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Old 2015-09-07, 16:29   Link #1001
askara
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
It's paradoxical because it offends causality. If you get information from the future and then use that to change the way things happen, your actions will have been influenced by events that never occurred (and will never occur)

So to make sense of the time leaps, I have to assume that the pre-time leap world does not cease to exist, but instead becomes a part of the past, creating a loop in time. Then, the only thing that doesn't make sense is how the leaper is able to retain his memory but everyone else forgets most of it.

That is not paradox, that is just time travel. it is even theoretically and logically possible to achieve the same with a perfect supercomputer and all data in the universe to simulate a 100% accurate future. the real paradox would be travel back in time and kill his mum before he is born but this is not possible here.


and yes in this case the pre-time leap world will cease to exist, otherwise the whole body if Yuu would transfer back in time rather than just the mind
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Old 2015-09-07, 16:30   Link #1002
Ghostfriendly
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Originally Posted by ginger02 View Post
That's how people in this forum are. They act like the elite connoisseur of anime and expect every show to be some Shakespearean-level form of art. Not that the show doesn't have valid concerns that warrant the critique, but in general I feel like most people on this board are too busy nit-picking every detail of a show to enjoy it, from what it seems like. If you look on certain other boards or forums, people seem generally happier and less...stuck up, I suppose.


Anyway, this week has been a good one for the shows I watched. Charlotte, Twenty Again, 37.5C no Namida. I really like this episode. I was worried they would kind of pull the time travel out of nowhere, but they sprinkled little hints throughout the show. I'm happy they got to save Ayumi, but it's obviously going to have consequences.
Loved the scene of everyone getting caught in uniform
People enjoy complaining, and it's worth thinking about why bad writing is bad, especially for other writers. Or maybe they like the series more than they let on?
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Old 2015-09-07, 18:24   Link #1003
Jaden
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Originally Posted by askara View Post
That is not paradox, that is just time travel. it is even theoretically and logically possible to achieve the same with a perfect supercomputer and all data in the universe to simulate a 100% accurate future. the real paradox would be travel back in time and kill his mum before he is born but this is not possible here.

and yes in this case the pre-time leap world will cease to exist, otherwise the whole body if Yuu would transfer back in time rather than just the mind
You are right in that the grandfather paradox (for example, myself going back in time and killing my ancestors) is much greater than the predestination paradox (going back in time and giving my past self information).

This is because the information that Yuu and his brother obtain about the future might as well just be some kind of intuition, guesswork, simulation, or whatever - and this way, the timeline remains continuous.

Meanwhile, the existence of people who have no parents would be more difficult to manufacture. Physical laws would have to be violated in order to preserve the continuity.

So ok, it's not necessarily required for time to loop here...the difference is whether you see the power as sending memories back in time, or actually rewinding time. Either way it's still weird how the time leaper and to a lesser extent, other people, are retaining their memories.
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Old 2015-09-07, 18:43   Link #1004
Marina2
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Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
It's paradoxical because it offends causality. If you get information from the future and then use that to change the way things happen, your actions will have been influenced by events that never occurred (and will never occur)

So to make sense of the time leaps, I have to assume that the pre-time leap world does not cease to exist, but instead becomes a part of the past, creating a loop in time. Then, the only thing that doesn't make sense is how the leaper is able to retain his memory but everyone else forgets most of it.
Why would it doesn't make sense?

If you transfer memory of your mind from the present to your past self , it is normal that your past self will have memory from the future.
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Old 2015-09-07, 18:50   Link #1005
Jaden
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The part with other people also retaining parts of their memory in dreams. Yuu and Ayu experience this several times in the story. (and in the movie theater Yuu suddenly remembers everything)
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Old 2015-09-07, 19:26   Link #1006
Marcus H.
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how come at first everyone expected an unhappy end and now that someting serious happen everyone call it forced drama? it was pretty obivious since the start that something will had to go wrong
For your information, Maeda is the epitome of "forced drama", and people expect him to break his habit of introducing scenes that invest on the emotional weakness of its viewers since he has done it with Angel Beats and he "promised to improve on the problems of Angel Beats".

Quote:
That's how people in this forum are. They act like the elite connoisseur of anime and expect every show to be some Shakespearean-level form of art. Not that the show doesn't have valid concerns that warrant the critique, but in general I feel like most people on this board are too busy nit-picking every detail of a show to enjoy it, from what it seems like. If you look on certain other boards or forums, people seem generally happier and less...stuck up, I suppose.
Oh please, MAL has WORSE elitists than what you have here... if you could even call it elitism. We just LOVE some of Maeda's other works and we expect him to be more than just someone who would shove every moment in his stories to make you cry just so everyone can call his work "emotionally involving".

Some people have just gotten over that vulnerable stage of crying over Maeda's works.

Next time, please don't take Shakespeare into the argument.
We are never those kind of people. We are fans of anime. We speak as such, and we deserve to be respected for our opinion, no matter how it opposes the circlejerk.
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Old 2015-09-07, 20:42   Link #1007
BBOvenGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
For your information, Maeda is the epitome of "forced drama", and people expect him to break his habit of introducing scenes that invest on the emotional weakness of its viewers since he has done it with Angel Beats and he "promised to improve on the problems of Angel Beats".
People keep bringing up that name. I know nothing about him. In fact, when it first came up I kept reading it either as "Medea," a woman from Greek mythology, or "Madea," a character played by a cross-dressing Tyler Perry.

I gather you have a grudge against this person and his storytelling style. That's okay by me - I have a few of those myself (see Joss Whedon). But here's the thing - I don't watch anything done by Joss Whedon any more. I know what to expect from him, and I'm not interested in it. So why do you trouble yourself to watch more of this guy's stuff and get yourself all ticked off?
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Old 2015-09-07, 21:03   Link #1008
Marcus H.
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This was only my third Maeda work after Angel Beats and Little Busters. I only know Clannad through spoilers.
I dunno, I enjoyed both AB and LB, but Maeda pissed me off when he promised that thing about AB and apologizing that the story is a bit slow until halfway through the series if all it did was introduce a bunch of throwaway characters which, in hindsight, only exists to fulfill the twist in the CHARLOTTE title.
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Old 2015-09-07, 21:36   Link #1009
Kuroageha
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After Kanon, Clannad and Air, you should expect him to repeat the same thing.

Tbh, he had better days on his writing, Charlotte is at the top bottom of him.
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Old 2015-09-07, 23:50   Link #1010
Eater of All
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Originally Posted by Izumo View Post
That said, the show is bad? not really. Can be entertaining sometimes because the story here is at comedy level but anyone who take this in a more serious way is deceiving himself or just being conformist.
What I don't understand is how you can so dramatically proclaim "forced drama" after skimming an 11-second preview that provides almost no context of what is actually happening. Lots of shouting does not "forced drama" make (if I understand what you mean by "forced drama" anyway ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Next time, please don't take Shakespeare into the argument.
We are never those kind of people. We are fans of anime. We speak as such, and we deserve to be respected for our opinion, no matter how it opposes the circlejerk.
I agree. Although not all criticisms deserve the same degree of respect; surely we can agree mindless shitting on the show and/or its creators is not fun to read (not accusing anyone in particular).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
The part with other people also retaining parts of their memory in dreams. Yuu and Ayu experience this several times in the story. (and in the movie theater Yuu suddenly remembers everything)
I'm still expecting a deeper level of plot twist from this time leap thing, because while Ayu having faint recollections of Shun can be attributed to an imperfect memory wipe, Yuu's deja vu upon hearing Sala's song suggests something beyond even Shun's stories can explain. Sala herself is still shrouded in mystery.

Also, why is everyone so wary of time travel plots?
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Old 2015-09-08, 00:11   Link #1011
Marcus H.
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I agree. Although not all criticisms deserve the same degree of respect; surely we can agree mindless shitting on the show and/or its creators is not fun to read (not accusing anyone in particular).
I assure you, I won't be going that road of mindless shitting any time soon. I'm just disappointed.
Maybe I trusted Maeda too hard, as Kuroageha stated.
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Old 2015-09-08, 00:22   Link #1012
SuitUp
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Also, why is everyone so wary of time travel plots?
Because everytime you enter time travel into the mix of sci-fi, you end up with inconsistencies that one has to adress, and in doing so you end up lowering your enjoyment of the thing...
In fact, the only times I have truly enjoyed time travel plots is when I completely shut down my disbelief and focus on character relationships and such things, all to ensure I don't think too deeply of the time travel implications...
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Old 2015-09-08, 00:29   Link #1013
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
We are never those kind of people. We are fans of anime. We speak as such, and we deserve to be respected for our opinion, no matter how it opposes the circlejerk.
I'd say the circlejerk here is that Maeda sucks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
Either way it's still weird how the time leaper and to a lesser extent, other people, are retaining their memories.
Not much of a time leap if the leaper doesn't even get memories.
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Old 2015-09-08, 00:53   Link #1014
Izumo
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Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
What I don't understand is how you can so dramatically proclaim "forced drama" after skimming an 11-second preview that provides almost no context of what is actually happening. Lots of shouting does not "forced drama" make (if I understand what you mean by "forced drama" anyway ).
>posting reddit explanation

That's even worse than posting a link from 4ch.

Dramatically proclaim forced drama? nobody needs to watch the next episode to know what is going to happen and what kind of end this series is going to have, everything we have since ep 6-7 is another asspull from Maeda and as Kuroageha said this is one of the worst series he ever made.

Marcus already explain what do we mean with forced drama, try to read a little bit more instead of nitpicking what you want to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
For your information, Maeda is the epitome of "forced drama", and people expect him to break his habit of introducing scenes that invest on the emotional weakness of its viewers since he has done it with Angel Beats and he "promised to improve on the problems of Angel Beats".
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Old 2015-09-08, 00:55   Link #1015
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
What I don't understand is how you can so dramatically proclaim "forced drama" after skimming an 11-second preview that provides almost no context of what is actually happening. Lots of shouting does not "forced drama" make (if I understand what you mean by "forced drama" anyway ).



I agree. Although not all criticisms deserve the same degree of respect; surely we can agree mindless shitting on the show and/or its creators is not fun to read (not accusing anyone in particular).



I'm still expecting a deeper level of plot twist from this time leap thing, because while Ayu having faint recollections of Shun can be attributed to an imperfect memory wipe, Yuu's deja vu upon hearing Sala's song suggests something beyond even Shun's stories can explain. Sala herself is still shrouded in mystery.

Also, why is everyone so wary of time travel plots?
Because the amount of theoretical physics background the writers possess is typically weak, which leads to what SuitUp mentioned. Though it typically bothers physics nuts and hardcore sci-fi fans more than the general audience. These days, I'm less offended and pretty much follow what SuitUp does, so I won't even get started in the flak.
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Old 2015-09-08, 01:03   Link #1016
cyth
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Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy View Post
But here's the thing - I don't watch anything done by Joss Whedon any more. I know what to expect from him, and I'm not interested in it. So why do you trouble yourself to watch more of this guy's stuff and get yourself all ticked off?
Underestimating someone who wrote characters for Kanon, Air and Clannad won't do any good. I personally like Air the most and I consider it to be one of the best TV anime out there.

Then again he hasn't written anime before AB!, his best works just got adapted by other people. It's hard to know just how much he got strong-armed by producers in each case, but one thing's for sure, the guy doesn't know how to make good anime.

Admittedly, this thread has set the bar high for this dude, but he kind of begged for it to be honest. People don't respond well when a creator proclaims something in advance, like "Fractale is going to save anime" or the thing Maeda said. Couple that with the fact he is a superstar script writer and you have a recipe for fast disappointment. I've written more about this on my blog.

But like people said, it's not that this anime is bad, it's still interesting, at least this second half, but that he had to resort to reassuring the public the story picks up speaks volume of his anime writing ability. The forced drama is real, but at this point we'll just have to accept it. Like I said, I'm mostly in it to see whether this train flies off its tracks.
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Old 2015-09-08, 04:34   Link #1017
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by cyth View Post
Underestimating someone who wrote characters for Kanon, Air and Clannad won't do any good. I personally like Air the most and I consider it to be one of the best TV anime out there.
This I agree. Air still traumatized me and I still remember when the arrows flying. That anime made me cry and that's the first. Its rare to be too much emotionally attached but that anime showed its best.

Though admittedly that its probably because its an old one and I'm not that much experienced in watching too much anime back then. But the emotion still felt pure before.

Now I just grew cynical and try to analyze the anime too much that my enjoyment meter just doesn't go that high much, unless I lower the expectation.

Admittedly, Early episode of Charlotte felt filler and waste of time. They should gave more time for Ayumi and be less annoying so her death gave impact, but they didn't and I can't be sure if I blamed it on Maeda.

I played his games and watched the games get animated. I liked his works. Be it Maeda and yanagi videos in youtube. The emotions felt pure there but the anime where his directly connected just felt off. Unlike his other works.

he has just too much idea that are forced cramped into short time of anime.

Though I thought Charlotte would be different with it only had few characters but the first few episode sucks. They might as well introduce the other important characters that meant charlotte than spend that time in esper of the day.

Now we're in the main plot of the story and I can't even care for other characters.
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Old 2015-09-08, 06:08   Link #1018
Gundamx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Izumo View Post
Most of the people here wants to be part of that circlejerking instead of criticize something that many realized, when someone mentions those details they get instantly triggered because they like this show but here is something for you guys... you can like charlotte all what you want but that does not mean this is a good series, the asspull from Maeda is here and even more present than AB.
Last I check, circlejerking was criticize stupid thing, like Time travel was stolen from Madoka or X-Men just because they watch it there for first time .
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Old 2015-09-08, 06:25   Link #1019
Sheba
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One Charlotte's faults was the fact that it is one cours. If it have been longer, it may have introduced the new characters and the plot elements more smoothly. At least its biggest improvement was its "default heroine" who felt more a character than someone like Ayu can ever hope to be.
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Old 2015-09-08, 08:51   Link #1020
Proto
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
This I agree. Air still traumatized me and I still remember when the arrows flying. That anime made me cry and that's the first. Its rare to be too much emotionally attached but that anime showed its best.

Though admittedly that its probably because its an old one and I'm not that much experienced in watching too much anime back then. But the emotion still felt pure before.
Goal!

But yeah, I concur with the general sentiment here. This is definitely not Maeda at his best, though it's still somewhat enjoyable. The problem is if you came here looking for anything better than a 3.5/5 series.
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