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GDB · 2020-10-21, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by justavisitor

That's not how we earthling fight. We earthling are used to fight dirty!!! Guess Goku doesn't have that trojan horse story in his universe

Ok, so goku is still invincible in this chapter, but it's still 99% of his fault. He still doesn't want to kill him before Moro fusing with Earth...he was just trying to take him to the prison by force....cell did not get this treatment, buu did not get this treatment, so why Moro gets the special offer all of a sudden??

Cell is an odd case, but Buu couldn't be reasoned with so he has an excuse there.

But otherwise this is rather consistent... sadly. Apparently Goku isn't allowed to grow as a character and ever learn from his mistakes.

Kanon · 2020-10-21, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Cell is an odd case, but Buu couldn't be reasoned with so he has an excuse there.

But otherwise this is rather consistent... sadly. Apparently Goku isn't allowed to grow as a character and ever learn from his mistakes.

I love how people defend Goku's attitude in this chapter by saying he's done this plenty of times before without realizing that's exactly the problem.

What happened to the Goku who didn't want to be revived after Cell was killed because he realized he's usually the reason Earth is in danger? Felt like he had learned something here.

justavisitor · 2020-10-21, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Cell is an odd case, but Buu couldn't be reasoned with so he has an excuse there.

But otherwise this is rather consistent... sadly. Apparently Goku isn't allowed to grow as a character and ever learn from his mistakes.

Well, back in the cell saga, I thought Goku telling his son to finish cell quickly was not out of his character. He was portrayed as an experienced warrior back then and I could even argue it was a character growth for goku at that time.

I guess, when sayians get stronger than their opponent, they start to utter nonsense. It's in their genes

Except for future trunks of course

Tong · 2020-10-22, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

What happened to the Goku who didn't want to be revived after Cell was killed because he realized he's usually the reason Earth is in danger?

Cop out to end the series, but his editor was having none of that.

Kanon · 2020-10-22, 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Well, back in the cell saga, I thought Goku telling his son to finish cell quickly was not out of his character. He was portrayed as an experienced warrior back then and I could even argue it was a character growth for goku at that time.

Oh yeah, there was that too! Goku actually gave Gohan the same advice Whis gave him in this chapter.

azenable · 2020-10-22, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I love how people defend Goku's attitude in this chapter by saying he's done this plenty of times before without realizing that's exactly the problem.

What happened to the Goku who didn't want to be revived after Cell was killed because he realized he's usually the reason Earth is in danger? Felt like he had learned something here.

All he actually wanted was to train and fight in the other world TBH lol

DragonOsman · 2020-10-22, 12:14

The Other World tournament and everything was anime-only. He did learn SSJ3 there, but the tournament isn't shown in the manga. Just saying.

And Goku was about to kill Moro when Whis told him to. He just took too long. Made the same mistake Vegeta made against Frieza in the Resurrection of Frieza arc.

There are two ways to fix this mess:
1. Have Vegeta and Goku fuse and then have them use Spirit Fission to separate Moro from Earth and kill him.
2. Have Whis turn back time to before Moro fused with the Earth and then have Goku kill him before he does the fusion.

Option 2 would be a repeat of how Frieza was dealt with when he came back in Super, but they already did a rehash of what happened with Cell.

GDB · 2020-10-22, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Except for future trunks of course

Main reason he's my favorite character.

Also why I'm super sad that he didn't stick around in the present where people knew and cared about him, rather than going to an alternate future that isn't his where he'll just be "the other, weird Trunks."

Galaxian · 2020-10-22, 16:37

Basically, now that Goku can go into MUI at will and without any drawbacks, the only real threat to Earth is himself...

GDB · 2020-10-22, 16:41

On the MUI thing, it basically just put a life expectancy on the series. I can see, at most, one more arc without them just doing slice of life nonsense. Their only potential threats left are angels and demons, so next arc has to be one of those.

Unless Goku gets his MUI sealed by Whis because he doesn't like it anymore or something.

DragonOsman · 2020-10-22, 18:12

I wouldn't like it if it got sealed after he finally got it mastered. Whis should just knock some sense into sense into him so he doesn't pull shit like this again (oh, if only this were possible with Goku).

I'm still wondering if Goku can't combine Ultra Instinct with SSJ Blue.

Galaxian · 2020-10-22, 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Unless Goku gets his MUI sealed by Whis because he doesn't like it anymore or something.

Maybe as punishment for allowing Moro to gain angel powers, Whis would erase the time Goku spent training with Meerus.

It could also be that Goku gives up his mastery of the state in exchange of brining Meerus back... Though I like the other one better because f**k Goku at this point...

Tong · 2020-10-22, 21:23

Hey, dont forget there's still a new DBS movie in the making and, apparently, it might be featuring Cooler.

Sixth · 2020-10-23, 00:23

Now I understand why do people prefer Naruto over Goku as their roommate in other forum, because at least Naruto wouldn't get their room blew up because of his selfishness.

GDB · 2020-10-23, 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I wouldn't like it if it got sealed after he finally got it mastered. Whis should just knock some sense into sense into him so he doesn't pull shit like this again (oh, if only this were possible with Goku).

I'm still wondering if Goku can't combine Ultra Instinct with SSJ Blue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Maybe as punishment for allowing Moro to gain angel powers, Whis would erase the time Goku spent training with Meerus.

It could also be that Goku gives up his mastery of the state in exchange of brining Meerus back... Though I like the other one better because f**k Goku at this point...

Ultra Instinct is just bad. Let's just get rid of it entirely. Not reset him back to not having it mastered, but just get rid of it entirely. It makes everything boring as hell. It's basically "what if Vegito and Gogeta fused and didn't have a time limit" at this point.

SilverGlavenus · 2020-10-23, 18:45

Dragonball is the Iphone of the manga world, incremental changes, same logic. Goku reverted from the guy who pushed Gohan to finish Cell back to this stupid shit.

DragonOsman · 2020-10-23, 19:35

This is also still the same Goku that had to come back in time to kill Frieza because Vegeta took too long and let Earth get blown up. He just made the same mistake here that Vegeta made at that time. It could be fixed in a similar way or by using Spirit Fission on Moro again.

justavisitor · 2020-10-23, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB

Ultra Instinct is just bad. Let's just get rid of it entirely. Not reset him back to not having it mastered, but just get rid of it entirely. It makes everything boring as hell. It's basically "what if Vegito and Gogeta fused and didn't have a time limit" at this point.

While I agree that Ultra Instinct could stagnate the story...but erasing Ultra Instinct could be unwise. Dragonball always has a direct comparison between the two strongest characters...Buu saga was perhaps the first time to break that rule and immediately we have those silly debates like SSJ3 Goku vs Ultimate Gohan and Ultimate Gohan vs Kid Buu that still exist today

Fast forward to Beerus...nowadays we have all those talks that Beerus could have stomped Golden Frizea/Hit/Jiren/Broly/Angel Moro

Take away the Ultra Instinct...oh man..that "Ultra Instinct could have easily handled whoever" talk could last the whole century

GDB · 2020-10-23, 23:13

I'm fine with that if it means we get actually interesting stories again. If we're forced to get awful stories until the series gets canceled again just so people won't argue as much... screw it, not worth it.

And let's be fair, Golden Frieza and Hit aren't anything compared to Beerus. It doesn't get murky until Jiren and Broly (the former because he was stronger than his GoD, and we don't know how that GoD pairs up to Beerus other than being weaker, but we don't know by how much, and the latter because by definition his power is undefined).

Chosen_Hero · 2020-10-24, 00:11

DBZ fans: "Wait, Goku's stupid?"

DBS Manga: "Always has been."

Me:

2020-10-22, 12:14	Link #907
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	The Other World tournament and everything was anime-only. He did learn SSJ3 there, but the tournament isn't shown in the manga. Just saying. And Goku was about to kill Moro when Whis told him to. He just took too long. Made the same mistake Vegeta made against Frieza in the Resurrection of Frieza arc. There are two ways to fix this mess: 1. Have Vegeta and Goku fuse and then have them use Spirit Fission to separate Moro from Earth and kill him. 2. Have Whis turn back time to before Moro fused with the Earth and then have Goku kill him before he does the fusion. Option 2 would be a repeat of how Frieza was dealt with when he came back in Super, but they already did a rehash of what happened with Cell. __________________

2020-10-22, 18:12	Link #911
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	I wouldn't like it if it got sealed after he finally got it mastered. Whis should just knock some sense into sense into him so he doesn't pull shit like this again (oh, if only this were possible with Goku). I'm still wondering if Goku can't combine Ultra Instinct with SSJ Blue. __________________

2020-10-22, 21:23	Link #913
Tong Many RPGs, Little Time Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: BR Age: 32	Hey, dont forget there's still a new DBS movie in the making and, apparently, it might be featuring Cooler. __________________

2020-10-23, 19:35	Link #917
DragonOsman Dragon King Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Al Khobar, Saudi Arabia Age: 34	This is also still the same Goku that had to come back in time to kill Frieza because Vegeta took too long and let Earth get blown up. He just made the same mistake here that Vegeta made at that time. It could be fixed in a similar way or by using Spirit Fission on Moro again. __________________

2020-10-24, 00:11	Link #920
Chosen_Hero Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014	DBZ fans: "Wait, Goku's stupid?" DBS Manga: "Always has been." Me: __________________

2020-10-22, 16:37	Link #909
Galaxian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	Basically, now that Goku can go into MUI at will and without any drawbacks, the only real threat to Earth is himself...

2020-10-22, 16:41	Link #910
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	On the MUI thing, it basically just put a life expectancy on the series. I can see, at most, one more arc without them just doing slice of life nonsense. Their only potential threats left are angels and demons, so next arc has to be one of those. Unless Goku gets his MUI sealed by Whis because he doesn't like it anymore or something.

2020-10-23, 00:23	Link #914
Sixth Hu Tao Join Date: Oct 2006	Now I understand why do people prefer Naruto over Goku as their roommate in other forum, because at least Naruto wouldn't get their room blew up because of his selfishness.

2020-10-23, 18:45	Link #916
SilverGlavenus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Somewhere in this Universe	Dragonball is the Iphone of the manga world, incremental changes, same logic. Goku reverted from the guy who pushed Gohan to finish Cell back to this stupid shit.

2020-10-23, 23:13	Link #919
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	I'm fine with that if it means we get actually interesting stories again. If we're forced to get awful stories until the series gets canceled again just so people won't argue as much... screw it, not worth it. And let's be fair, Golden Frieza and Hit aren't anything compared to Beerus. It doesn't get murky until Jiren and Broly (the former because he was stronger than his GoD, and we don't know how that GoD pairs up to Beerus other than being weaker, but we don't know by how much, and the latter because by definition his power is undefined).