(L+CR) Overlord Season 3

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

At this point, I think that goes without saying .

The only saving grace to that is Goblin Zhuge Liang.

That was golden. I chuckled hard when I read that part in the novel. The novel gave us only subtle hints, and never described him as Zhuge Liang, but it was so easy to figure out immediately.

- Tak

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tak

Lup pretty much did just that near the end of the chapter/episode.

An invisible Lupusregina going "Ehhh?" for a second isn't enough though.

Really, the look on Enri's confused face would have been enough to tell us Enri did something unprecedented.

Enri being confused wouldn't tell us anything about Enri doing something even YGGDRASIL players never did.

That's a big maybe. The LN did not say anything about Ainz's reaction to Enri summoning a legion of Goblins.

We know Lupu was reporting everything to Ainz, especially after her slip-up before, so yes, he must have known, even if the LN didn't explicitly say it.

Who did a poor job in my opinion.

But it was done.

Which would have been fine except Ainz almost contradicted himself. The saving grace to that is it wasn't Ainz talking, but Satoru at the time.

He does that all the time.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Endscape

An invisible Lupusregina going "Ehhh?" for a second isn't enough though.

Not quite, Lup mentioned in the LN that she did not expect Enri to pull a Goblin legion on the Prince and that it was unprecedented.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Enri being confused wouldn't tell us anything about Enri doing something even YGGDRASIL players never did.

Right, except was mentioning Enri doing something that most YGG players never did necessary in this episode?

Originally Posted by Endscape

We know Lupu was reporting everything to Ainz, especially after her slip-up before, so yes, he must have known, even if the LN didn't explicitly say it.

The problem is with Lup making reports. We don't know if Lup made a full report, or a partial report, and there are precedents for this. Just as Demi is most likely to misinterpret certain parts of Ainz's behavior.

I am guessing that Lup made a report to Ainz late about the Prince attacking Carne Village and requested Red Goblins for assistance. Ainz probably granted her those Goblin reinforcements without much of a second thought.

- Tak

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by Endscape

The only opinion that matters in that of the people actually risking their lives, and Ainz didn't deign to actually get their opinion, which is the whole problem.

And like I said, only you have a problem with that. It doesn't look like the villagers gave any care.

Even arrogant and self-centred people can still care about the future of humanity. I can't say it here due to spoilers, but Jircniv's actions make it clear to me that he cares about the human race not being destroyed.

Then we will talk about it in the future. But as you know, I also read the source material and I can't remember anything you said ever happened.

Still not clear why you think bribery can't be eventually stamped out, especially in a utopia.

Because if a utopia is created based on bribery, most of its officers are corrupt people and they need to be fed constantly as long as they are in power and they will try to keep the power as long as possible. Their greed will only grow with time and eventually they will bankrupt the whole system.

Ainz does mass murder right now for little to no reason and his subordinates do the same. Why would they stop after getting more power than they already have?

You keep saying Ainz killed people for no reason but still haven't give any example.

Whether their lives are better under Ainz doesn't negate the fact that no one, whether they're starving peasants or not, deserves to have anyone come in and make decisions for them, especially when in Ainz's case, his decisions revolve around arbitrarily killing them.

Look like you somehow forgot that those peasants have lived their whole life in a medieval feudal system, not a democracy, the idea of making decision for their own life is completely alien to them.

And yet, New World society, while far from perfect, isn't what I would call ruined.

Please look at what happened to Tsuare and say it isn't a ruined society. The nobles who you desperately want to coop with are directly responsible for her tragedy.

Are you joking? We've already heard about how Demiurge is cruelly torturing the people at the farm for no real reason. We've seen how people from Nazarick enjoy hurting people weaker than them for no real reason.

Demiurge and other NPCs have their reasons. Those "tortures" are actually just experiments to know more about the nature of the NW. They are actually new comers who know nothing about this world. They need to understand how it works as fast as possible. Like how healing magic works, how resurrection works, how strong the natives are, ect...

Ainz has never saved the world, and even if he did it doesn't justify his other crimes.

His every existence prevented the destruction of the world. And what crimes he committed again?

Whatever merit Nazarick got out of them doesn't justify killing them.

It's for their own merit. The village got stronger.

At least a police officer will know what they are getting into and has the right to refuse any dangerous assignment. People who are mostly unrelated to them aren't going to send someone to kill them in the name of helping them, so your comparison doesn't work.

Polices actually don't know how dangerous every mission is, until they actually do it. That's why so many of them died at work.

Except they didn't need to die, they could have been trained without killing anyone. Any benefit they would have gotten out of actually risking their life (something that can't actually be quantified) isn't worth their lives.

Like I said, only your opinion. IRL there are also people who risk their life in everyday training, let alone in a fantasy setting where people facing man-eating monsters daily.

Big corporations usually run local stores out of business, so your comparison was accidentally correct. In any case, forcing people to submit your will through violence and deceit can't be called 'working together' and even if they do benefit, that doesn't justify the violence and deceit part.

It's called "takeover", a common practice everyone do in business.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I don't deny long term benefits, what I deny is the fallacious idea of sacrificing something irreplaceable, like human lives, for something that might not even happen.

See? You actually deny the long term benefit just because it isn't suited your narrative while it's actually happening in reality, just look at the lizardmen. They are happy that Ainz conquered them even if some of them died in the process. The same will also happen with the humans.

And if it's necessary for Nazarick, he'll do it, no matter the cost in human life. We've seen him do it already, and I highly doubt he'll change his modus operandi when it comes to people he's conquered, especially since we've already seen that he doesn't value their lives.

After he successfully conquer the world, the whole world will be considered part of Nazarick under his rule, their life will be guaranteed. From what we have seen so far, only people outside Nazarick got killed by Ainz's force.

Demiurge's sheep farm doesn't benefit anyone other than Nazarick's coffers, yet it happens anyway. That won't stop when Ainz conquers the world, he'll simply continue exploiting people for Nazarick's sake, even if it doesn't actually benefit them.

See above. Demiurge's farm benefits Nazarick and it will benefit the whole world after the world is brought under Ainz's rule.

Necessary for Nazarick doesn't translate into necessary for everyone else.

See above.

Originally Posted by Tak

Whose nature are we talking about?

Last time I checked, some NPCs are openly hostile to 'lesser beings' (humans or otherwise), while others outright eat them.

But there is no reason to think that all NPCs are evil and hate humans, which Endscape tried to argue, look at Yuri and Sebas. Even Entoma, who sometime ate humans, doesn't hate them and won't harm them if she is fulled.

From what exactly? Please elaborate.

From Nazarick NPCs, they would have gone mad if Ainz didn't stayed with them and destroyed the NW.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

But there is no reason to think that all NPCs are evil and hate humans, which Endscape tried to argue, look at Yuri and Sebas. Even Entoma, who sometime ate humans, doesn't hate them and won't harm them if she is fulled.

I don't doubt that. Some NPCs are evil, others aren't. Actually, ahem, some NPCs have negative morality, some positive, and I can't fault some NPCs for viewing humans as lower beings.

The problem with this is that Ainz can't cover everyone and everything to maintain a balance all the time.

Especially with his kingdom expanding, he has delegated much responsibility to both Albedo and Demi, with Albedo being more than ruthless, and Demi being more than likely to misinterpret Ainz's actions on more than a few occasions all the while being... well, Demi.

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

From Nazarick NPCs, they would have gone mad if Ainz didn't stayed with them and destroyed the NW.

While that is true, from the NW's perspective, they didn't exactly invite Ainz & co. for tea.

In fact, the source material told us pretty plainly, that YGG players were solely responsible for all the upheavals in the NW, good or bad.

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

See above. Demiurge's farm benefits Nazarick and it will benefit the whole world after the world is brought under Ainz's rule.

They are not cattle farms.

- Tak

[~Yami~]

SASUGA AINZ-SAMA

I'm worried for almost whole episode
Lupusregina is someone who is really bad at making decision... I'm afraid she would let Carne Village got destroyed like that
She always appear at most clutch moment after all

Goblin Zhugeliang ftw... maaan.... how come Goblin could have a paladin division?? aren't they too cool? and that ninja division...

Glad to see Lupusregina cleaned up everything in the dark
I think Ainz didn't want to take any harsh decision toward the prince because he is afraid the kingdom might take revenge on Carne village
but he allowed the clean up and massacre because Carne has 5 thousands elite goblins troops.. They might become new kingdom after this

About the prince, somehow I noticed an intelligence gap toward current generation and old generation of this timeline
We could see some wise old man/woman... like that dragon, Evileye, the woman who beat Evileye, oldman from the empire, theocracy people, Gazef, etc.
They are people who understood the power level of their opponents pretty well even without meeting them
it's surprising that no one from young generation that have those kind of abilities... they are pretty doom

well let's put an exception for the psycho princess and the empire king.. They are... umm.. quite good but the rest are just stupid

[Tak]

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

I think Ainz didn't want to take any harsh decision toward the prince because he is afraid the kingdom might take revenge on Carne village
but he allowed the clean up and massacre because Carne has 5 thousands elite goblins troops.

Ainz actually wanted the Prince dead, since the latter actually dared raising swords against his 'property'. At this rate, Ainz probably wants Princess Renner to assume the throne and will figure out how to murder the 2nd Prince without causing a ruckus at a late date.

Of course, the anime being slightly tame, did not reveal the fact that Lupusregina tortured the Prince for about half-hour before allowing the latter to die.

- Tak

[~Yami~]

Originally Posted by Tak

Ainz actually wanted the Prince dead, since the latter actually dared raising swords against his 'property'. At this rate, Ainz probably wants Princess Renner to assume the throne and will figure out how to murder the 2nd Prince without causing a ruckus at a late date.

Of course, the anime being slightly tame, did not reveal the fact that Lupusregina tortured the Prince for about half-hour before allowing the latter to die.

- Tak

that would be strangely satisfying

I think Ainz would not interfere much
Renner entrusted everything to 2nd prince because she could not marry her love if she become the queen
Ainz would leave everything to Renner to decide about the kingdom future

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

And like I said, only you have a problem with that. It doesn't look like the villagers gave any care.

They don't care because they don't know. If they did, they'd surely be upset about it.

Because if a utopia is created based on bribery, most of its officers are corrupt people and they need to be fed constantly as long as they are in power and they will try to keep the power as long as possible. Their greed will only grow with time and eventually they will bankrupt the whole system.

You can weed corruption out, especially if you live in a 'utopia' ruled by an all powerful leader who answers to no one.

You keep saying Ainz killed people for no reason but still haven't give any example.

The lizardmen, the citizen from the kingdom, etc, etc.

Look like you somehow forgot that those peasants have lived their whole life in a medieval feudal system, not a democracy, the idea of making decision for their own life is completely alien to them.

That doesn't mean Ainz should deceive them for his won ends

Please look at what happened to Tsuare and say it isn't a ruined society.

I never said the NW was perfect. What happened to Tuare was a tragedy, that doesn't mean society is wholly irredeemable.

The nobles who you desperately want to coop with are directly responsible for her tragedy.

Killing a bunch of people, most of them innocent peasants like Tuare, instead of working with the nobles to reduce casualties doesn't help anyone.

Demiurge and other NPCs have their reasons. Those "tortures" are actually just experiments to know more about the nature of the NW. They are actually new comers who know nothing about this world. They need to understand how it works as fast as possible. Like how healing magic works, how resurrection works, how strong the natives are, ect...

Demiurge cooks children alive and forces their parents to watch other people eat them. There's no value in that, it's done only to be cruel.

His every existence prevented the destruction of the world.

Even if that's true, it doesn't justify all the evil Ainz has done

And what crimes he committed again?

Attacking the lizardmen, kidnapping and killing over 100,000 citizens from the kingdom, etc, etc.

It's for their own merit. The village got stronger.

Some people getting stronger doesn't equal the merit of the dead people not dying. What if someone who couldn't be easily replaced ended up getting killed? That would actually make the villager weaker, even if people got stronger.

Polices actually don't know how dangerous every mission is, until they actually do it. That's why so many of them died at work.

They have the right to refuse to go on assignment too, and they are at least told what they are doing, unlike the villagers.

Like I said, only your opinion.

The idea that risking your life is more beneficial or that it actually helps the village as a whole is your opinion as well.

IRL there are also people who risk their life in everyday training,

You've been watching too much anime, no one does that in real life.

It's called "takeover", a common practice everyone do in business.

What big companies like Wal-Mart do to small business aren't takeovers, I suggest you educate yourself on this topic

See? You actually deny the long term benefit just because it isn't suited your narrative while it's actually happening in reality, just look at the lizardmen.

What I denied is that the benefit is worth killing people over, especially when it could easily have been done another way.

They are happy that Ainz conquered them even if some of them died in the process. The same will also happen with the humans.

They aren't happy, they've just decided to accept it, because otherwise they'd be killed.

After he successfully conquer the world, the whole world will be considered part of Nazarick under his rule, their life will be guaranteed. From what we have seen so far, only people outside Nazarick got killed by Ainz's force.

From what I've seen so far, Ainz is totally unwilling or unable to control his subordinates from doing horrible things to non-Nazarick people and that he has zero intention to change that. I've seen that he is willing to murder NW residents for the sake of Nazarick, or even whatever whim floats in his mind at any time, and I've seen zero indication that will stop when he declares people under his protection, as Carne Village so richly indicates.

See above. Demiurge's farm benefits Nazarick and it will benefit the whole world after the world is brought under Ainz's rule.

How is Nazarick getting magic scrolls made of human skin benefiting anyone outside Nazarick? How is eating children benefiting Nazarick, or anyone at all outside Demiurge.

But there is no reason to think that all NPCs are evil and hate humans, which Endscape tried to argue, look at Yuri and Sebas.

I don't recall saying that all the NPC's are evil. The ones that are actually running things, Albedo and Demiurge are absolutely evil and have unlimited power and authority.

The other evil ones have no limits put on them and can do whatever they want. Even Sebas and Yuri, despite being decent are more than willing to do evil under Ainz's orders. The only ones actually willing to defy orders to do the right thing are the ones with limited authority, like Pestonya and Nigredo.

Even Entoma, who sometime ate humans, doesn't hate them and won't harm them if she is fulled.

The problem isn't that she hates them, it's that she kills and eats them. And before you bring up humans eating animals, animals aren't sapient, humans are.

If Nazarick conquers the world and everyone becomes Ainz's servant, do you think he'll just tell her to stop eating humans?

From Nazarick NPCs, they would have gone mad if Ainz didn't stayed with them and destroyed the NW.

There's no guarantee that Nazarick would get transported without Ainz. Even if it did, as you yourself mentioned, there are some decent people in the NPC's, it could end in a civil war rather than them all going out of the way and destroying the NW.

[Tak]

It's a bit difficult to ask the Great Tomb of Nazarick to feel compassionate towards humans not only because many of them exercise downright negative morality, but a vast majority of them (save maybe one) aren't Human to begin with, or Lizards, or Dwarfs, Ogres, or Giants... etc.

They are all essentially different species.

It's already a feat that Ainz and several Nazarick NPCs are displaying a level of compassion towards certain humans.

How is eating children benefiting Nazarick, or anyone at all outside Demiurge.

A great number of NPCs devour the flesh of sentient beings, so unless a substitute is found, this will continue.

You have Kyouhukou, the walking cockroach and Entoma, two of the nicer NPCs, both of them man-eaters. Let's also not forget, aside from the NPCs most prominently featured in the novels and anime, they all have their own legions of minions who share the same diet.

On the other hand, I feel neither remorse nor regret when I devour meat. The feeling of Nazarick NPCs is probably the same.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tak

It's a bit difficult to ask the Great Tomb of Nazarick to feel compassionate towards humans not only because many of them exercise downright negative morality, but a vast majority of them (save maybe one) aren't Human to begin with, or Lizards, or Dwarfs, Ogres, or Giants... etc.

They are essentially different species altogether.

It's already a feat that Ainz and several Nazarick NPCs are displaying a level of compassion towards certain humans.



A great number of NPCs devour the flesh of sentient beings, so unless a substitute is found, this will continue.

On the other hand, I feel neither remorse nor regret when I devour meat. The feeling of Nazarick NPCs is probably the same.

- Tak

1. None of them need to eat human flesh at all. The Tomb is calculated to provide all their nutritional needs. Some of them just like to eat human flesh.
2. It wasn't about NPCs eating people. It's about Demiurge forcing human prisoners to eat babies.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

1. None of them need to eat human flesh at all. The Tomb is calculated to provide all their nutritional needs. Some of them just like to eat human flesh.
2. It wasn't about NPCs eating people. It's about Demiurge forcing human prisoners to eat babies.

And again, they aren't even human.

You are still asking one specie to be compassionate towards another specie. Why should they?

And we know Demi is an evil son-of-a-bitch, but from his perspective, he probably doesn't think that way.

- Tak

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Tak

Not quite, Lup mentioned in the LN that she did not expect Enri to pull a Goblin legion on the Prince and that it was unprecedented.

A little more background than that is necessary.

Right, except was mentioning Enri doing something that most YGG players never did necessary in this episode?

Expanding the backstory.

The problem is with Lup making reports. We don't know if Lup made a full report, or a partial report, and there are precedents for this. Just as Demi is most likely to misinterpret certain parts of Ainz's behavior.

She just got dressed down for giving incomplete reports. I'm sure she wouldn't make that mistake again.

Originally Posted by Tak

A great number of NPCs devour the flesh of sentient beings, so unless a substitute is found, this will continue.

None of them need to eat human flesh, they just like to.

On the other hand, I feel neither remorse nor regret when I devour meat. The feeling of Nazarick NPCs is probably the same.

The animals you eat cannot talk back to you. Would you eat them if that were the case?

Originally Posted by Tak

And again, they aren't even human.

You are still asking one specie to be compassionate towards another specie. Why should they?

They don't need to be compassionate, they just need not to kill people needlessly.

[eiyuuou]

In the recent past, an enquiry into BSE found that cattle were fed with the remains of other cattle in the form of meat and bone meal, a protein supplement in concentrated feed. It is a fact that humans themselves see cattle nothing more than cattle.
For demiurge being a demon himself, demihuman or human outsiders are nothing more than cattle. when he mentioned Abelion Sheep to ainz, it should be clear how he viewed outsiders.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Endscape

None of them need to eat human flesh, they just like to.

You have any good reason why, from their perspective that they need to stop?

Originally Posted by Endscape

The animals you eat cannot talk back to you. Would you eat them if that were the case?

I am pretty sure I've not seen everything yet, but give me time and maybe I will have an opportunity to tell you.

Originally Posted by Endscape

They don't need to be compassionate, they just need not to kill people needlessly.

Except you are asking beings who might as well be gods in the NW, who do not share the same human feelings and sensitivities to suddenly share human feelings & sensitivities. With few exceptions, they see humans and they think rats, flies or mosquitos. At best, they think humans could be pets.

Nobody is arguing that, from our perspective, some of the NPCs' actions are horrible, but what about their perspective? Even Ainz admitted that he felt nothing killing or seeing humans die.

Originally Posted by eiyuuou

For demiurge being a demon himself, demihuman or human outsiders are nothing more than cattle. when he mentioned Abelion Sheep to ainz, it should be clear how he viewed outsiders.

The funny part is that Ainz naively believed he was talking about actual sheep, and then suggested goat-breeding instead. I chuckled.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tak

And again, they aren't even human.

You are still asking one specie to be compassionate towards another specie. Why should they?

And we know Demi is an evil son-of-a-bitch, but from his perspective, he probably doesn't think that way.

- Tak

I'm not asking anything. I am, however, acknowledging that Demiurge is evil and sadistic, and that any claim that everything that Ainz and his minions do is ultimately for the greater good of everyone including humans is, in fact, bullshit.

Originally Posted by Tak

The funny part is that Ainz naively believed he was talking about actual sheep, and then suggested goat-breeding instead. I chuckled.

- Tak

He didn't suggest goat breeding. He thought Demiurge was using a Chimera monster that, to him, was more goat-like than sheep-like. Thus he suggested naming them goats instead of sheep.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'm not asking anything. I am, however, acknowledging that Demiurge is evil and sadistic, and that any claim that everything that Ainz and his minions do is ultimately for the greater good of everyone including humans is, in fact, bullshit.

Yeah, I already agreed with you on that point. If I was someone living in close proximity to the Sorcerer Kingdom, fully realizing what the monsters of the said kingdom could do, I wouldn't want any of its denizens to 'grace' my town either.

However, to say the NPCs of Nazarick should all-of-a-sudden adapt a sense of morality similar to those in the NW is equally crap. Why should they?

- Tak

[EroKing]

NSFW

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[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Endscape

An invisible Lupusregina going "Ehhh?" for a second isn't enough though.

On the Lupusregina note, it was apparently also not too clear that she helped Enri beat the goblin. At least there were people who actually thought Enri won that one on her own.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Demiurge cooks children alive and forces their parents to watch other people eat them. There's no value in that, it's done only to be cruel.

I don't recall this being mentioned or shown in the anime. If this is true, I'm going to ask people who are reading the light novel to stay out of spoiler territory.

Using novel knowledge is fine if it's to talk about things the anime has already covered, changed, etc., but not for things that aren't revealed or mentioned yet.