD.

I'm kind of surprised that Milky Holmes sold so poorly. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but wasn't Milky Holmes pretty big at one time?

MH third season was just bad. It is a bit similar how Hayate no Gotoku franchise keep plummeting, but not as strong as the latter (at least, MH didn't have an atrocious visuals/animation dive).

[AmeNoJaku]

GAINAX is more of a dissappointment in my eyes, all anime they put out since Panty and Stocking have sold below 1000 copies. I mean they were not good, but also not <1k bad

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Galilei Donna was a bit of a mess, so I'm not surprised it sold poorly. KKK had cute character designs, but was probably too 4Koma-esque in its presentation (I suspect that much the same thing probably undermined Nichijou some time ago).

I think most of us here knows what hurt Aku no Hana.

I think that getting stuck in NoitaminA hurt them a lot too, since they had to pretend to be artistic and accessible to the general public, making some really bad decision during planning. And in any case, mainstream TV time will usually hurt sales.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm kind of surprised that Milky Holmes sold so poorly. Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but wasn't Milky Holmes pretty big at one time?

Originally Posted by Klashikari

MH third season was just bad. It is a bit similar how Hayate no Gotoku franchise keep plummeting, but not as strong as the latter (at least, MH didn't have an atrocious visuals/animation dive).

HnG looked really awful (not as bad as AnH, but still a lot worse than the first and second seasons). MH on the other hand, had lost its freshness, and while the changes could work on paper, they definitely didn't on screen.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Not really. Sales aren't really affected by that. Prisma ILLYA was more or less fine because of TM being in there, so it has a large target audience.

I am of the same opinion on this. Though I hear that that the second series' story is a lot more involving.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Not really. Sales aren't really affected by that.

I disagree. Shows in the same genre going head-to-head can easily hurt the sales for one or more of those shows. I think that's why ef and True Tears had poor/middling sales - Going head-to-head with Clannad hurt them badly, I think.

Prisma ILLYA was more or less fine because of TM being in there, so it has a large target audience.

Prisma Illya didn't sell anywhere near as much as Fate/Zero though. So I'm inclined to think the people who bought the show are actual magical girl genre fans.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I disagree. Shows in the same genre going head-to-head can easily hurt the sales for one or more of those shows. I think that's why ef and True Tears had poor/middling sales - Going head-to-head with Clannad hurt them badly, I think.

Not really. When it comes to adaptation, it is heavily dependant of the core fanbase of the said franchise (not like it won't attract newcomers, but it is quite obvious a strong source material will attract a solid amount of customers).

You have an incredible huge pool of kagiko, while Minori doesn't have a fanbase as big as the latter.
I never saw any glaring difference in term of sales when several "usual" series of the same genre are "competiting" on the same season, especially the usual harem ones, save those with a rather major source material (such like IS and HS DxD).

Prisma Illya didn't sell anywhere near as much as Fate/Zero though. So I'm inclined to think the people who bought the show are actual magical girl genre fans.

Considering the usual raving about Illya and the servants on 2ch, it is more related to the characters and universe than really the whole thing with Mahou shoujo.

And frankly, using F/Z sales figure to put up this argument doesn't make sense at all. We are talking about a spin off, compared to a prequel of a major title over there. That's arguably not the same weight.
If I had to take in consideration the difference in term of production values and marketing, I really don't think you can claim the genre made the difference.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Not really. When it comes to adaptation, it is heavily dependant of the core fanbase of the said franchise (not like it won't attract newcomers, but it is quite obvious a strong source material will attract a solid amount of customers).

That's not necessarily the case. K-On wasn't all that popular until it became an anime. Then its popularity took off like a rocket. There's also cases of anime with popular source material but the anime never sold that well (Umineko being a very good example of this).

I think you're putting a bit too much weight in the importance of source material popularity (it's important, but it's not as totally overriding as you seem to think it is), and not enough weight in how DVD/Blu-Ray sales are a zero sum game. Given how pricey these are, there's only so many of these that your average otaku is going to be buying in any one season, so head-to-head same-genre competition can have adverse sales impacts.

Harem is perhaps an exception because it's such a massive genre to begin with.

Considering the usual raving about Illya and the servants on 2ch, it is more related to the characters and universe than really the whole thing with Mahou shoujo.

Prisma Illya sticks very tightly to the magical girl genre, to the point that some even considered it a Card Captor Sakura ripoff. It's very clear to me that Prisma Illya is attempting to appeal to magical girl fans.

And frankly, using F/Z sales figure to put up this argument doesn't make sense at all.

The argument I'm making here makes plenty of sense. You seem to be arguing that Type Moon fans will buy anything Type Moon, and that's why Primsa Illya sold well. Well, if so, there shouldn't be a huge sales discrepancy between different Type Moon anime properties.

These sales discrepancies suggest to me that brand name is not the main factor here in sales success for either of these Type Moon titles.