Bakemonogatari - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by qwertyman

That may be true, since I obviously don't know myself, but more than 8 out of 10 times in a non-Shoujo romance, it'll revolve around either the boy or girl love interests debating on whether or not they can muster the strength to confess.

Just because it happens one way in Shoujo doesn't explain why it always happens the other way in non-Shoujos.

I've seen a far share on non-shoujo titles that play along the same as said shoujo titles. You just gotta look around for them.

[Zetsubo]

Originally Posted by hei

Yes, Senjogahara knows how to deal with a pervy like Araragi! She saw through Araragi's perviness and took full advantage of it. In addition to the shower scene of episode 2, there are another examples in episode 3 such as talking about "without wearing panties in the classroom" and "wearing nothing but aprons". As we know, those words were part of her tactics to make Araragi confess.

1. Senjougahara herselfe is a pervert of the highest calibre. She knows herself therefore she knows Araragi. Takes one to know one.
2. It did not work. He did not confess. She did. He may be a perv, but he has a "very large capacity"

It is this capacity that impressed her also... it means he is not likely to cheat on her even when sexually pressured by hot (hitagi knows she is hot) women, even sexually charged ones like Kanbaru.

Originally Posted by hei

I think the answer to this question is also related to another example of how Senjogahara handles Araragi. There is a study scene in episode 6. After Senjogahara asked Araragi's future plan, she suddenly brought up an issue of living together after graduation, which made Araragi fall to joy. By the way, there are a few lines were omitted in the anime which happened just before Senjogahara suggested living together. I post them to make things clearer.

Spoiler:

Araragi: Even if we choose different options after graduation, it does not necessarily mean that we will be separated, does it?
Senjogahara: No, it does not. But, well, being a university student and enjoying lots of gokuns, I might be changed.
Araragi: You are already full of that thought!

On the one hand she made him envy, on the other hand she suggested a carrot! (Probably Araragi will perceive living together as an equivalent of shagging all the time ) So after this talk, Araragi started to think about his future seriously, because he realized that his future plan is closely related to a possibility of living together with Senjogahara. Then, we know what his final choice is. It's not just the university entrance exam, but the same university as Senjogahara!

In this sense, Senjogahara is a really scary woman, not only because of her staplers.

In real life, types like Senjougahara Hitagi go far in life.

[hei]

Originally Posted by Zetsubo

It did not work. He did not confess. She did. He may be a perv, but he has a "very large capacity".

Quite true. But I think that's another example that proves her strength.

She failed in inducing Araragi to confess, but she finally succeeded in getting him. In other words, she lost a battle, but won the war. Her tactics in this process is extraordinary.

Initially she tried it in a manupulative way, but she could not get what she wanted. So what did she do? If it were Hanekawa, she would run away after the initial failure. If it were Kanbaru, she would stick to the initial method that already proved to be ineffective. But Senjogahara is Senjogahara. She immediately reviewed the situation and quickly changed her strategy. Her new strategy was a direct attack, the exact opposite of the initial one. She won.

In short, she knows an opponent as well as herself, can read a situation quickly, and her thought is flexible, too. It's natural that such kind of persons achive a lot in real life.

But, what about if that kind of person is someone very close to you? Of course, it will depend on subjective preference, but my answer is not positive.

[fish eric]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Hmmmm, Kanbaru still holds a flame for Hitagi... and there may be some implication she's not firmly decided on her sexual identity which increases the texture of her relationship with Araragi.

But I think the bigger emotion is just that Araragi is the first guy she's really just felt comfortable around with no baggage or expectations. An actual friend now.

And yeah, I'm missing Hachikuji as well .... she had some wonderfully skewering observations as "conscience sprite".

Yea, maybe she is just happy to have a friend in Araragi and what could be seen as flirting could also be her just teasing him.

However Araragi did risk his life for Kanbaru so maybe she feels like she owes him.


And you know how anime is. If a girl gets hurt and you give her a piggy-back ride or somehow save their life than they will be in love with you for the rest of the series/

[Mughi]

I liked the tension buildup in this one. Araragi with a flirting Kanbaru... going up to a spooky looking old temple to put a kind of seal on it... It felt dangerous on many levels. Still seeing the Kanbaru genki side again as well as the teasing attitude was nice. A good counterpoint to the darkness building.

The LACK of Hitagi was palpable. She leaves a presence even by NOT being there... I kept half expecting her to come bashing in at any moment to beat Araragi into a pulp over a perceived indiscretion. That she didn't even left an interesting impression. This is a very well crafted series.

On the art, I especially liked the look of the BG's. All of the bamboo forest shots looked like they'd been taken right out of an Evind Earle painting. Gorgeous stuff.

I find Nadeko a little off putting myself. She's stunted emotionally and obviously has something going on about Araragi from the flashbacks... Maybe this will be expanded on. And in light of her reactions and statements while standing semi-nude on the bed, she in a twisted way seemed to me to be enjoying having him look at her. For me the big hat and coat she wears is all about making her look younger than she is... She want to be a little innocent girl, but also wants to grow up, so she acquiesces to showing Araragi her body "to show him the marks" in the safety of the presence of another "girl" but I think is getting her own twisted jollies off of being an exhibitionist in front of a boy. One whom I think she likes...

A well rounded eps!

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Mughi

I liked the tension buildup in this one. Araragi with a flirting Kanbaru... going up to a spooky looking old temple to put a kind of seal on it... It felt dangerous on many levels. Still seeing the Kanbaru genki side again as well as the teasing attitude was nice. A good counterpoint to the darkness building.

The LACK of Hitagi was palpable. She leaves a presence even by NOT being there... I kept half expecting her to come bashing in at any moment to beat Araragi into a pulp over a perceived indiscretion. That she didn't even left an interesting impression. This is a very well crafted series.

On the art, I especially liked the look of the BG's. All of the bamboo forest shots looked like they'd been taken right out of an Evind Earle painting. Gorgeous stuff.

I find Nadeko a little off putting myself. She's stunted emotionally and obviously has something going on about Araragi from the flashbacks... Maybe this will be expanded on. And in light of her reactions and statements while standing semi-nude on the bed, she in a twisted way seemed to me to be enjoying having him look at her. For me the big hat and coat she wears is all about making her look younger than she is... She want to be a little innocent girl, but also wants to grow up, so she acquiesces to showing Araragi her body "to show him the marks" in the safety of the presence of another "girl" but I think is getting her own twisted jollies off of being an exhibitionist in front of a boy. One whom I think she likes...

A well rounded eps!

Actually, she wore the hat and the coat to hide the snake marks. She's also probably the most normal of the characters.

Ugh, can't believe I'm defending Nadeko even though she's about the only character I dislike, but fair is fair...

[Sol Falling]

Um, but he's right though. Nadeko does get off on having Araragi look at her.

edit: To be clear I'm just protesting her 'normalness'.

[zato_1one]

Innocent girl can't make this face.

Spoiler for ep.10:

[Mughi]

Originally Posted by ickem

Actually, she wore the hat and the coat to hide the snake marks. She's also probably the most normal of the characters.

Ugh, can't believe I'm defending Nadeko even though she's about the only character I dislike, but fair is fair...

LOL, Well its OK to defend someone you don't care much for. It shows character.

I was really talking mostly about her design. Once I saw her in normal clothes in Eps 11, I could take her as the middle-schooler she is, but in the oversized hat and big overcoat worn loosely around her shoulders, she seemed to me to have been designed to evoke the maximum moeness from the audience. She's just out of what I'd consider to be Loli range (Although still too young to drool over) yet seemed to be wearing clothes designed to make her look sub-teen. I think it really was an outward expression of how she is emotionally repressed (Like who isn't in this show! Well, maybe not Kanbaru... but still damaged!) and as I see her, infatuated with Araragi. She seems to be projecting her age at when she "fell for" Araragi and hasn't gotten past it. More than simply covering the marks, The character designer is making her out to be an emotionally stunted, innocent, helpless, moeblob. Yet in the scene in the bedroom, we see that while playing at a game of "please help me sempai's", she appears to be enjoying the eyes upon her. As discussions of pervyness fly about the room, she seems to me to be the only true perv in the space at that moment.

I find it interesting that in the context of this thinking, it is snakes she is cursed and bound by. In Freudian thinking, she is literally being held captive both spiritually and physically by male members which are threatening her life. I once met a girl who was so traumatized by a rape that she would imagine that she saw snakes coming from the floors and ceilings. By the time I'd met her, she'd gone through years of psychotherapy for the condition, yet still harbored a deep seated fear of serpents, and still had dreams where they would try to strangle her.

Now the situation in this story is different, but I think the symbolism is apt. Somehow being attacked by a snake curse, and attempting to lash out at the snakes to dispel the curse, she still harbors a deep seated desire for her sempai to be in the controlling position. She enjoys his seeing her in a vulnerable state where she is forcing herself to submit to his gaze (and by extension that of another who is desirous of females). That Araragi is such a submissive guy emotionally in a male/female relationship is ironic by measure. He doesn't even know what to say, even as he allows it to transpire under the guise of "learning about her oddity".

If she weren't being portrayed as such a mentally and physically young girl, the implication of visual rape between Araragi and Nadeko, with Kanbaru as a knowing accomplice would be lessened and take some of the sting out of the scene.

This show is such a mind-f***.

[destiny4everlove]

Episode 9

-Araragi is so awesome. Even after all the things that happened last episode with Kanbaru, he is now friends with her and behaves as if nothing happened between them. He is so cool. And I didn’t expect to say this, but Araragi and Kanbaru kind of look cute together.^_^

-The songs in this series sometimes remind me of Mushishi.

-Why did Kanbaru feel dizzy and tired all of sudden? Could her feeling like that be related to the place itself?

-The fact that Araragi wants to go to the same university as Senjo does show he cares a great deal about her, about his gf.

-I think the words that Harawaka said about Araragi getting too friendly with Kanbaru weren’t because she thought that would be what Senjo would feel. I think those words were Harawaka’s own feelings, she was telling him what she would feel if Araragi was her boyfriend and he would get too friendly with one of her friends.

-I loved the almost kiss-scene between Harawaka and Araragi! I was at the edge of my seat while watching that part of the episode. For a moment there, I truly thought Harawaka was going to kiss Araragi. My Harawaka x Araragi fan was really happy during that scene.

-All the things Harawaka said to Araragi in the library, it wasn’t just for Senjo’s sake, it was Harawaka’s own feelings and ideas that she was saying to him.

-Harawaka’s sudden headache… and she said she had been having those lately. I’m curious about the reason why she is having those headaches.

-She is not going home…mmm…there is definitely something happening in Harawaka’s house.

-It was funny how as soon as Kanbaru stepped inside Araragi’s house she went straight to look for the porn mags.

-Koyomi and Kanbaru’s expressions once Kanbaru let him know she knew what kind of porn mag he had bought were priceless and hilarious!

-Sengoku got semi-naked in front of Koyomi and Kanbaru!!!

-So the last loli was a snail, this new loli is a snake!! I can’t wait to see why she is turning into snake!!

[Archon_Wing]

Well, I was kinda bored early on, ms. huge boobs wasn't the most exciting character.

Nadeko.... wtf@ the pedo scene; so is this the Chris Hansen arc? Though I must admit I feel sorta guilty in some way.

Mostly lifted by Suruga and Aragi talking; I think it's worth a 7 for the silly reactions they had. Overall, I'm finding this show more enjoyable. Reaction guys meme was reenacted by those two.