AnimeSuki Forums

Dextro · 2009-03-06, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Edit - AQS subs are out in Mininova if anyone cares.

Just watched them and damn am I sad now... Still it's as someone already said in this thread: this wasn't has crushing as the previous events simple because I (and I'm guessing most people) have already given up hope at this point... Key made it very clear by this point that they are in this to crush every hopes and dreams we might possibly have about that pairing so we just have the feeling of hopelessness as we are given the plot along the way...

And that cliffhanger with the grayed out images just gets me thinking that the ending will be entirely dependent on Tomoya's willpower and I don't see how he could have much left in him, I know I wouldn't have.

Rice_slayer · 2009-03-06, 09:29

Jesus, I am only part way through fuuko's arc in the game, won't catch up now :P. Anyways this episode was depressing start to finish and

Spoiler for Final scene:

9/10. Not bad, but the end left me too confused for a 10 :P.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-03-06, 09:59

Well the ending of the episode being considered as a cliffhanger probably depends more on your familiarity with the plot and characters than anything else, which is a blessing to gamers and maybe a more an "Oh nose!" to none gamers. Gamers already know what can happen next, none gamers will be left wondering just how imoprtant it is.

But I won't say anymore. Beyond here is speculative anyway.

Yukinokesshou · 2009-03-06, 10:57

Speaking of the cliffhanger, only one of two possibilities can lead to a next episode. I hope this isn't a spoiler... I don't think anyone who hasn't played the game could make sense of this =p

Whoever said this episode evokes different emotions from eps 16 and 18 is spot-on (sorry I forgot your name... you posted on page 1). I didn't feel any strong emotions here, just calm.

Key's stories make absolutely no sense at all, but they somehow fit together in a completely random way and Kyoani does a good job adapting them. Incidentally, do you think there is a Shinto or Buddhist basis behind Key's plots or is it just the imagination of one sadistic man? At the very least, Air seemed to have religious overtones (reincarnation, "kami", etc.)... maybe it's the same for Clannad?

8/10 (yes, that's a very high rating from me; I've only given 10/10 once, for episode 18)

TakezoSama · 2009-03-06, 11:12

I can't really criticize Tomoya taking Ushio on a trip. When Ushio insisted on going on a trip with her father, maybe he understood that her time was almost up; Her stubborness might have remembered him of her mother ;] (I wanna have a child!)

Also, when My grandma was dying at the hospital, she did wish to get back to her house; We, however, kept her at the hospital because "it was common sense that hospitals are better for sick people" - and so she was kept there... Dying two days later, alone, around midnight at the hospital. She could've used her parents around her and her own bed to pass away.

I still don't get what'll come at the final ep, but I'd like for some miracle to occur like Kanon.... But since there wasn't any miracle-related talk between the characters, that prolly won't occur

If a revolver's on a stage it'll prolly be shot. Even after saying that, cant be sure what'll happen

Jimmy C · 2009-03-06, 11:20

He should have taken her months earlier, when it was still summer.
Hint: They did talk about something related to miracles, quite a while ago.

jenthehen · 2009-03-06, 11:24

Just in case people haven't seen the episode yet:

Spoiler:

velvet · 2009-03-06, 11:26

Borderline sadistic.

Seeing this animated hurts. I can't count how many times I look the other way.
I can't stand watching a child like that.

The ending part with Nagisa, felt a lot like fresh water in the middle of the desert, Rejuvenation. Now I'm sure I can live through this week.
Replaying those sadistic scenes in my head for the next 7days.

Divini · 2009-03-06, 11:32

I don't think this invoked as much raw emotion as previous episodes, but it did have me feeling one very strong emotion throughout nigh the entire episode...

... and that is the sense of utter hopelessness. That was probably the goal of the original VN, I would guess, and if it was, it worked very well here. I had a feeling since the last scene of episode 20 that something bad would happen to Ushio, and the worse possible thing did happen. That last "I love you" by Ushio broke the dam of those feelings that was building in me as I watched the events unfold in a horribly anxious and foreboding mood.

I have to say kudos to KyoAni for making me feel like total crap for 20 straight minutes. (this is a compliment in the highest regard of course)

Poor Ushio... and poor Tomoya also. The guy just never is allowed a chance to be happy...

panzerfan · 2009-03-06, 11:36

On a second revisit, I am rather glad that Maeda Jun at least had the decency to leave out everyone else that's been by the side of Tomoya from the lights out of Ushio.

Would anyone want to see the face of Kyou after being told that Ushio is to stay at home indefinitely? Should one want to see Youhei desparately skipping work and packing part of his meager salaries over his his troubled friend? Shall one peer at Tomoyo reading about how that a new mall is to be built? Might one imagine the look from Fuko when told that Tomoya has stopped working? One dread seeing Kotomi being given the crushing blow that Ushio has perished... and worst of all, dare one stare at the face of Akio and Sanae as the dust settles?

I feel that Ushio is aware that her time's up as well. It ruins my appetite in how that both the father and child acknowledged the inevitable while maintaining full mental faculty. Arguably, 5 years old is still too early to learn of mortality of others, yet here Ushio is knowing of her own mortality.

Tomoya hates the town, perhaps rightly so out of this...

MeoTwister5 · 2009-03-06, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by panzerfan

On a second revisit, I am rather glad that Maeda Jun at least had the decency to leave out everyone else that's been by the side of Tomoya from the lights out of Ushio.

Would anyone want to see the face of Kyou after being told that Ushio is to stay at home indefinitely? Should one want to see Youhei desparately skipping work and packing part of his meager salaries over his his troubled friend? Shall one peer at Tomoyo reading about how that a new mall is to be built? Might one imagine the look from Fuko when told that Tomoya has stopped working? One dread seeing Kotomi being given the crushing blow that Ushio has perished... and worst of all, dare one stare at the face of Akio and Sanae as the dust settles?

I feel that Ushio is aware that her time's up as well. It ruins my appetite in how that both the father and child acknowledged the inevitable while maintaining full mental faculty. Arguably, 5 years old is still too early to learn of mortality of others, yet here Ushio is knowing of her own mortality.

Tomoya hates the town, perhaps rightly so out of this...

Presenting everyone else almost suffering themselves to help him goes way beyond melodrama, thank god the VN didn't do it, because it'll just leave an extremely forced plot progression to evoke emotion and what not.

And since the next episode's title is known, are we allowed to talk about the song now?

Kinny Riddle · 2009-03-06, 12:11

Good job in building up to the climax. Compared to episode 16, where they jumped straight to Torch after that sad scene with Tomoya declaring he should never have met Nagisa and face such sadness, I think the last couple of scenes leading up to Torch was slightly better.

This is because this time the viewer has time to adapt from the sadness of Ushio departing and Tomoya collapsing, and then suddenly perplexed with a similar scene in the Illusionary World, and finally Tomoya once again deciding whether he should talk to Nagisa back in that scene.

Still, it would've been better to just have blacked out credits with sad music, or even no music.

The building of the hospital affected Nagisa, and now there's a construction of a shopping centre, which affects Ushio.

Akio shows why he's the man again by reminding Tomoya that he's Ushio's father, and so should reassure Ushio her father's fine.

Yoshino's a cool boss if there ever was one, saying he's just "borrowing" Tomoya's tools, expecting him to return even after he decides to resign to take care of Ushio.

I wouldn't call Tomoya's decision to take Ushio out in such a blizzard as cruel, as he and even Ushio herself reckoned her time is up, and so Tomoya felt he should at least grant her her final wish of going on a trip.

And finally, notice Ushio's "final" snow trek in the Real World parallels the Girl's "final" snow trek in the Illusionary World. That alone is a huge hint, if you still don't get it, then just be patient and wait for another seven days.

Ascaloth · 2009-03-06, 12:17

Episode 21 article is up:

[RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 21

By far, one of the hardest RIUVA articles I have ever had to write. There's no grief anymore, just hopelessness. 9/10, for the sole remaining mystery in the "full circle" of the last minutes of this episode.

Nerroth · 2009-03-06, 13:44

I felt bad going into this morning, after a heart-wrenching sport result last night...

...but this just makes me feel even worse.

Sigh.

alu546 · 2009-03-06, 14:28

Spoiler:

PNGO · 2009-03-06, 14:30

omg

Spoiler for episode:

SaintessHeart · 2009-03-06, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by alu546

Spoiler:

No. Refer to episode 4 from S1, somewhere around the middle where Nagisa is trying to ask Ryou to join the Theater Club.

alu546 · 2009-03-06, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

No. Refer to episode 4 from S1, somewhere around the middle where Nagisa is trying to ask Ryou to join the Theater Club.

Just checked, and I didnt see anything contrary to what I said, so youll have to point it out for me.

Ruhisu · 2009-03-06, 15:42

I could stand this episode watching how my sweet little Ushio-chan is dying

KEY!!
I won't forgive you this!!

Ryuou · 2009-03-06, 16:08

Someone mentioned earlier about how Ushio is just repeating the tragedy that befell Nagisa (in an almost karmic/destined sense) and that got me thinking about that one forest. Couldn't Tomoya take Ushio to that forest that Akio took Nagisa to when she was about to die? Or has building that hospital destroyed its magical powers? If their demise is paralleled then the methods to save them should be as well. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

I also had something else to say but I unfortunately forgot it. Maybe it'll come back to me in a little while. I should've written it down when I thought about it last night.

View Poll Results: Clannad ~After Story~ - Episode 21 Rating
Perfect 10	96	53.93%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	43	24.16%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	12	6.74%
7 out of 10 : Good	14	7.87%
6 out of 10 : Average	6	3.37%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	2	1.12%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	5	2.81%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll

2009-03-06, 09:29	Link #42
Rice_slayer Resident Car Buff Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Regina, Canada Age: 31	Jesus, I am only part way through fuuko's arc in the game, won't catch up now :P. Anyways this episode was depressing start to finish and Spoiler for Final scene: What's with the Nagisa/Tomoya meeting at the bottom of the hill again, Something tells me we are going to have a Kanon-ish style finish 9/10. Not bad, but the end left me too confused for a 10 :P.

2009-03-06, 09:59	Link #43
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	Well the ending of the episode being considered as a cliffhanger probably depends more on your familiarity with the plot and characters than anything else, which is a blessing to gamers and maybe a more an "Oh nose!" to none gamers. Gamers already know what can happen next, none gamers will be left wondering just how imoprtant it is. But I won't say anymore. Beyond here is speculative anyway. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-03-06, 11:24	Link #47
jenthehen Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Age: 39	Just in case people haven't seen the episode yet: Spoiler: Am I the only one who doesn't think she is going to die? I am holding on strong here! He asked Nagisa to save her, and I hope there is a Kanon-ish ending where she DOES!!! Oh, I haven't played the game, so I'm just shooting in the dark here. I just ... can't imagine them ending the show with Ushio dead - that's just ... pointlessly depressing. The theme of the show is family support and love creating miracles, right? So let's go with that!

2009-03-06, 11:26	Link #48
velvet "with you, happiness" Join Date: Jan 2007	Borderline sadistic. Seeing this animated hurts. I can't count how many times I look the other way. I can't stand watching a child like that. The ending part with Nagisa, felt a lot like fresh water in the middle of the desert, Rejuvenation. Now I'm sure I can live through this week. Replaying those sadistic scenes in my head for the next 7days. __________________

2009-03-06, 10:57	Link #44
Yukinokesshou ドジ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In a house	Speaking of the cliffhanger, only one of two possibilities can lead to a next episode. I hope this isn't a spoiler... I don't think anyone who hasn't played the game could make sense of this =p Whoever said this episode evokes different emotions from eps 16 and 18 is spot-on (sorry I forgot your name... you posted on page 1). I didn't feel any strong emotions here, just calm. Key's stories make absolutely no sense at all, but they somehow fit together in a completely random way and Kyoani does a good job adapting them. Incidentally, do you think there is a Shinto or Buddhist basis behind Key's plots or is it just the imagination of one sadistic man? At the very least, Air seemed to have religious overtones (reincarnation, "kami", etc.)... maybe it's the same for Clannad? 8/10 (yes, that's a very high rating from me; I've only given 10/10 once, for episode 18)

2009-03-06, 11:12	Link #45
TakezoSama Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	I can't really criticize Tomoya taking Ushio on a trip. When Ushio insisted on going on a trip with her father, maybe he understood that her time was almost up; Her stubborness might have remembered him of her mother ;] (I wanna have a child!) Also, when My grandma was dying at the hospital, she did wish to get back to her house; We, however, kept her at the hospital because "it was common sense that hospitals are better for sick people" - and so she was kept there... Dying two days later, alone, around midnight at the hospital. She could've used her parents around her and her own bed to pass away. I still don't get what'll come at the final ep, but I'd like for some miracle to occur like Kanon.... But since there wasn't any miracle-related talk between the characters, that prolly won't occur If a revolver's on a stage it'll prolly be shot. Even after saying that, cant be sure what'll happen

2009-03-06, 11:20	Link #46
Jimmy C Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	He should have taken her months earlier, when it was still summer. Hint: They did talk about something related to miracles, quite a while ago.

2009-03-06, 11:32	Link #49
Divini Senpai! Join Date: Mar 2007	I don't think this invoked as much raw emotion as previous episodes, but it did have me feeling one very strong emotion throughout nigh the entire episode... ... and that is the sense of utter hopelessness. That was probably the goal of the original VN, I would guess, and if it was, it worked very well here. I had a feeling since the last scene of episode 20 that something bad would happen to Ushio, and the worse possible thing did happen. That last "I love you" by Ushio broke the dam of those feelings that was building in me as I watched the events unfold in a horribly anxious and foreboding mood. I have to say kudos to KyoAni for making me feel like total crap for 20 straight minutes. (this is a compliment in the highest regard of course) Poor Ushio... and poor Tomoya also. The guy just never is allowed a chance to be happy...

2009-03-06, 11:36	Link #50
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	On a second revisit, I am rather glad that Maeda Jun at least had the decency to leave out everyone else that's been by the side of Tomoya from the lights out of Ushio. Would anyone want to see the face of Kyou after being told that Ushio is to stay at home indefinitely? Should one want to see Youhei desparately skipping work and packing part of his meager salaries over his his troubled friend? Shall one peer at Tomoyo reading about how that a new mall is to be built? Might one imagine the look from Fuko when told that Tomoya has stopped working? One dread seeing Kotomi being given the crushing blow that Ushio has perished... and worst of all, dare one stare at the face of Akio and Sanae as the dust settles? I feel that Ushio is aware that her time's up as well. It ruins my appetite in how that both the father and child acknowledged the inevitable while maintaining full mental faculty. Arguably, 5 years old is still too early to learn of mortality of others, yet here Ushio is knowing of her own mortality. Tomoya hates the town, perhaps rightly so out of this... __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori

2009-03-06, 12:11	Link #52
Kinny Riddle Gone for Good Join Date: Apr 2004	Good job in building up to the climax. Compared to episode 16, where they jumped straight to Torch after that sad scene with Tomoya declaring he should never have met Nagisa and face such sadness, I think the last couple of scenes leading up to Torch was slightly better. This is because this time the viewer has time to adapt from the sadness of Ushio departing and Tomoya collapsing, and then suddenly perplexed with a similar scene in the Illusionary World, and finally Tomoya once again deciding whether he should talk to Nagisa back in that scene. Still, it would've been better to just have blacked out credits with sad music, or even no music. The building of the hospital affected Nagisa, and now there's a construction of a shopping centre, which affects Ushio. Akio shows why he's the man again by reminding Tomoya that he's Ushio's father, and so should reassure Ushio her father's fine. Yoshino's a cool boss if there ever was one, saying he's just "borrowing" Tomoya's tools, expecting him to return even after he decides to resign to take care of Ushio. I wouldn't call Tomoya's decision to take Ushio out in such a blizzard as cruel, as he and even Ushio herself reckoned her time is up, and so Tomoya felt he should at least grant her her final wish of going on a trip. And finally, notice Ushio's "final" snow trek in the Real World parallels the Girl's "final" snow trek in the Illusionary World. That alone is a huge hint, if you still don't get it, then just be patient and wait for another seven days.

2009-03-06, 12:17	Link #53
Ascaloth I don't give a damn, dude Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In Despair Age: 37	Episode 21 article is up: [RIUVA] CLANNAD ~After Story~, Episode 21 By far, one of the hardest RIUVA articles I have ever had to write. There's no grief anymore, just hopelessness. 9/10, for the sole remaining mystery in the "full circle" of the last minutes of this episode.

2009-03-06, 13:44	Link #54
Nerroth NePoi! Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Ontario, Canada Age: 43	I felt bad going into this morning, after a heart-wrenching sport result last night... ...but this just makes me feel even worse. Sigh. __________________

2009-03-06, 14:28	Link #55
alu546 y prime Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: The South Age: 36	Spoiler: Is KyoAni alleric to happy or something? Though that kind of death affects me, because its the same as how Id like to live fighting and striving for my goals even if i do meet my end on the way. It takes alot more strength to do that than the majority of people realize. And for those questioning the theme of the show, while it is true its about family bonds and whatnot, it is also about how sadness and happiness comes in waves, and how those bonds are used during those times. (Points to speech by Nagisa at the bottom of the hill as a reference)

2009-03-06, 14:30	Link #56
PNGO #1 in ♦YouR♦ ♥HuRt♥ ♂ Join Date: Aug 2006	omg Spoiler for episode: Tomoya Killed his daughter! I know she was sick but he took her to a trip and ended her life sooner then it should have. I mean just look at that poor thing struggling to walk and with a really cold weather. I mean has a parent sometimes you just have to say a big NO to your kids! You are sick! so stay on bed!, but Nooooo he had to take her to the trip...

2009-03-06, 15:42	Link #59
Ruhisu Tomoyo/Kotomi/Fuko fan Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Poland Age: 37	I could stand this episode watching how my sweet little Ushio-chan is dying KEY!! I won't forgive you this!!

2009-03-06, 16:08	Link #60
Ryuou 進む道は武士道のみ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dying to get back to Japan (but currently near Chicago) Age: 36	Someone mentioned earlier about how Ushio is just repeating the tragedy that befell Nagisa (in an almost karmic/destined sense) and that got me thinking about that one forest. Couldn't Tomoya take Ushio to that forest that Akio took Nagisa to when she was about to die? Or has building that hospital destroyed its magical powers? If their demise is paralleled then the methods to save them should be as well. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking. I also had something else to say but I unfortunately forgot it. Maybe it'll come back to me in a little while. I should've written it down when I thought about it last night.