Honey and Clover II

[Kaoru Chujo]

I was actually a little cool about the first part of this ep, but it sure came through after that. Takahashi Mikako is so great as Ayu. I adore Simoun, but she's not anywhere near as good there, as Rodoreamon.

I think I'm beginning to see Mayama more clearly. And it was not disturbing, just wonderful, to hear him speaking with a version of Kyon's voice, lol (Sugita Tomokazu).

Spoiler for ep2:

I didn't like the hiccup sequence in the manga, either, so I guess it's logical I wouldn't enjoy it that much here. Maybe I like Hagu too much to see her so upset.

Her pain at the end was real, though. I think she cried because Takemoto is such a nice friend, but she doesn't love him. It's sad and embarrassing. I guess Takemoto is just not my guy. I see how good he is, and how he's grown, but he still leaves me cold.

The part with Mayama-Rika-Ayu was so well done. The subtlety of people's feelings and relationships in H&C is just saikou. And gosh, do I love Ayu. I eagerly await next week: I saw her and Nomiya together in the preview.

Spoiler for the manga:

Ayu and Nomiya walking on the sand dunes? Maybe even the train door? The unicorns? I can't wait.

One thing in this ep: the heavy cross-hatched shadows under people's jaws freaked me out a bit. Have I just forgotten that they did it that way in season one, too?

Oh, and I'm a huge fan of spoiler tags, as you can see. I try to stay behind them until a day or so after the subs are out, unless others have broken the ban without people complaining.

EDIT: I have way of seeing who's interested in H&C, and I see that people from all over the world are: US, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Poland, Estonia, France, Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Russia, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand.... Isn't anime wonderful? Anime brings the world together. Honey & Clover does, in particular.

[physics223]

Pst. Can you translate c63 for us, Kaoru and post it in the manga thread? Please? I'd like to know more about ... yeah, those two.

I'm a fan of spoiler tags, but I really think that once it's released in raw or otherwise, it's fair game to talk about it. Perceive the notion any way you guys want, but really - it's out as a Chinese raw, and if you only look somewhere™ hard enough you could really find it. Unless, of course, you don't know where this somewhere™ is.

I guess you guys have a point. I do use spoiler tags.

Well, Kaoru, I think that H&C II's going to be at least as good as H&C, if not better. I don't know why I think that, but really ... *smirks*

[Furudanuki]

Some speculation on my part, and if this has already been discussed please disregard... I hope that I am completely wrong, but I can't seem to shake the feeling that by the end of this series there will be a Morita, Hagu and Takemoto couple-plus-one relationship established to mirror the old Harada, Rika and Shuuji grouping. Not what I really want to see happen...

[physics223]

I don't want that to happen, but there is Shuuji, so it's not going to be like the old Harada, Rika and Shuuji pairing just because there will be Shuuji with Hagu, Takemoto and Morita. I don't think it will end that way.

[Vexx]

All the pretty triangles they just twirl and bang together... o wait.

I am glad to see this rolling... having at least one great series rolling at a time is never a bad thing (now they just better not lose their focus on this one).

[wintermoon]

I hope this isn't a dumb question, but it's been bugging me awhile since Ayu's working with Rika and Mayama.

Spoiler for Ep 2:

Spoiler:

In the summaries for ep 2, Shuuji tells Ayu that Rika doesn't talk much to people she likes. For those of you who've seen the raws, when Rika and Ayu were having that parfait, what sort of conversation did they have, if any? If they weren't talking much...I wonder Rika is fond of Ayu as well? Or is it just a typical interaction between people who don't know each other well enough to be comfortable? I guess I'm just curious about how they interact. I imagine it would be even more painful for Ayu if she also liked Rika as a person, in spite of the Mayama factor.

[physics223]

Spoiler for wintermoon's question:

It's different when you don't talk much to a person you're with for only a short time from a person you're with for at least four years. Four or five episodes into the first season, we have a glimpse of Rika at the least having an interest at Mayama. You don't cry like that when you don't give a damn. It's very hard to get over a loved one's death, especially when you were the cause of it, but it seems Mayama has slowly weaned her out from that decrepitude. It is more painful for Ayu because she can see Rika's beauty and poise, and she does like Rika as a person (that is, try as she might, she doesn't see anything wrong with her, really). This is just the tip of the iceberg, wintermoon. I'm expecting more basing from Kaoru Chujo's summaries of the manga. Maybe they'll even end it on a Rika-Mayama note (the anime, that is).

[MrProphet]

BTW, for those of you wondering what the hell those figures in the opening video are: it's an allusion to the statue of Bremen Musicians, characters from Brothers Grimm fairy-tale.

There is a statue almost exactly like that in the German town of Bremen.

[kokujin_2000]

This is a favor for all of you that enjoy H&C as much as I do.

I'm stationed in the Middle East and I've no chance to watch H&C2

Can someone give me the rundown of the show's opening? It might be a minor thing to most but I thoroughly enjoyed H&C1's two openings.

Peace in the Middle East

koku

[brightredglow]

Finally got a chance (or rather, a break from work) to download a raw version of ep 2.

Initial impression is mostly positive but some "not that again!" moments came up that made it a slightly mixed bag for me. I expect my feelings will change once the fansubs are out. I appreciate the summaries but I admit that in my Japanese challenged state, there is something very helpful about following the dialogue, and inner monologues, in time with the action that brings out stuff that I just can't get from the raw and summaries combined.

That said, my initial impressions are beneath the spoiler tag to be recorded for personal posterity.

Spoiler for ep2...tagged just to be safe:

Likes:
-Whoa Takemoto! How you've grown! He may not be exactly where he wants to be jobwise, but he is a lot more confident and solid. The clotheslining of Morita also earns him extra points.
-Ayu and Rika. It is too much to hope for, but I will anyway. I hope that they get to be friends in spite of Mayama. Rika, honestly, needs a friend to go out and have fun with and who doesn't treat her like she's glass. Given Ayu's lust for life, she could be that friend if she lets herself be. Besides, they seem to have more chemistry together than Rika has with Mayama. At least to me, they do.
-Kaoru. Because he's Kaoru and I've got high hopes that he'll be featured more.
-Morita/Ayu scenes are gold. They may not be romantic but there is something about Morita when he's with Ayu that never fails to remind me that he's not a money hungry, hyper-psycho, maturity-challenged maniac.
-Animation quality is gorgeous.

The "roll my eyes" moments that are not quite dislikes nor are they criticisms against the storytelling. They just don't quite sit well with me:
-Mother hen Mayama. Yes, he loves Rika but does he have to treat her like a child?
-Delicate Rika. I don't like feeling like I have to root for her because she's so fragile and seemingly helpless.
-Ayu's refrain of "Mayama no baka" is old. I love Ayu like no other H&C chara, but can we please move on?

[tritoch]

"____ no baka" is Takahashi Mikako's signature line. All of her roles has that line somewhere. Where it was Rika in Hantsuki to another antisocial girl in Canvas 2. She says that line with impunity and with such flare.

I really do love it whenever Ayu utters "Mayama nooooo BAKA!"

[Truth-kun]

Solar-IDE subs are out. Will join the conversation as soon as I finished downloading.

[domino]

Originally Posted by MrProphet

BTW, for those of you wondering what the hell those figures in the opening video are: it's an allusion to the statue of Bremen Musicians, characters from Brothers Grimm fairy-tale.

There is a statue almost exactly like that in the German town of Bremen.

Ohh, so that's where they got the statue idea from..! I didn't know about this statue so I thought the opening was very random and confusing..

I wonder why they chose this to be the opening movie? (I greatly prefer the first season's opening...) Maybe the animals symbolize things? The poodle is pretty obvious (since that poodle actually appears in the TV series), but I wonder why they chose the goose, lion, and unicorn. Could they stand for characters? Maybe Hagu is the goose, Ayu is the lion, and the unicorn is... Morita?

[brightredglow]

Originally Posted by tritoch

"____ no baka" is Takahashi Mikako's signature line. All of her roles has that line somewhere. Where it was Rika in Hantsuki to another antisocial girl in Canvas 2. She says that line with impunity and with such flare.

I really do love it whenever Ayu utters "Mayama nooooo BAKA!"

Much thanks for this added info and an opposing opinion on this matter. I love Ayu as a character but in that particular aspect, it was starting to grate on me. I'm glad to know that this is not the case with others.

And oh yeah! Downloading the fansub now. My enlightenment is near!

[stfu]

Ayu's situation might've been able to evoke sympathy early on, but it's just getting annoying at this point. I've had enough of her jealous emo-ness. I can't see how you love hearing her do her "baka" whine, considering she does it like 3 times per ep.

[physics223]

People move on easily in other anime. As among this show's strong points is its gritty realism, they don't move on easily. It's as piercing and as excruciating as sharp nails clawing down a chalkboard, but it's almost reality. I appreciate the humanity of this series, and people often reiterate themselves, so I loved it.

[Truth-kun]

I just finished watching the subs!
It certainly makes up for the first episode, for this immidiately digs us to the drama that were left unfinished the past season.

Spoiler for thoughts:

Although Takemoto had less airtime (yes Takemoto is my favorite character in H&C), I was deeply joyed on how the other characters get their fill of character development. Morita's serious scenes were all over this episode, and his character, little by little, is being developed.

I admit that I'm not much of a fan of Ayu x Mayama, but I'm starting to understand the situation, and I really started feeling bad for Ayu. I wish she could have moved on, but thats just me.

Next episode we might see another Ayu x (Senpai of Mayama from his old job, forgot his name -_-). I don't particularly like that guy for Ayu, but at least she could move on.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

EDIT: I have way of seeing who's interested in H&C, and I see that people from all over the world are: US, Canada, Mexico, Germany, Poland, Estonia, France, Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Russia, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand.... Isn't anime wonderful? Anime brings the world together. Honey & Clover does, in particular.

You forgot us! Philippines XD. Hahaha

[tritoch]

People tend to forget the timeframe in between series. As much as you hate to see Ayu whine, its only been a few days since Takemoto's confession thus realistically continuing Ayu's plight for world peace errr.... Mayama lovesickness.

Actually, Ayu utters those lines for a reason. And I we saw the reason why in the first season. Ayu was overprotected by her store family and she grew up with relative love hardship. Enter: Mayama, Ayu is very much new to aesthetics of falling in love and getting hurt. Realistically speaking, her reaction is the most "normal" one fo that situation.

And if you don't believe me, just remember those puppy love times you had growing up. Don't you always say that she/he is stupid for falling for someone else?

Now add two and two. Ta-Da. Ayu's plight 101.

But now here we are treated with some Nomiya moments, remember that Ayu is only slightly fond of Nomiya. Its leaning slowly and slowly over to becoming a real love contender relationship and both Nomiya and Ayu's reactions/approach to the situation is very different from how they normally do it. In this case, Nomiya doesn't really care about girls (I believe the 1st season said why) and ofcourse, Ayu is pretty much da-da ove Mayama and yet when these two people met, the reaction was different. Nomiya was serious and Ayu wasn't acting childish.

[physics223]

Honey and Clover II Episode Two Insights

I didn't think you were Filipino, Truth-kun. LAWL. I'm one too. Isn't Honey and Clover universal?

[brightredglow]

The reason that I don't like to see the whining, especially in this second season, is that Ayu had grown so much by the end of the first season. To see her go back to the old refrain is like she's regressed instead of progressed. Ayu is strong and sensitive yet her actions in this ep makes her look vindictive and bitter and that's not how she was at the end of the first season and it just seems a bit jarring. Of course, that is just an opinion.

Spoiler for for ep 2...fansub out but still being safe:

However to be fair to Ayu, this is the first time that she is working directly with Mayama and Rika and witnessing the reality of their relationship. I like how Morita says that she is trying to burn them into her brain as a couple even though Rika and Mayama aren't there yet. She also takes his advice to do the crying when she's alone. If this helps her purge it, then I'll bear with it especially since Nomiya is coming up in next ep.

But speaking of Rika and Mayama, I am probably the only person who thinks that all may not be so smooth sailing for Rika and Mayama. Mayama will probably get Rika in the end. The hiccup scene at the end of the ep reinforces the idea, but that scene with him telling when to go to bed and how he said it to her sent chills up my spine and they weren't the good kind of chills. If that is an example of what Rika has in store for her should she and Mayama hook up then I'm not so sure she is getting the best end of the stick. Then again, given her passive personality, it may be exactly what she wants.

Originally Posted by tritoch

But now here we are treated with some Nomiya moments, remember that Ayu is only slightly fond of Nomiya. Its leaning slowly and slowly over to becoming a real love contender relationship and both Nomiya and Ayu's reactions/approach to the situation is very different from how they normally do it. In this case, Nomiya doesn't really care about girls (I believe the 1st season said why) and ofcourse, Ayu is pretty much da-da ove Mayama and yet when these two people met, the reaction was different. Nomiya was serious and Ayu wasn't acting childish.

I totally missed the above when I first made this post but I just had to add it as a quote. The sentence in bold is my emphasis and I think it is such a great point because it nails why I'm a Nomiya/Ayu shipper. Ayu has expressed fears of being an adult and her behavior shows it at odd times, but with Nomiya (and with Morita as well), she begins to show hints of the adult she will be. And Nomiya, who can and has had almost any girl he wanted, is having to readjust his thinking with Ayu. In short, even if they don't hook up romantically, their interaction and friendship is making them better people and that makes their story intriguing.