(CR) Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu

[mangalowres]

Hehe Naaa I am still a noob and that "I think that mine from this show are better" was more like a joke

And that boyxboy was more like a shock for Haruka

[Taiyakikung]

Is there really the Innocent smile magazine in Japan?

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Hint: if the female has her name on the title, then she has practically 'won' already. I mean, let's not kid ourselves, whoever thought that anyone but the the title characters in shows like Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, Shakugan no Shana, and Suzuka had any chance of 'winning' was basically deluding themsleves.

So yeah, Shiina won't serve much purpose other than being the rival in love who has no chance. Won't stop people from sympathizing with her though.

That coming from you XD

I'm sure you would be too if shiina was a childhood friend XD

[Midonin]

Originally Posted by Taiyakikung

Is there really the Innocent smile magazine in Japan?

No searches return anything, so it's a part of the show's universe only.

[technomo12]

OMG!!!!!!!!!! i soo like that shana spoof time hahaha and note she also wanted to do taht hahahaha

[Kaoru Chujo]

I think I understand and I certainly respect where Sorrow-K is coming from on episode 4, but my reactions to the things he points out are completely different. (his comments in italics):

Completely flat and boring episode. Let's see, list of complaints. The Shana reference was Lucky Star-ish, in that it had no relevance to the plot and was completely disconnected from the events that happened immediately before and after it....
Not boring in the least, for me. The "irrelevance" of the Shana reference was why it was so good. It showed us that this is not a simple kids' show version of sneaking after a friend, but should be taken ironically. I was completely surprised when she stepped out of hiding like that. It was great. Then again, I think Lucky Star was one of the 3-4 most enjoyable anime broadcast last year.

Shiina's scene felt like it could have been ripped out of a dating sim; it was basically the standard "random encounter with potential love interest" scene you see early on in those types of series.
And this is a problem why? It primes us for the appearance of this interesting side character so that her future role will be more interesting.

The wedding photo scene was total wish fulfillment, as was Haruka's unbelievable innocence.
All popular literature, from Tom Clancy to Mushishi, involves wish fulfillment. This one is just doing an excellent job of it, so far. And we have an ironic, comically unrealistic, level in this show that gives the full-on wish fulfillment an extra richness, as well. In Simplicity's blog post about this show, she singles out the wedding scene as an example of outstanding romantic comedy writing. That's what I think, too. Who on Earth would ever have expected that scene? She refers to the writers as "romance ninjas," lol.

Haruka herself is becoming more and more a contradiction of elements of the idealized otaku girlfriend. She's shy, innocent and clumsy, needing to depend on the male lead, yet she's the one that always makes the first move on Yuuto, already asking him out, what is it, like three times now, and then in the wedding photo scene where she grabs Yuuto's arm.
It is a principle of screenwriting to construct a character based on internal contradictions. She's a martial artist, but clumsy. She's brilliant but innocent. How much "realism" is required in a comedy anime? Less for me than for you. And I don't find it contradictory that she's shy but so happy to have someone she can be open with that she really wants Yuuto to come with her on her expeditions.

And finally the Hazuki conflict ended completely predictably, with it turning out that they were making a big deal out of nothing and everything was just a misunderstanding. Who didn't see that coming?
Everyone saw it coming, but that's not a negative. It's part of the construction of the episode, making possible the humor of the chase without spurious tension.

This show is too transparent, and everything's so utterly simple which makes it boring. I could forgive it if it were at least funny, but it's not even that, since the jokes are so mindless. I really can't see much hope for this turning out to be all too much more than wish fulfillment.
Wish fulfillment well done. The simplicity and outrageous straightforwardness are just wonderful. And the show is very funny. Funny and endearing all round. There are no negative characters in this show at all, so far. For me, this is a good thing.

[amjzz]

Watched ep 03...

Whoa...in japan people see the anime fans that bad? Or is just part of the anime fantasy plot?.

In the episode they made it look like something really disgusting and bad...is that how japan see anime fans in real life?.

Oh, it was a good episode with some funny moments...

[Mushi]

This looks like a fun series... and Haruka is kawaii! Guess I'll have to follow this one.

Originally Posted by amjzz

Whoa...in japan people see the anime fans that bad? Or is just part of the anime fantasy plot?.

To give some perspective, consider what kj1980 once wrote:

And of course, Japan is an image conscious society. As I said earlier, the Japanese philosophy of social harmony (or, "wa") is basically an euphemism in saying "you are with us, or you are not - and if you are not, tough luck." Hence, I do not openly say that I am an otaku nor avidly remark that I love to watch anime and play ero-games - for the risk of being cold-shouldered by my co-workers and that it may infringe on my advancement...or even worse, being laid off for any reason the corporation may decide to utilize upon me just to get rid of "a psycho that disrupts the harmony of our company." Perhaps there are several other co-workers in my company that share the same interest in anime and ero-games as I do...but since they don't go out and proclaim themselves as anime fans and neither do I, we will never know.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...10&postcount=7

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

That coming from you XD

I'm sure you would be too if shiina was a childhood friend XD

Hey, for the record, I was practically one of the first (if not the first) to actually voice his opinion of wanting to see Shiina play a major role in this series, so I'm already sympathetic for her. Must be the 'root for the underdog' effect that has been ingrained in my from rooting too much osana-najimis, as in a lot of other series, they do seem to be underdog.

It's really no different from my sympathy to another red-head in a series both you and I hold in high regard (a Kasai series as a clue, if I'm being too vague), even before her defeat seemed inevitable. Usually such 'rival-in-love' characters drasyically drop down in my moe metre the moment they go against an osana-najimi, but for some reason not so for these two characters.

[sekidousai]

Although i'm not Japanese, i have known long time ago that Otaku is not a very good term in Japan and yes it started with the Miazaki incident and forever since Otaku is associated with it. And recently i believe there was a sad incident that happend in akihabara that tarnished the term otaku even more T_T.

[amjzz]

Originally Posted by sekidousai

Miazaki incident

Um...what incident?.

Also, it means that people in japan hate anime fans and think that anime/manga is disgusting?.

Theres a difference between indiference and hate....

[sekidousai]

Miyazaki incident was a serial murder+rape+slay case, if you read mushi's post

Angry Otaku sends bones to Tokyo TV here (2006)

Akihabara stabbing 7 people dead here

Nice Boat ^^;

[FireChick]

Spoiler:

the fact that Haruka was instantely looked down because of the Comiket mag was a little too extrem for me. She passed from being an idol to a otaku. I just want to beat them all!

Well, that's not that bad. Yuuto's and Haruka's relationship is getting stronger thanks to that (small) event.

And yeah, don't make Haruka angry.. she can threw you without sweat.

Although I don't watch this show, I know how Haruka feels about being looked down upon if people find out she's an otaku. I don't want people to know that I like anime because I'm scared that they'll make fun of me about it, use it against me, pronounce Japanese words wrong, or just bully me about it for the rest of my school year. I'd rather show my anime hobbies to others who like anime (or autistic people since I'm autistic myself).

[Sorrow-K]

OK, I'll bite.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Not boring in the least, for me. The "irrelevance" of the Shana reference was why it was so good. It showed us that this is not a simple kids' show version of sneaking after a friend, but should be taken ironically. I was completely surprised when she stepped out of hiding like that. It was great. Then again, I think Lucky Star was one of the 3-4 most enjoyable anime broadcast last year.

My first thought when this happened was, weren't they following Hazuki, who can apparently detect people from fifty metres away, and they were supposed to be ultra careful when following her. Then Haruka steps out. How did Hazuki not realize by then that she was being followed. But the Lucky Star/Family Guy school of pop culture references has never been my idea of how you write a good reference. They tend to come up with the most flimsy excuses to have a reference. Just like in this scene. At least the Ueda Kana reference later on had some sort of relevance to the plot. Have a look at something like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei or Minami-ke for examples of well done references. Minami-ke kept them sparse (and a little general) so it was always a bit of a surprise when they turned up, while SZS's references were almost always relevant to what was happening at that moment. It's much funnier when the reason for having a reference is a little more solid, one is more likely to find the use of the reference clever, than just going "is that a Shakugan no Shana reference, OMG it IS a Shakugan no Shana reference, I recognize that cos I've seen Shakugan no Shana, isn't that funny AHAHAHA".

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

And this is a problem why? It primes us for the appearance of this interesting side character so that her future role will be more interesting.

It's a problem because the dating-sim vibe was so strong. The set up, the events, the dialogue, the suddenly disappearing afterwards, Haruka conveniently going missing at the time. The scene just struck me as if it were ripped from a fairly generic dating sim. This was why it was a problem. It was a generic scene from a different genre.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

All popular literature, from Tom Clancy to Mushishi, involves wish fulfillment. This one is just doing an excellent job of it, so far. And we have an ironic, comically unrealistic, level in this show that gives the full-on wish fulfillment an extra richness, as well. In Simplicity's blog post about this show, she singles out the wedding scene as an example of outstanding romantic comedy writing. That's what I think, too. Who on Earth would ever have expected that scene? She refers to the writers as "romance ninjas," lol.

All literature has a certain level of wish-fulfillment (and I've never much liked Tom Clancy), but there's absolutely no subtlety to this at all. Every single moment like the wedding scene one, I feel like I'm being hit by a sledgehammer of wish fulfillment. I prefer anime/literature to have some sort of level of subtlety or restraint in what it does, not so much in comedy (the non-romantic variety) where subtlety and restraint don't always serve, but certainly in romance and drama.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

It is a principle of screenwriting to construct a character based on internal contradictions. She's a martial artist, but clumsy. She's brilliant but innocent. How much "realism" is required in a comedy anime? Less for me than for you. And I don't find it contradictory that she's shy but so happy to have someone she can be open with that she really wants Yuuto to come with her on her expeditions.

There's ironic contradictions and there's convenient contradictions, and this one is the latter. And let's separate out comedy from romantic comedy, since they're different types of genres. I have a simple criteria for comedy: that it makes me laugh (and this show isn't really winning me over on that front), but romantic comedy is a different kettle of fish since a lot of it is relationship driven and the relationship itself comes under a different type of scrutiny. The characters should be made to be sympathetic, the reasons why they love each other should make sense and the premise and plot progression should make sense and be believable given the context of the story and setting. I'm not buying Haruka, and it's those very contradictions, as well as her general character and personality design, which makes me think that she's been written less as a character in a romance comedy based in a universe that largely resembles our own, and more as the absolute in otaku-dreamgirls. Yes, anime has its share of idealized girls, but Haruka is a supermodel in that respect and she's been designed to target very specific desires in her audience, such as the innocence, the interest in anime, and the fact that, when it comes to advancing the relationship, she's the aggressor, the one that invariably makes the first move. If this were an ironic contradiction, I'd find it interesting, but it really strikes me as a convenient contradiction.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Everyone saw it coming, but that's not a negative. It's part of the construction of the episode, making possible the humor of the chase without spurious tension.

A plot device. A pretty blatant and transparent one too. Yeah, I saw that...

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Wish fulfillment well done. The simplicity and outrageous straightforwardness are just wonderful. And the show is very funny. Funny and endearing all round. There are no negative characters in this show at all, so far. For me, this is a good thing.

Well, if you like that sort of thing, but I'm finding this show so unchallenging and transparent. I was expecting more from this show as well, but it's pretty clear that its goal is to give its audience exactly what it wants without resistance or conflict (or very faux conflict, as will inevitably be the case with Shiina). Very uninteresting, if I may say so.

[sakuravs]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

This show is too transparent, and everything's so utterly simple which makes it boring. I could forgive it if it were at least funny, but it's not even that, since the jokes are so mindless. I really can't see much hope for this turning out to be all too much more than wish fulfillment.

This show is one of those moe anime whose main purpose is to please viewers' eyes & fish them with good art & fanservice. So I agree with kilroy0097 that rather to enjoy the cute character design than concerning too much story-wise.
For a good in-depth, psychological, philosophical, romantic story, probably it's better to find & play some pure-love J visual novel games instead of watching anime.

[Sylphic]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

Yes, hence why she's into Shakugan no Shana.

Ep 4

Completely flat and boring episode. Let's see, list of complaints. The Shana reference was Lucky Star-ish, in that it had no relevance to the plot and was completely disconnected from the events that happened immediately before and after it, in other words, a reference for the sake of a reference. Shiina's scene felt like it could have been ripped out of a dating sim; it was basically the standard "random encounter with potential love interest" scene you see early on in those types of series. The wedding photo scene was total wish fulfillment, as was Haruka's unbelievable innocence. Haruka herself is becoming more and more a contradiction of elements of the idealized otaku girlfriend. She's shy, innocent and clumsy, needing to depend on the male lead, yet she's the one that always makes the first move on Yuuto, already asking him out, what is it, like three times now, and then in the wedding photo scene where she grabs Yuuto's arm. And finally the Hazuki conflict ended completely predictably, with it turning out that they were making a big deal out of nothing and everything was just a misunderstanding. Who didn't see that coming?

This show is too transparent, and everything's so utterly simple which makes it boring. I could forgive it if it were at least funny, but it's not even that, since the jokes are so mindless. I really can't see much hope for this turning out to be all too much more than wish fulfillment.

Sorrow-K if you hate the show so much, why the heck are you watching it? No one is forcing you to watch it at gun point. If you don't appreciate the show for what it is, go watch something else. Something out there will satisfy your picky tastes, I would hope to god you realized that it isn't this one by now.

[Nemo_N]

He-he-he.

I love it when people throw around the wish-fulfillment label; they make it sound as if they knew what the people watching this show is wishing for.

Where do they sell these mind-reading helmets?

[Mushi]

Finished the 4 episodes. Enjoyed them all. I'll be following it.

Yeah, it's a bit contrived, pandering to the otaku/moe crowd, but I happen to like getting a good dose of that now and then. I may have only gotten a few genuine laughs out of it, but I had a smile on my face most of the time just from the "D'aw she's just TOO CUTE!" factor. So, for what it is, it works.

[FateAnomaly]

I think the circumstances around this anime is pretty ridiculous. Most anime are unrealistic and i accept it that way but the plot here seems to be really convenient.

An absolutely rich girl had to borrow a magazine from the library. Break her piggy bank to buy a psp. Yes her father don't approve so she had to use her own money? from whom? Surely she don't work part time or something. Yet her younger sister her the money to buy lingerie. Unless her parents are absolutely biased against her and absolutely don't give her any allowance at all. Sneaking into the school, maybe they climbed. Surely the library will be locked or perhaps they picked the lock.

She is the idol of the school. When she dropped the catalogue, people immediately start to gossip against her thinking that she is an otaku instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt given her high reputation.

[Cat Megex]

Originally Posted by Nemo_N

Where do they sell these mind-reading helmets?

Akihabara.