Patriotic -Are You?

[haunterex]

HoboGod:
i hope you are just being sarcastic...

Hitler was a great miltary leader, but he was a racist with one nut. I admired the way he handled nazi germany on the battleground, because he turned the weak germany into a power giant that almost gain control of europe.
But his crime for slaughtering people because of thier RACE and religion is just wrong.
And to correct you with some useful information, Jews were pretty wealthy, and for that reason, Hitler used that to influenced his brain washed white trash followers to believe Jews were stealing their money and were evil just because of they are jews.
It's just like christians reasoning to people that jesus exists because he simply does, it's a retarded way of thinking.

What Hitler did to the jews and the racism he caused on non-aryans were ridiculous actions.

[Jinto]

@Hobogod,

I'ld like to know whether you read books like the diary of Anne Frank. If that is not the case, I'ld like to recommend it to you. The diary of Anne Frank is a diary of jewish girl.

[HoboGod]

Originally Posted by Bracken33

Take a look around in our current world. How many dictators do you know which voluntarily gave some of their powers back?

how many dictators in this current world do you know that have enough power and support to be a superpower? for as long as history has existed, there have existed countries ruled by one person. there have been cruel kings and their have been great kings. hitler might not have become the great king, but it is overly pessimistic to say there would never be one.

Originally Posted by Bracken33

I don´t know where you get your infos from. Just do a little google search that will help you a lot.

In the Weimar Republik many Jews were mercantilists, artists or scientists.
Just one quote from a website I found (I translated it, I hope I made no mistake):

"In the Weimar Republik 5 of 15 german Nobel Price winners were Jews: Albert Einstein (physics), Otto Meyerhof (medicin), James Frank (physics), Gustav Hertz (physics), Otto H. Warburg (medicin)."

i didn't say all jews were poor lower-class. jews are people too and jews did have successful persons. but there was racism in germany (and almost everywhere else) other than hitler. lower- and middle-class jews were dicriminated against and would rarely move up in class, thusly certain steriotypes can be assosiated with jews. it doesn't matter how many jews are rich, the people would still look at them in a certain light.

Originally Posted by Bracken33

No that was not a good reason to go to war imho.
He basically had everything what he wanted in 1938. Versailles was effectively null and void in 1938.
If he stopped before Poland our history would at least be half bearable.
But Hitler and the Nazis had to fullfill all their delusional ideas...

germany did not have everything they wanted. they did not have their land back. and the only way they'd get that land back is through invading places like poland and austria that once belonged to germany.

Originally Posted by Bracken33

I don´t know how your dreams look like but I would call Hitlers dreams nightmares.

i'm just a sucker for alexander the great. any person that tries to take over the world is a hero is my eyes.

Originally Posted by Bracken33

I feel great reluctance to compare such abominable crimes and figure out which were worse.
I can assure to you that germans did so evil things to Jews and other people that hardly anything more abominable can exist in human history.
Have you ever heard of Dr. Josef Mengele HoboGod?

yep, i've heard of him. i believe he was nicknamed the angel of death. he was a sick bastard. ^_^ but i'd rather be in his hands than face what horrors the russians could think up for germans.

Originally Posted by Bracken33

Also an aditional question: Do you consider yourself a racist HoboGod?

hmmmm, interesting question. if you are asking if i hate jews, then the answer is yes. if you are asking if i hate jews more than a specific race, then most definately no. I hate all races and creeds equally and see the ugliness in all of them. I sometimes chuckle when I hear the word genocide. but that is more of a person issue. ^_^

Originally Posted by haunterex

HoboGod:
i hope you are just being sarcastic...

Hitler was a great miltary leader, but he was a racist with one nut. I admired the way he handled nazi germany on the battleground, because he turned the weak germany into a power giant that almost gain control of europe.
But his crime for slaughtering people because of thier RACE and religion is just wrong.
And to correct you with some useful information, Jews were pretty wealthy, and for that reason, Hitler used that to influenced his brain washed white trash followers to believe Jews were stealing their money and were evil just because of they are jews.
It's just like christians reasoning to people that jesus exists because he simply does, it's a retarded way of thinking.

What Hitler did to the jews and the racism he caused on non-aryans were ridiculous actions.

everyone has their personal beliefs, the nazis just killed more people. and would people stop saying hitler when they mean nazis or saying hitler when they mean wwii germany. putting all the blame on this one man because people listened to post-war propaganda is truely sickening.

Originally Posted by Jinto Lin

I'ld like to know whether you read books like the diary of Anne Frank. If that is not the case, I'ld like to recommend it to you. The diary of Anne Frank is a diary of jewish girl.

read it, hated it, boring as hell. almost as boring as mein kampf. i'd much rather read the gory non-fiction reports of world war 2.

[Serendipity]

I didn't mind the Diary of Anne Frank, it was very sad, but I love studying history...
I think I actually cried a bit at the ending... how she suddenly just stopped writing....

And by my comments earlier, I wasn't saying that Hitler was doing right entirely, I agree with having to weigh the good and the bad, but yeah... I mean, at least he helped with economic problems, and other stuff...
But I am by no means saying that genocide is the right thing to do, I can't understand why anyone would want to do that..

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard that Hitler himself had Jewish ancestry??

[Sid_Burn]

ahhh... how I love that flag... makes me want to conquer the world myself and form a new great world... a world of war... death... and torment... j/k...

[Marduk]

Some peeps here have a disturbingly f***ed up attitude towards one of the greatest criminals in history.

How anyone could even think of standing up for a genocidal dictator like Hitler, who in the end didn't even have the resolve to take responsibility for his actions, is beyond me.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Sexy-no-Jutsu

I didn't mind the Diary of Anne Frank, it was very sad, but I love studying history...
I think I actually cried a bit at the ending... how she suddenly just stopped writing....

And by my comments earlier, I wasn't saying that Hitler was doing right entirely, I agree with having to weigh the good and the bad, but yeah... I mean, at least he helped with economic problems, and other stuff...
But I am by no means saying that genocide is the right thing to do, I can't understand why anyone would want to do that..

Correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard that Hitler himself had Jewish ancestry??

Yes his mother was of jewish ancestry. The strange thing about the racial laws (Nürnberg laws) is, that theoretically Hitler himself was one of the candidates for KZ (concentration camp) by means of ancestry.

[7thMethuselah]

I must say I've read some weird stuff in this thread, both historically correct and historically wrong.

About Hitler : someone mentioned he was a great militaristic leader. No, he was not a great military leader at all, however he was a good statesman and have a keen eye to collect the right people around him. The idea's and wishes of Hitler were accomplished by these great minds.
Hitler was an opportunist actually, in his rise to power he switched camps more often then politicians do these days. Backstabbing, betraying former allies, switching sides, somehow he managed to pull these tricks off and rise in power. once he got to the point where his speeches were heard by many people, he won alot in popularity among German citizens. His speeching and propaganda skills were elite. He could convert people into following him just by talking to them.

Once he was democratically elected in parlament, he and his followers staged the attack on the reichstag (sp?), blamed it on the communists and used this to take absolute power.

Was Hitler a Jew hater all his life? No, in fact he had alot of jewish friends when he was still unknown and powerless. He picked up his anti-jew conviction somewhere along the way (I'd have to look up when and how, but I believe it was during the time he was in Austria).

About the Jew hate, you must see this in the correct historical context. At the time the jews were generally the richest people in Germany. After WWI poverty was everywhere while many jews lived in some form of wealth. So it was easy for Hitler to target this group and gain popularity. If (by example) the Muslims would've been the richest, he would have used them. As I said Hitler was an opportunist and an excellent propaganda man. He knew how to attract people to his cause and would use whatever means necesarry.

Also take into effect that in those days Nationalism was not only strong in Germany but in most countries all over the world, and jews were hated in more palces then just germany, in fact in other countries there was just as much racial hate and discrimination as in germany (before WWII). You can't say that the black were equal citizens in the US at that time for example. However in other countries discrimination remained more or less peacefull.

In Germany somewhere along the road it got out of control. First he isolated them, took their possessions and then started blaming everyhting on the Jews. He lost it and it went completely overboard leading to the Holocaust.

There is alot more I could say but I'll leave at this for now.

In short : the situation beofer WWII wasn't all that uncommon in the '20 and '30. However Hitler and his little gang lost it and went on to do one of the worst things ever. I believe the second WW was unavoidable, due to the Treaty of Versailles. It would have happened sooner or later with or without Hitler. So we can't blame germany for that. The Holocaust however is completely the fault of the Nazi's..

[Tsu]

Really, the more I read of HoboGod's comments, the more I'm beginning to wonder whether he actually beleives what he's saying or just trying out how far he can take this... I can imagine someone finding it entertaining to see how people react to someone saying things that are generally perceived as being shocking.
Hmph. Napoleon was far cooler than Hitler, anyway.

[Bracken33]

hitler might not have become the great king, but it is overly pessimistic to say there would never be one.

I prefer to stay pessmistic relating to Hitler.
Let´s leave it at that. In the end both is speculation.

i didn't say all jews were poor lower-class. jews...

Imho in your previous posting you were actually asserting this.
But your new statement is more balanced. I can live with the new one.

germany did not have everything they wanted. they did not have their land back. and the only way they'd get that land back is through invading places like poland and austria that once belonged to germany.

This way of thinking would of course condemn Europe to make eternal war.
On this continent there is always a piece a land that once belonged to somebody else.
Germany is very small today. Do you think we should prepare ourselves and start WWIII?

Such thinking is very backwards and dangerous esspecially with the technology we posess today.

yep, i've heard of him. i believe he was nicknamed the angel of death. he was a sick bastard. ^_^ but i'd rather be in his hands than face what horrors the russians could think up for germans.

Some of your thoughts are really alien to me.

I sometimes chuckle when I hear the word genocide. but that is more of a person issue. ^_^

Yeah, you have very serious issues and are a poor soul.

I stop the discussion with you here. Imho it´s pointless to discuss with a person of such limited humanity.

[Dhomochevsky]

Those are just typical Hobo-posts... thats the reason Im not arguing in this thread.
Basicly it`s Hobo+Sid_Burn against everyone else. I cant take Hobo serious here, after all thats the style he always does it.
And Sid is like a bad Hobo-fake somehow... still a lot to learn .


Usually I enjoy reading Hobos posts a lot, but this time he went overboard a bit...

[HoboGod]

Originally Posted by Tsu

Really, the more I read of HoboGod's comments, the more I'm beginning to wonder whether he actually beleives what he's saying or just trying out how far he can take this... I can imagine someone finding it entertaining to see how people react to someone saying things that are generally perceived as being shocking.
Hmph. Napoleon was far cooler than Hitler, anyway.

oh, just because i'm taking the side of the loser makes me a troll? O_o

hitler was unfairly labeled as evil after WWII when most of the things the nazis did wrong were caused by other members of the nazi party. for example, it was Heinrich Himmler who wanted to create death camps.

hitler started that war for the good of germany. many people refuse to believe that.

Edit:

Basicly it`s Hobo+Sid_Burn against everyone else. I cant take Hobo serious here, after all thats the style he always does it.

sorry, i'm not the type of person that gives my opinion if it is a widely popular one, but my opinions are always my own. ^_^

Edit 2:

Originally Posted by Bracken33

This way of thinking would of course condemn Europe to make eternal war.
On this continent there is always a piece a land that once belonged to somebody else.
Germany is very small today. Do you think we should prepare ourselves and start WWIII?

Such thinking is very backwards and dangerous esspecially with the technology we posess today.

war was always the most interesting thing to read about for me. like an epic drama with the hearts of thousands pushing toward a romantic goal. the stories of Alexander the Great inspired me like no other

do i wish for perpetual war? no. i mearly want one war that ends with the world under one ruling country. no more boundries, one country, one earth. the roman empire was a wonderous thing, why can it not be like that again?

[Sid_Burn]

Originally Posted by Dhomochevsky

Those are just typical Hobo-posts... thats the reason Im not arguing in this thread.
Basicly it`s Hobo+Sid_Burn against everyone else. I cant take Hobo serious here, after all thats the style he always does it.
And Sid is like a bad Hobo-fake somehow... still a lot to learn .


Usually I enjoy reading Hobos posts a lot, but this time he went overboard a bit...

WTH are you talking about?... I am just here to show how patriotic am I to Hitler... HoboGod started the hot discussion... that's why it's not HoboGod + Sid_Burn vs. Everyone... Im Neutral...

[Tsu]

Originally Posted by HoboGod

oh, just because i'm taking the side of the loser makes me a troll? O_o

Not really, you just make a lot of mistakes that someone who'd take it seriously wouldn't. For example, you should've at least known that there is no such thing as the 'Jewish race'.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Tsu

Not really, you just make a lot of mistakes that someone who'd take it seriously wouldn't. For example, you should've at least known that there is no such thing as the 'Jewish race'.

I'ld like to intensify your comment. In some cases it is better to be quiet, instead of figthing for whatevers side (just for fun) with stupid/made up arguments, just to see how the reactions are. That shows no respect to the (tragedy the holocaust was) victims of the holocaust.

[Killerattacks]

After reading the first few posts and the last few posts, I somehow wasn't really surprised that a discussion about patriotism did end in a discussion about hitler merged with some flaming... I wonder why...

Back to the topic:
As a german I'm not too patriotic or nationalistic, I think most germans feel like this too, since we all know where our patriotism took us (WWII).
Some time ago on the other hand, I was really proud to be european. It seemed so smart and idealistic for me to create a union of states in the same area, where all countries gain advantages and can compete with the USA and Japan as one unity (of couse Im talking about the economic. It's not like there are any wars between thos countries...).
But recently I realized that this is daydreaming. The european parliament doesnt have much power compared to the other and not elected european government bodies which are merely controlled by a industrial lobby. For example just take the directive conerning patents and copyrighted material which passed recently. All made for big companies and against small ones and the citizens. And the EU has numerous other weak points but oh well...
So in the end, Im neither really patriotistic or proud or stuff like this to be german or european. I'm just happy that Im one of the lucky guys who was born in a first world country. It's not like someone is better because he lives in country A and not in country B.
So in the end it's like this: Too much patriotism/nationalism and it will end like it did before, but to few of it and the country will go to the dogs because no one cares if it does. So there should be something like a good mean.

/* crappy english skills are powered by german education system and own laziness */

[HoboGod]

@Killerattacks:
yea, that is the problem with being TOO devoted, groups like the nazis or christian inquisition leaders or people like joseph stallin come along and make patriotism or religion a horrible crime against humanity. that is why i choose to be a supreme being (also called non-conformist, but i hate having to conform to such a title when i'm so obviously better than everyone else. )

[Shadowlord]

I may be patriotic to a point, but some things are hard to be patriotic about.

Especially when Canada is pretty much America's b*tch. Our government tries to do everything they can to "retain favour in the american government". Large scale layoffs and privatization to american companies for instance.

Also, in the last couple of years, depression and violence has escalated. More and more people are committing suicide and beating each other up. At my school, one girl continually picked on a student and adventually she killed herself from it.

Our justice system is horrible. You get more time in jail for steeling than murder. (well not really, but when someone kills an elderly woman on the street and is in jail for 6 months, then realeased, thats B.S)

Our homeless problem fianally started to recover, then C**k su*ker Gordon Campbel
comes along and ruines B.C's job market, forcing more and more people to become homeless.

All these protestors camping out in our parks protesting their displeasure with our government would be good, except for the fact that they are all americans, and only camp on sunny days.

Police not having enough power to enforce the law, drunk driving on the rise, and then the govn't cutting funds to crack down on those same drivers.

ducation cuts like you wouldn't believe, schools getting shut down just to pay for technology that sits around, rotting. (like those submarines we bought, that are still sitting, rotting, havent been used.

Health care cuts everywhere (the hospital near me only accepts emergency patients until midnight, then they have to be flown to another hospital.), less doctors and nurses because their salaries are being cut, which is causing them to move out of country, mostly to the U.S. all the while the govn't paying janitors in those hospital $20.00 an hour to clean floors.

I could go on and on, but that would be even more boring to whoever decides to read this.

I shou
ld also note, I don't hate americans, i hate america.

[ZhanDVG]

Haha, American, and I'm definitely not patriotic. Really, I can't see going to go fight for my country unless it was actually.. y'know... at risk or something. (Lets see, how many wars does that make for so far... The Revolutionary, the, um... y'know, that other one...) If there isn't the threat of us having to learn a new language so we can understand our new dictator, or so we can understand the commands of the kind chap whipping me and barking orders and I haul stone blocks around all day, I ain't gonna do a damn thing. (and even then I'd be a little iffy on the subject). What really kinda got me are all those bandwagon patriots. With their bumper stickers.. ugh.. (y'know, the "these colors don't run" stickers, which, in a fantastic twist of irony, were of such poor quality [made in the US, if that means anything to anybody] the colours ran within months of slapping it on the car... leaving them with a bright yellow tag of shame ;P )


Oh, and while.. kinda on the subject, my thoughts on Hitler can be summed up in one little picture...

[haunterex]

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

I may be patriotic to a point, but some things are hard to be patriotic about.

Especially when Canada is pretty much America's b*tch. Our government tries to do everything they can to "retain favour in the american government". Large scale layoffs and privatization to american companies for instance.

Also, in the last couple of years, depression and violence has escalated. More and more people are committing suicide and beating each other up. At my school, one girl continually picked on a student and adventually she killed herself from it.

Our justice system is horrible. You get more time in jail for steeling than murder. (well not really, but when someone kills an elderly woman on the street and is in jail for 6 months, then realeased, thats B.S)

Our homeless problem fianally started to recover, then C**k su*ker Gordon Campbel
comes along and ruines B.C's job market, forcing more and more people to become homeless.

All these protestors camping out in our parks protesting their displeasure with our government would be good, except for the fact that they are all americans, and only camp on sunny days.

Police not having enough power to enforce the law, drunk driving on the rise, and then the govn't cutting funds to crack down on those same drivers.

ducation cuts like you wouldn't believe, schools getting shut down just to pay for technology that sits around, rotting. (like those submarines we bought, that are still sitting, rotting, havent been used.

Health care cuts everywhere (the hospital near me only accepts emergency patients until midnight, then they have to be flown to another hospital.), less doctors and nurses because their salaries are being cut, which is causing them to move out of country, mostly to the U.S. all the while the govn't paying janitors in those hospital $20.00 an hour to clean floors.

I could go on and on, but that would be even more boring to whoever decides to read this.

I shou
ld also note, I don't hate americans, i hate america.

i am from Vancouver BC as well~
dont forget about the drug house, where druggies and hobos can go in the house and get their free dose of cocaine or the drugs they need; free food, shower, beds are also provided.
And dont forget where some of these free drug houses are built, right next to china town to attract more scums of the society to the already sh!thole china town, and a drug house right across from a elementary school in residental area in Richmond, B.C.

that's right, anyone that wants free, hard illegal drugs can just go to these drug houses and get their free hit, some food after a quick nap in the rooms they provided, the houses even have daycare center so parents can comfortably leave their children to play while they do the drugs.

This is the canada i live in, with a government that wants to legalize pot, feed and encourage the scums of society to stay the way they are instead of helping them reform to something better.
THis is another example of democracy goes wrong.