[Jap-Manga] Claymore Statistics, Power Levels, and Theories

[Fate_Archer]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

It can by possibility, it doesn't have to by necessity. Just because Teresa wasn't blind doesn't mean her yoki sensing wasn't greater still in the aspect where it was said to be the greatest. Plus, there's still that distinction where their abilities excel, Galatea's range and Teresa's detail. Because they excel at different aspects of the sensing ability, they're not as comparable. Yes, we know Galatea's range had always been greater than anyone we've seen yet and recently we've seen it improved. That's not to say she has acquired the same ability as Teresa, let alone surpassed it. Being blind, her other senses were likely developed too. Objects don't give out yoki yet she seems to be able to precisely detect locations and physical objects. For all we know, her handicap raised all of her senses save for sight to a comparable level as Maita's.

Oh man, I'm starting to get tired of writing the same thing in 3 different threads...

Well, regarding this issue, I will just quote myself.

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Lots of people have the fallacious idea that Galatea can only sense things in a great area, without great details, just sensing the general things.
I will collect a few points that prove how you people are misjudging Galatea's abilities.

• Galatea could read emotions from a great distance.
  And how? The oscillation of their energy. By the oscillation of Helen's energy, the way she reacted after hearing Miria's words about the half-awakening, Galatea could describe her as a passionate and hot-headed type. Heck, she could even sense Helen gesturing with her hands.
  Clare, who was calm and at the same time very uneasy, was like an open book for Galatea, who could see even beyond her past.
  SO fear: Galatea can see DETAILS, even from great distances.

• I think most of people don't understand Galatea's manipulation. The mechanics are explained by Riful, on chapter 45, page 08.
  Lets go to the technique: Galatea can sense/read the yoma energy (yoki) in the least, most minuscule details. Therefore, she is able to see the least details of the yoki-flow from her enemy's blow, and align a little of her own energy with the enemy's energy, subsequently being able to manipulate the yoki-flow on her enemy's blow, and consequently being able to manipulate a little of the trajectory of the enemy's blow.
  That's the basics, but to actually manipulate the movement, she has to find places where the yoki flow is irregular, weaker. She has to find a weak spot in the blow, and it's there where she "harmonize" the yoki, in other words, align her own yoki with the yoki on the weak spot.
  It's much easier to do this "trick" while your opponent is in doubt or really insecure about his own move. But an attack with no doubts and full strength is an attack that lacks these weak spots.
  That's why her technique wasn't working against Dauf at certain point, and that's probably why it didn't work with Miata either.
  That's the weakness of this technique. The excess of yoki, not enabling her to find the irregular spots on the yoki-flow.
  SO, in order to manipulate "things", one have to sense/read yoma energy in its least, most minuscule details.
  Thus, Galatea can see DETAILS in a limited area as well.

• Teresa's and Galatea's abilities are quite similar. Similar effects (dodge, avoid enemies attacks) but the same basics: the reading of yoki in a totally detailed way.
  The difference is that while Teresa use her detailed sense to predict her enemy's blows, Galatea use her detailed senses to manipulate her enemy's blows.
  While Teresa sense the yoki-flow and just avoid the attacks, Galatea aligns her own energy with the opponents' energy to put his move where she wants.
  I would venture to say that what Galatea does is an even more complex task. Remember, I'm not entering in the merits of who has the better technique.
  Both techniques have weakness though.
  Clare even confused herself while seeing Galatea changing the trajectories of Dauf's poles, she thought Galatea was using Teresa's technique.
  Teresa specialized at the preemptive reading of the yoki flow, while Galatea specialized at the manipulation of the yoki-flow.

The original post is here as well.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Originally Posted by Fate_Archer

Oh man, I'm starting to get tired of writing the same thing in 3 different threads...

Well, regarding this issue, I will just quote myself.

The original post is here as well.

Bravo, I certainly concur with your analysis.

[khryoleoz]

Then we're agreed that given there remains a vital difference in their abilities, that of preemptive and manipulative, they are in that one area incomparable? So better and surpassing are meaningless terms without further qualifying which works best in a given situation, and the analysis is successful only at identifying where they are equal. So no more of this Galatea > Teresa at yoki sensing fallacy. If anything, the ability to predict is far more preferable than manipulating when the weaknesses of manipulation are worse and make it far less reliable than prediction's.

[Mord]

We don't actually know if Clare or Teresa would be able to detect the yoki of someone who is using the yoki suppression pills.

If I remember correctly, while it may take a bit of time Clare has always been capable of detecting the flow of yoki so long as she actually tired to do so. The only exception I can think of is when she had trouble pinpointing the location the yoma in Rabona while she herself was using the pills.

As for Teresa, the only time she had any trouble detecting someone's aura was before Priscilla released and after she began to awaken when the yoki was out of control.

According to the data books, Priscilla's class is "Offensive Type - aura suppression/rapid growth" and her highlighted technique is also her aura suppression. Even in the extra stories while she was an awakened being she was still continuing to suppress her aura to the point that Isley and Rigardo failed to detect the true extent of it.

There is also the possibility that a forced suppression through the use of pills isn't as good as a natural suppression. Personally I'm of the opinion that a natural suppression is better the using the pills. In volume 08 chapter 41, while Clare was using the suppression pills, Jean looked up towards the room Clare was in because she thought she felt something.

[edf91]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Jean is a B+ and Helen is a B, both of them only appear to strike harder when they are using their special techniques as well.

Is Claire's "current" strength level C or something along those lines? Just want to see what kind of "modifier" would quicksword or windcutter give to Claire's attack.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It really depends, in most situations the Katana, a weapon of war, would do better.

It really depends on the usage. Kind of like those ninja movies - the moment I see those ninjas have katana on their blade, I want to bang my head against the war because I seriously doubt they are bring that "huge" thing when they do stealth missions...

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Not in battle no, but the Tanto's purpose in a daisho is for the Ritual Suicide outside of battle (a far more common occurance.)

Yeah, and someone will serve as second to chop off his head (doubt there are many female samurai).

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I draw my conclusion from both her wording, and the fact she ripped of an ABs arm without using Yoki.

Thought she does that after Teresa already start to use youki?

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Rolling a dice is far to risky in a battle, it will get you killed more often then not, your opponent won't need to anticipate your move if your "random" strike is badly placed. All attacks should take yourself, your opponent, and your surroundings into consideration.

The whole concept came from a Chinese martial arts novel - for fights against opponents where you cannot find an opening, the main character decide to use a strike that no martial artist would dare to use, as holes everywhere, to basically entice the opponent to attack, then he attack the opponent's weakness. Only battle that doesn't work on was someone who was like four times faster than he is (that guy ran circles around 4 people surrounding him, and he do damage to all of them. Of course I wouldn't mention the famous part about that guy is that he cut off his "you know what" in order to study the technique that makes him go so fast).

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Every attack leaves a hole, some just leave bigger holes then others, even feinting leaves a hole in your defense.

And it's only a hole if you cannot "cover" that - see my above example on the use of that technique.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It is something called "Muscle Memory" martial artists practice katas specifically for the purpose to ingrain it into this type of memory, so that they don't have to "think" per say, they simply give the "ignition" thought and the attack goes.
Irene's stat in mental is not for show, she has the second highest mental score in this entire series, only below Jean and Alicia/Beth. So it is quite possible for her to have trained her arm to the point where it will attack in the desired pattern she wishes for. That is what Irene's "Mastery" of the Flash-Sword means.

If this is the case, it can be dangerous for Ilena to be using it like this before if people like Teresa was able to observe its use, sooner or later, they will figure out the sequence in which Ilena strike, which is a bad thing. This is kind of funny - it is a good idea to train your body so it will react automatically, it can also be a bad idea in the sense once your opponent figure out the pattern, they might use it against you. Another thing is Ilena must spend a lot of time practicing the various "kata", as she uses quicksword in quite a few different ways, so I guess she practice the variuos combination for a long time so her muscle can memorize it.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I included this in my explanation above, Muscle memory is the answer you are looking for. You start a set of movements that are basically pre-programmed in both your brain and muscles.

I know - just wondering whether it is "possible" for her to alter the location of the strike, without making the muscle memorizing it first, because if not, that mean Ilena has several set of "kata" for each area she is trying to defend/strike at.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

If that is really how Irene was doing that, then she was putting herself at immense, and needless, personal risk, as their would be no way for her to ensure her ability to block the attacks, as she is not controlling her arm, at least by what you are saying there.

Why would that be? I just see it as you are basically asking a bunch of kids to draw inside a box - it is difficult in the sense that the kids might not listen to you, but if you can make them, your box will sooner or later be filled completely. I just see Ilena doing something like that - basically ask the sword to just keep swinging in a particular area, and since she is swing, not stabbing, the angle is pretty big, and if you do it fast enough, it will basically transform into a moving "wall". As long as her opponent cannot "break" the wall as in put enough force to force Ilena's sword back, therefore breaking her rhythm, it will basically block everything in that area.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It is hard to describe things in text, which is why we are having such a hard time, I know from personal experience how some of these things work, so I would be better of demonstrating then explaining it. >.<

Think another thing is that I had the Chinese martial artist mentality when I think about those things, so it's slightly different than yours, probably. Chinese typically don't believe in putting that much force into strikes, as it usually introduce some sort of delay into getting the force in. Martial artists don't typically wear armor, so why need to swing so hard, when a regular "swing" can do the trick?

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

I wouldn't either, Soul Calibur mis-represents alot of the weapons in that game, the Katana wielder in that game is actually quite slow tbh.

How slow? You are not saying someone using Katana can stab as fast as a rapier? The style they put in the game seems to be the most general out there - it's not the best, but not the worse either, as you can pretty much do everything...

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

Katana's sacrifice a double-edged blade for a curved blade that has superior strength and cutting power, not to mention it opens up the door-way to sheath attacks such as Battojutsu, and many Iaido strikes.

Unless I am mistaken, it seems the katana seems to favor slicing/slashing action.

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

The Jian may go back a long way, but the Katana was designed with the best features a sword can have in mind, old is not always better.

If you are into power, it is. I remember reading one of those modern Chinese novel, involving someone from the present got send to the past, and he was using Katana for the most part of the novel, because he knows that he lack the fitness style that require years of learning, and he was doing pretty well for the most part, since the Chinese back then never seen something like that - meaning something that is not huge can pack such a punch. Of course, you can see the author's unspoken comment about katana - it is a great weapon for a lot of people because it is relatively easy to learn, especially if you are willing to be a "power user," but you would start running into problems when you run into someone that can use "soft" strikes to redirect the force, or can hit you before you can finish your strike (katana is longer and heavier than jian by design).

[BaalChaamon]

Originally Posted by Mord

We don't actually know if Clare or Teresa would be able to detect the yoki of someone who is using the yoki suppression pills.

If I remember correctly, while it may take a bit of time Clare has always been capable of detecting the flow of yoki so long as she actually tired to do so. The only exception I can think of is when she had trouble pinpointing the location the yoma in Rabona while she herself was using the pills.

As for Teresa, the only time she had any trouble detecting someone's aura was before Priscilla released and after she began to awaken when the yoki was out of control.

According to the data books, Priscilla's class is "Offensive Type - aura suppression/rapid growth" and her highlighted technique is also her aura suppression. Even in the extra stories while she was an awakened being she was still continuing to suppress her aura to the point that Isley and Rigardo failed to detect the true extent of it.

There is also the possibility that a forced suppression through the use of pills isn't as good as a natural suppression. Personally I'm of the opinion that a natural suppression is better the using the pills. In volume 08 chapter 41, while Clare was using the suppression pills, Jean looked up towards the room Clare was in because she thought she felt something.

Natural supression may or may not be better. We do not know, im simply judging form the fact that the pills change the eye color back to their normal color, thus arguing they could surpass the supression produced by natural talent of the likes of Priscilla and Raphaela.Following your logic, I do believe that Galatea would be able to detect Raphaela despite her natural supression skill, Priscilla is even better at that than Raphaela (Teresa detected her Yoki during her training), so Priscilla could be a totally different story.

Jean felt observed,..heck am I the only one who gets that feeling when someone stares at you!?!With a C in sensing I doubt she can pick up anything or anyone on Yoki supression.
And despite the Yoki supression Galatea was able to assess Clarices and Miata's Yoki level.

Great job Fate Archer.Right on my friend.

[Tempest35]

Mah, I just said SC as a quickstudy. Alot of the movements had to be slowed a bit for non-martial people to play anyway.

~*~

As for random attack vs reaction time...
I'm not saying that martial artists are the 'end all, be all' authority in the application of fighting principles since I doubt if any one of us in here could be considered a master of war so to speak.
'Random' attacks such as the ones that edf91 seems to describe will look like desperation moves to someone who knows how to fight and trained their body in such. It wouldn't matter if the guy's attack is 'totally random with no thought behind it' - those movements are actually slower in comparision to focused attacks with concentration behind them. No matter how 'random' the action is, if it's slow even by a tenth of a second, the other guy can block and counter. 'Totally random' will also mean, to me, that you're not thinking of how to compensate for being off-balance from your swings which will be taken advantage of, believe me.
It's better to make your precise, calculated attacks seem random rather than try to make random attacks seem precise and thought out. If the way you fight looks random but in reality, you have a gameplan and you alter based on the individual situations, then when other people fight you, that little bit of doubt is always at the back of their mind as to what you can and can't do, which only helps you. If it is random, you stand a better chance of being taken down without knowing how it happened.

As for 'Old' vs 'New'...well, that's martial arts philosphical stuff that will get this thread closed since it doesn't have anything to do with Claymore... I'll just say that 'older' isn't always 'better', and just because it's newer, doesn't mean it's 'better' than the traditional stuff either. If ya want, that can be discussed in PM. ^_^ b

~*~

Haaah~ okay, so what were we talking about...? Oh yeah, like Fenrir said - Muscle Memory. I'm sure many know that the more one does a specific task (since it's Claymore, I'll say a slash horizontally from left to right), the easier it becomes. Now, for most people, performing that task until it becomes easy is enough but fighters try and take it a step above and keep practicing said task until it becomes second nature - making it into almost an 'involuntary reaction'. As proficency increases, one will alter or change the slash to experiment with it (Ophelia's Ripple Blade, Irene's QuickSword) and it is in those situations that 'special techniques' are thought of and worked on.

For Irene, she did the exact same thing that she put Clare through - finding her limit as to how long she could maintain Flashsword and how putting additional youki into it affect her control and such. She's come to the point where she can perform Quicksword with little difficulty and visible stress, which makes it look effortless. It may look like a bunch of random strikes but in fact it's not. Each slash has her concentration behind it even at that incredibly high speed - which makes it all the more dangerous, not to mention, makes her incredibly scary. She doesn't have to pick one spot and work it, she can look at an opponent, see the target areas and go for those with Quicksword. The swings aren't random - she's specifically targeting those areas on the opponent in such quick succession that all that could be precieved by the opponent is a sudden flurry of light and metal and that's it. Irene's not someone to chop up an opponent into little pieces for the hell of it, she just goes for the insta-kill and that's it - no wasted motion on her part if she can help it.

Swinging wildly with a nearly awakened arm won't cut it - if anything, the chaotic nature of swinging wildly would most likely help with the Awakening process.

I'll leave Galatea to the Galateaists.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri (aka Wall of Text)

(...)If Teresa is so much better at detail then why can Galatea detect someone supressing their Yoki, while Teresa can't?

I do believe her other senses have enchanced as well.

But she could. Remember when she detected Rafaela when she was a child ?
I think that Teresa knew that another warrior was there (i.e. Priscilla) not only because she sensed her (yeah I believe she could sense Prisiclla and waited for her to get close so she could kill her) but also because she was smart. She knew MiB are far-sighted, first they sent 4 warriors to kill her (propably they thought that even if she rebelled they could kill her, otherwise they would only send one warrior) and then only 3 who she knew ?
On the side note, You wrote some time ago that MiB must have known Teresa's hidden potential. Check out volume 4 page 69. It's clearly said that they underestimated her and knew nothing about her, so Rosemary's execution was considered as nothing out of ordinary.

As for Galatea vs Teresa
Unfortunately we didn't have a chance to see Teresa's extent of youki sensing. Who knows how good could she be after 7 years of training. When Teresa was active world was much safer place, the only powerful beings who could be a problem for her to deal with were AO. She was slacking, fighting only when she had to, going the easiest road. I think that in right circumstances she would even outrun Galatea in youki sensing/manipulating.

[khryoleoz]

Excellent, Gooral! I forgot about the Rafaela event. Take that you Teresa haters!

Anyway, it's true that the only time we've seen Teresa not detect yoki aura was by someone who supressed it "completely". The supression pills is not that gift, and we can see that they don't completely supress as Jean detected Clare from that room while on them. Rafaela's supression was as faint as it could be if we are to believe Rubel's description of her, and Teresa detected it when was a child in training. So she has had the ability for a long time and had years to even improve it to who knows whatever extent, but we know at least that Galatea was not unique in having this ability at a high level. Show me that Galatea could have detected Prisiclla before her awakening and with her yoki completely supressed and I'll be willing to change my mind.

[BaalChaamon]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Excellent, Gooral! I forgot about the Rafaela event. Take that you Teresa haters!

Anyway, it's true that the only time we've seen Teresa not detect yoki aura was by someone who supressed it "completely". The supression pills is not that gift, and we can see that they don't completely supress as Jean detected Clare from that room while on them. So in light of Teresa detecting Rafaela's which was as faint as it could be if we are to believe Rubel's description of her, she has had that ability while she was a child in training. She has had years to even improve it.

Did you even read my previous post?Jean is a C in Yoki sense!She probably just felt observed...man im getting tired of repeating myself and feeling like the only person that notices if someone is starring at me from behind my back.

As for Priscilla, I do believe she is more gifted in supressing her Yoki than Raphaela as she has a higher Yoki level that needs to be supressed so I doubt that Galatea could detect her but detecting Raphaela could be possible.I do believe Teresa simply felt someone's presence there but didnt sense Priscilla's Yoki in the planned back-stabbing ambush.

Anyway, it's true that the only time we've seen Teresa not detect yoki aura was by someone who supressed it "completely". The supression pills is not that gift, and we can see that they don't completely supress as Jean detected Clare from that room while on them. Rafaela's supression was as faint as it could be if we are to believe Rubel's description of her, and Teresa detected it when was a child in training. So she has had the ability for a long time and the years to even improve it.

You said it, if she follow that logic than Teresa was not able to detect Priscilla's "completely" supressed Yoki at all but simply reacted on an instinctive level of precaution when she noticed her behind her back. If she had noticed anything that she would have put implemented that knowledge into her battle plan when fighting in the hotel.I'll leave the Teresa/Priscilla speculations at that.

No doubt Teresa had the innate ability to detect Yoki but if she had had so many years to train it which she surely had, I doubt that she developed a Yoki alignment skill like Galatea's as it didnt suit her fighting style or for other reasons. Surely there have been Eyes before Galatea with immense range and that is not a skill unique to Galatea as Tabs shows.Her unique and 'innate'skill is Yoki alignment, a rudimentary form of soul-link as she says in the episode where she witnesses Alicia&Beth.Her skill enables her to identify Yoki fluctuations in in order to change trajectories and reduce/increase Yoki level in the fashion she pulled Clare back from awakening. Its her combination of using her skill in combat and in various other forms we never seen Teresa use that makes me say she is the superior Yoki sensor, not the superios Yoki-sensor fighter, which is solely Teresa's metier.

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by Gooral

Check out volume 4 page 69. It's clearly said that they underestimated her and knew nothing about her, so Rosemary's execution was considered as nothing out of ordinary.

my volume 4 page 69 doesnt say that. Can you give me a chapter and page number plz.

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by BaalChaamon

Did you even read my previous post?Jean is a C in Yoki sense!She probably just felt observed...man im getting tired of repeating myself.
(...)

You seem to ignore the fact that Teresa FOUND Rafaela in the forest, she went in her
direction. Jean didn't sense youki, Teresa clearly did. Read v12 pages 16-17 again.

-Hey, Sis. Are you a normal human ? I thought I felt a tiny little yoma aura from you. So small it seemed like it would disappear any second.
- A trainee from the organization ?
- Ah, as I thought. Why is your yoma energy like this ?

-------------------------

Originally Posted by Sassarai

my volume 4 page 69 doesnt say that. Can you give me a chapter and page number plz.

Let me be more literal

- This has become troublesome. To think that the strongest among us, Teresa of the faint smile, would rebel

-Hmph! There's nothing to worry about. Summon numbers two through five and have them subdue Teresa

Meaning he thought that warriors 2-5 was sufficient forse to kill Teresa.

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by BaalChaamon

Did you even read my previous post?Jean is a C in Yoki sense!She probably just felt observed...man im getting tired of repeating myself.

As for Priscilla, I do believe she is more gifted in supressing her Yoki than Raphaela as she has a higher Yoki level that needs to be supressed so I doubt that Galatea could detect her but detecting Raphaela could be possible.


No doubt Teresa had the innate ability to detect Yoki but if she had had so many years to train it which she surely has, I doubt that she developed a Yoki alignment skill like Galatea's as it didnt suit her fighting style or for other reasons. Surely there have been eyes before Galatea with immense range and that is not a skill unique to Galatea as Tabs shows.Her unique and 'innate'skill is Yoki alignment, a rudimentary form of soul-link so to speak which enables her to manipulate Yoki to change trajectories and reduce/increase Yoki level in the fashion she pulled Clare back from awakening. Its her combination of using her skill in combat and in various other forms we never seen Teresa use that makes me say she is the superior Yoki sensor, not the superios Yoki-sensor fighter, which is solely Teresa's metier

Thanks for pointing that out. That Jean is a C at sensing doesn't bode well for anyone wanting to advance Galatea's superiority on the basis that she can read the yoki of even those on supression pills. Jean thought she "felt" something accoring to the Viz translation, an observation made by the only sense she could use when someone is hidden from plain sight, a sense that reads "yoki", an ability at which she is ranked "C". So if a "C" can read the faint yoki of someone who is on supression pills, why wouldn't Galatea who is an "A+"? So we can't take that fact alone and say she exceeds Teresa at detection when we've seen Teresa do better with Rafaela.

And I do not and would not make a case for Teresa learning manipulative yoki alignment. What good would it do her if the probability of that being unreliable is higher when she faces a competent opponent than the probability of running into someone whom she can't read. At this point, Galatea and Teresa's sensing abilities are different in their operation that I really can't call one superior over another except with regard to their value. And if the weaknesses of manipulative yoki alignment (which requires detailed sensing) make it less valuable than preemptive detailed sensing, then the latter is superior.

[Sassarai]

The probelm with that arguement is my dear friend gooral is that Fenrir will just say the same thing he has always said.


"There would of been nothing to worry about if only Prissy followed the plan"

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Sassarai

The probelm with that arguement is my dear friend gooral is that Fenrir will just say the same thing he has always said.


"There would of been nothing to worry about if only Prissy followed the plan"

And You believe him ? :P

[Sassarai]

Originally Posted by Gooral

And You believe him ? :P

Did you not see the 20 pages of arguement ~_~? Instead of using the MiBs quote, I used Irene's quote because she made Teresa sound more scary.


"Who would of thought. I was sure that the 4 of us could take her. misjudged her again. and yet she still hasnt released her yoma power."

[BaalChaamon]

Originally Posted by khryoleoz

Thanks for pointing that out. That Jean is a C at sensing doesn't bode well for anyone wanting to advance Galatea's superiority on the basis that she can read the yoki of even those on supression pills. Jean thought she "felt" something accoring to the Viz translation, an observation made by the only sense she could use when someone is hidden from plain sight, a sense that reads "yoki", an ability at which she is ranked "C". So if a "C" can read the faint yoki of someone who is on supression pills, why wouldn't Galatea who is an "A+"?

And I do not and would not make a case for Teresa learning manipulative yoki alignment. What good would it do her if the probability of that being unreliable is higher when you face a competent opponent than the probability of running into someone whom you can't read.

Firstly there is a basic difference between feeling something and being able to read someone's Yoki level. Feeling could be anything!I can feel someone is looking at me without yoki sensor(Claymore's are still half-human not everything they do is related to their yoma powers) but until I can confirm it with my eyes it remains as such:a vague perception, a feeling as such on a very instinctive level.I do believe thats what Jean felt at that time. Following your logic in the claim that she felt something, meaning she could make out someone's faint Yoki signature than there is still a huge gap between feeling and being able to read minute details of someone on Yoki supression.
Your argument has also a flaw when looking at it form the Org. point of view:Why make the effort of putting both Miata and Clarice on Yoki supressants if even a C class sensor as Jean could feel a faint Yoki.They are not stupid enough to underestimate Galatea's Yoki sensor,even without the knowledge of the improvements she has made in the past 7 years

[azurie]

remember Galatea's yoki sensor isn't from radio shack ;P it's top notch hehe

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by BaalChaamon

Firstly there is a basic differene between feeling something and being able to read someone's Yoki level. Feeling could be anything!I can feel someone is looking at me but until I can confirm it with my eyes it remains as such:a vague perception, a feeling as such.I do believe thats what Jean felt at that time. Following your logic in the claim that she felt something, meaning she could make out someone's Yoki signature than there is still a huge gap between feeling and being able to read minute details of someone on Yoki supression.
Your argument has also a flaw when looking at it form the Org. point of view:Why make the effort of putting both Miata and Clarice on Yoki supressants if even a C class sensor as Jean could feel a faint Yoki.They are not stupid enough to underestimate Galatea's Yoki sensor,even without the knowledge of the improvements she has made in the past 7 years

Firstly Jean didn't sense youki, otherwise she would have said that she felt some miniscule yoma aura. Clare was staring at them and hid the moment Jean turned her head, it's not surprising then that Jean knew/thought someone was observing her. Also don't compare half-awakened Claymore and Rafaela - claymore who suppressed her youki completely.

You seem to ignore the fact that Teresa FOUND Rafaela in the forest, she went in her direction. Jean didn't sense youki, Teresa clearly did. Read v12 pages 16-17 again.

-Hey, Sis. Are you a normal human ? I thought I felt a tiny little yoma aura from you. So small it seemed like it would disappear any second.
- A trainee from the organization ?
- Ah, as I thought. Why is your yoma energy like this ?

[khryoleoz]

Originally Posted by BaalChaamon

Firstly there is a basic difference between feeling something and being able to read someone's Yoki level. Feeling could be anything!I can feel someone is looking at me but until I can confirm it with my eyes it remains as such:a vague perception, a feeling as such on a very instinctive level.I do believe thats what Jean felt at that time. Following your logic in the claim that she felt something, meaning she could make out someone's faint Yoki signature than there is still a huge gap between feeling and being able to read minute details of someone on Yoki supression.
Your argument has also a flaw when looking at it form the Org. point of view:Why make the effort of putting both Miata and Clarice on Yoki supressants if even a C class sensor as Jean could feel a faint Yoki.They are not stupid enough to underestimate Galatea's Yoki sensor,even without the knowledge of the improvements she has made in the past 7 years

First, let me add that ALL Claymores sense yoki. It's just a matter of the degree to which that sense can detect the detail and at what range it is limited.

If you follow the word's contextual use, feel is equivocal to read. Unless you empirically observe an object with any of the senses, you do not call that feeling an observation but a suspicion. I'll grant you this possibility but not likelihood. The instinct you speak of must still be activated by a certain observation. Jean does not seem to be a suspicious type but observant, and here she observes someone being there whom she cannot see, hear, smell, and touch but "feel". Feel with what?

I don't advance that what Jean did is anywhere on the scale of what Galatea does. But the org is known to rely on stuff that fails at times, so why wouldn't we find them placing a certain degree of faith on the pills that is not actually warranted?