Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Only those who don't have it can say for sure. For us, being free, or as free as we can be in our society, is something we take for granted. We don't know how much being free is worth, not matter how much we try to make it seem like we do.

That said, whether it's wise or not is besides the point imo. You gotta try. If you don't, nothing will change. That's also pretty much a fact of life.

Are Squeerats being abuse by the humans prior to the rise of Yakumaro?

Did the human interfered between their civil wars?

Did the humans kept them from progressing?

Sorry, I happen to ask cause if the humans gave the squeerats autonomy to govern themselves.. Why seek freedom that will end up having a war with your masters? Its like in the feudal age... if you have a good Lord why rebel?

[ChronoReverse]

Well, in the end they're an intelligent race so if they can overcome the humans then they get to rule the roost. It's not slavery but it's understandable if they don't want to be under the rule of the humans.

No matter how much you wax rhetoric, it really comes down to that. Both sides appear just as eager to off the other so far anyway.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I don't remember any mention of an approximation of culled children vs the population, but it can't be that large, simply because otherwise the village would die out in the matter of a few generations...


No, they don't execute purely on suspicion... they're looking for specific things, specific issues. The school system is full of constant personality/power assessments. But the thing is, they can't exactly wait until they have definite, 100% proof because by then it's way too late. As for Mamoru, the decision may have been hasty and based on paranoia more than anything else, but ultimately? they were right. Mamoru did lose control over his power as he panicked. This is why Saki, who had just recently had "the talk" with Tomiko, is lost when Maria tells her to say something in Mamoru's defense, because she realizes this. The only problem was that they botched the attack, presumably because they sent only one cat.


I didn't mean the viewers but the humans in the story.


Actually, even in modern times there are many, many places in the world where troops don't risk crap for not only murdering others but doing other horrible, sick things. (There are also places where a murderer who killed someone in their sleep can be regarded as a national hero in their country because of the ethnicity of the person they killed.) But even the people in the story don't randomly vent their anger on bakenezumi, so...


But that bunch of rulers would be made up of survivors of a traumatic event, with a thirst for vengeance and distrust/hatred toward the bakenezumi. And the akki/gouma problem is still not solved, to put it lightly. :/

Seems it's in the thousands range, if that wasn't narrative exaggeration, even if it's not a a self-exterminating rate.

They have their cat killers waiting to jump unsuspecting prey.....Giving them the kill order for someone they've been stalking only when they definitively snap is not impossible. Of course it lowers chances of success but that's why the cats are bred for such stealthy kills no? Akki are not much more durable than normal humans apparently.

Mamoru losing control is a sign of Raman-Klogius syndrome? If he were an Akki, he would have attacked Saki and co on sight yet he didn't.

As for those cases in our times...well even then the victimized in those instances will want change against those stepping down on them. It's entirely natural...Squealer may be an egoistic bastard but well, the human treatment of them certainly didn't make the Bakenezumi situation any better.


Yeah, that is true....yet there's also chance those of Group 1 and those of like mindset take power. Maybe after war against Bakenezumi, peace won't come easily, but at least notice how their own purging indirectly led to this.

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

They have their cat killers waiting to jump unsuspecting prey.....Giving them the kill order for someone they've been stalking only when they definitively snap is not impossible. Of course it lowers chances of success but that's why the cats are bred for such stealthy kills no? Akki are not much more durable than normal humans apparently.

If someone snaps damage will be caused immediately.
Do you expect those cats will be standby everywhere to stop any akki before someone gets killed? And can they stop the akki? Or they will have to wait for their chance, letting more people to die?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Yeah, that is true....yet there's also chance those of Group 1 and those of like mindset take power. Maybe after war against Bakenezumi, peace won't come easily, but at least notice how their own purging indirectly led to this.

The fact is, the purge wasn't carried out properly led to this.

[Repelsteeltju]

Originally Posted by Hitenma

Yes the squeerats are not bad guys.
And yes, it's understandable if they want to be free.
But is it wise to rebel?
A failed rebellion usually brings more harm than good.
Let's face it. There is no way in hell the squeerats can win.
They can cause serious damage to the human side, yes, but it only makes things worse for them when the human take revenge.
Basically it will cause a ton of meaningless deaths and nothing will really change (except their lives will become harsher than before for sure).
So is some illusion of freedom really worth it?

Let's face it, a revolution was bound to happen the moment a queerrat fist caught and tapped into the vast well of knowledge that is a false minoshiro. Surely that is an offence punishable by death. It is for the children. Yakomaru being suspicious or no, the stated reason for the extermination of the Robby Fly colony was that they knew too much and had gotten too powerful.

Originally Posted by ChronoReverse

Well, in the end they're an intelligent race so if they can overcome the humans then they get to rule the roost. It's not slavery but it's understandable if they don't want to be under the rule of the humans.

No matter how much you wax rhetoric, it really comes down to that. Both sides appear just as eager to off the other so far anyway.

I don't want to get into a an argument on semantics but perceived and enforced ownership over an individual or group of individuals constitutes as slavery. It doesn't matter if you're very goddamn nice about it all the time and give 'em a pat on the head every time they do labor for you.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Hitenma

If someone snaps damage will be caused immediately.
Do you expect those cats will be standby everywhere to stop any akki before someone gets killed? And can they stop the akki? Or they will have to wait for their chance, letting more people to die?


The fact is, the purge wasn't carried out properly led to this.

They were shadowing people whom they suspected. If they can do that, they sure can be given the order to attack only on confirmation that the subject has lost it.

What chance....there's only one chance anyway. Those cats are ambush hunters

As for that latter bit....Well if you can't even do something properly leading to consequences like this, you have even less business doing it.

[Hitenma]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

They were shadowing people whom they suspected. If they can do that, they sure can be given the order to attack only on confirmation that the subject has lost it.

You mean something like this?

"Sir, we're following the target."
"Good, but do not do anything until we have 100% proof."
"Sir, the target has just blown up ten people in a blink of eye."
"Damn it! Take him down!"
"Sir, the target is eliminated."
"Well done. See? No innocent die in our hands. Ten people died, but not in our hands, so who cares?"

Sorry for the sarcasm, but you should realize that when you have 100% proof, people already died.
Avoid dirtying your hand in such situation is very irresponsible for someone of authority.

Kazu-kun said that freedom is something we take for granted, but I can say the same for security.
We live a very secured life, so we don't know how much security is worth.
In a world like Shin Sekai, security is much more important than freedom IMO.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

What chance....there's only one chance anyway. Those cats are ambush hunters

Ambush means waiting for your chance to attack.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

As for that latter bit....Well if you can't even do something properly leading to consequences like this, you have even less business doing it.

Sigh.
You should realize that the purge is carried out properly until Tomiko's intervention.
By your logic, current leaders should be replaced with someone more ruthless with the purge.

[kuromitsu]

Oops, sorry, forgot about this one...

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Seems it's in the thousands range, if that wasn't narrative exaggeration, even if it's not a a self-exterminating rate.

Well, there are cca. 3000 people living in Kamisu 66-chou. If they killed thousands of children per year or even per decade they would be extinct by now.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

They have their cat killers waiting to jump unsuspecting prey.....Giving them the kill order for someone they've been stalking only when they definitively snap is not impossible.

I dunno, from what I know about cats it's kind of impossible? After all, they're just animals. You can't train them for something they can't experience. Also, killing an akki after he definitively snaps is pretty much impossible even for cats, that's when he turns into an unstoppable killing machine.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Mamoru losing control is a sign of Raman-Klogius syndrome? If he were an Akki, he would have attacked Saki and co on sight yet he didn't.

It could be a sign of either akki or gouma... Anyway, people don't just turn from normal people with some strange symptoms into akki or gouma overnight - the thing is, no-one can predict when it happens. Remember, in Shun's case Maria and Mamoru overheard the Education Board talking about killing Shun before he fully becomes a gouma. There's also a reason why Shun broke up with Satoru and distanced himself from the rest of the group: he realized, sooner than anyone, that something was wrong with him that may affect his friends. (Actually, the anime didn't mention this but in the novel Saki says that during that particular time they all felt weird as if something was in the air, Maria kept complaining about headaches, etc. So most likely Shun's condition was already affecting them.)

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Squealer may be an egoistic bastard but well, the human treatment of them certainly didn't make the Bakenezumi situation any better.

Sure - we agree about that.

[Guido]

This episode was just a mind blaster. The Queerats finally revolted against the oppression, and, although their attempted coup resulted in failure, they did proved, however, that their so-called "Gods" aren't Gods after all; humans with even Canti possess frail bodies and can be called.

The Queerats finally proved their cunnings and sly tactics, and as I suggested four episodes back that most likely Yakomaru or some other Queerat successfully managed to take a Human with Cantus. I suspect that they were not able to subject that poor soul to the same treatment that they did on their Queen. Not without their side suffering heavy casualties attempting to make the experiment successful.
But for the moment that's the logical plausibility to explain for the clean slaughter of the mutilated Giant Hornet's army.

Humans with Cantus continue to possess the one-sided advantage seen evident with the golden-eyed Priest, however, I don't doubt the Queerats are adapting to that hopeless reality in order to find ways to trick the humans. The best stage would be for them to make use of psychological warfare in order to make the humans go unstable.

Things finally are painting blood red and dark within the bleakness of the New Word. In fact, I have this foreboding feeling that the days of the Village are numbered, because the imposed status quo, reigning for centuries, is going to collapse.