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foxy12 · 2009-11-01, 14:56

First of all ,Aren't you guys being a bit too harsh on Mokoto ,Yes ,he's a scum and the worst character ever to be made but what a bout the girls ?

Here's what some member said at animelist and I fully agree with him..

The girls knew what Makoto was, and I go as far to say the they were just as gross for being with bad news since many of the girls at that point didn't even like him in the first place. They ALL knew the chances and took it which make them just as much the blame. He would not come off as the asshole jerk you ditz love to hate if the girls wouldn't have exacerbate it by LEAVING HIM ALONE!! Not to say it's alright to cheat. And I won't say blame the girl if you do cheat. What I'm saying is the girls knew what he was like and didn't avoid him. Makoto would not stop because the girls did not stop. If the girls were any smarter than him and saw he was bad news: THEY GETOUT OF BAD NEWS. And if Makoto chickened out and escaped the situation, why can't he? As if he ever had a REAL relationship with ANY of the girls in the series AT ALL in the first place. These girls weren't raped, coerced, or otherwise made to have sex with him. They just willingly have sex with him ignoring the consequences of their actions. Which make them just as much the blame for the events leading up to the end as him. Which you people put so much effort into making it out like he is ALL to blame for what happened. If Makoto deserved to DIE for his actions, in which the girls were no more guiltless in, all the girls deserved to DIE for their actions as well. If he should DIE for that, then not only Sekai deserved to die for what she did, but Kotonoha and the other girls as well. These girls were way worst than him ,they tempted him with thier sexuality ,they wanted this more than him ,they desired for sex ..he was just being a guy -selfish ,assholish person agree but those girls started this whole thing weather it was out of love or not ,they started this ..

............

Noticed that sekai was the one who invited him to her house and had sex with him (not in his house ,her house ) Otome showed him that room and pushed him into bed (she pushed him ,he didn't push her )sestuna went over to his house and offered herself to him ,Hikari went over to his house and had sex with him three times ,those other girls did it as well -In other words ..those girls were bad and they weren't better than him and yet they don't get any blame ..why?it's not just his fault ,any guy would've done so in his place ..I'm not saying his good ,just saying that that it wasn't just his fault ..Those girls were complete bitches..I mean yes ,I do feel sorry for characters who make so much mistakes and act like bitches and get so much hate because of their acts of betrayal and cheating (mitsuki from KGNE though she had sex with the guy and betrayed her friend, she felt guilty for her actions and did it because she love him , and in this case ,Sekai is the one I pity the most cuz she showed some guilt even though she's done bad things out of love but those other school days characters don't deserve sympathy at all ..for what ? for having under-aged sex ,and why should I give sympathy ?

willyvereb · 2009-11-01, 18:38

But the problem is that any decent people with some spine can say no. But he didn't. And it wasn't his greatest sin. His dense nature was. He acted like a play-boy without the requeired skill to manage this.
And about Setsuna...yeah she offered herself, but for what? questionably for Sekai's happyness and for a promise from Makoto to stay at Sekai's side. And he didn't give shit about it just wanted a turn with her( as with any girl).
"catch them all!"
Ash Ketsum attitude converted for a harem-lead.

incube · 2009-11-01, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fervor

How does sleeping around and being insensitive make a guy deserve to die? There are probably millions of guys in the world right now who are guilty of doing just that.

He's a high school boy. He had girls throwing themselves at him. I'll bet that most high school boys would do exactly what he did.

Just because there are millions of slaves around the world, it doesnt mean it is right...

And Makoto didnt just sleep with some girls and be insensitive.... He dates a girl and just because she doesnt want to have sex with him so soon, he goes and fucks the first girl that seemed available to him. He doesnt even bother to tell his girlfriend because it would be troublesome for him. Then he goes and fucks his childhood friend, his lovers best friend and 4 of his classmates. And what does he do when he finds out Sekai is pregnant? The first thing he thinks about is abortion in order to escape all responsability.... And when all his "girlfriends" starts to avoid him, he has the nerve to ask why are they doing that.... and to top that he finds the girl that he dumped at the begining and inmediatly dumps Sekai... And when Sekai asks for an answer he goes and starts kissing with Katsura right in front of her....

So getting stabbed to death by the girl he betrayed and his head chopped off the other girl he betrayed seems pretty fair to me

@foxy12: The reason the other girls decided to have sex with Makoto was because he was supposed to be a brainless good looking guy that would fuck anything that asks him to.

But the reason why most ppl think Makoto deserved to die wasnt because of them but the fact that he is a scum that makes girls have sex with him with the pretense of love and dumps them whenever he feels like it. The kind of trash that can simply ignore his pregnant girlfriend and continue living his playboy life. And even take advantage of the same girl that he dumped and ended up traumatized, wandering around talking to herself.

BetoJR · 2009-11-02, 04:27

The only girl Makoto had sex with while under the pretense of love was Sekai. All the others either put themselves up for it or simply wanted a taste of the experience.

As for your take on male behavior and what's fair, good Lord, I wouldn't like to be judged by you.

willyvereb · 2009-11-02, 04:44

You're somewhat right...most of the girls left him out of the fear of being eventually pregnant by him and because they tealised he uses them instead of them using him.

But 3 other girls had sex with him out of love:Otome, Setsuna and probably Kotonoha.
Even if two of them knew they would be only secondary at maximum and he isn't loving them.

But it's still beyond compreheson for me why people are saying Sekai is guilty and evil and manipulative and else, while they beleive Otome, Setsuna and Kotonoha is innocent...especially the later.

BetoJR · 2009-11-02, 05:06

Otome is arguable, but I'll give you that. Kotonoha is implied, sure, but never explicited. Now, Setsuna? If you mean love for Sekai, then I agree.

foxy12 · 2009-11-07, 07:48

@incube -This exactly the reason why I hate Mokoto ,not because he had sex ,everyone had sex .I hated him because he refused to take responsibility for his actions ,I hated him because he continued to act selfish till the very end even after he apologized to Katanoha for what he had done ,I hated him because he refused to apologize to Sekai and blamed her for everything that happened to him .As for not accepting his own child ,that's a normal reaction for a teenage guy .Sekai's pregnancy is also her fault just as much as his ,They should've seen it coming before making this huge mistake ,ofcource Mokoto wouldn't accept his own child while still wanting to have fun with more girls -how could they raise a child at this very young age? ,him asking for abortion is not wrong when you think about it ,him going back to Katanoha while still being with Sekai was a huge mistake because he had more time with sekai ,If I was in his place and I had to pick ,I would definitely pick Sekai and stay by her side ,they had so much sex ,His relationship with Katanoha didn't reach that heavy stage .Going back to Katanoha made things worst .Katanoha should've moved on and found herself someone else ,she brought some of it on herself just as everyone else. Everyone messed up way too much..

If we're searching for answers as to how this could've been better ,We will find lots's of answers but the problem is that everyone messed up way too much to even fix anything(made so many mistakes ) to the point that nothing right can come out of it .This show was written to tell us that there's no fixing anything ..

@willyvereb- Mokoto is a guy who was tempted by girls ,Trust me many guys wouldn't be able to resist it .Yes ,your right he should've had the balls to refuse and turn them down but he's dense nature won him over I guess .But I couid say the same thing a bout those girls ,they knew he was bad ,they knew he wanted sex ,they knew he had a gf but they didn't care at all ,they just wanted to see how it feels like and that makes them NO BETTER than him .Why did they let him take Advantage of them ?It seems more like they were taking advantage of him ,they were using him as someone they couid have sex with whenever they liked .A good girl is a girl who knows how to handle herself when it comes to dealing with guys like Mokoto ,the kind of girl that knows how to say NO but these girls wanted this.The problem with the characters here is that they wanted sex much more than they wanted love ,That's not LOVE .Love is not just a bout having sex .These characters didn't go too far because they wanted love ,they went too far because they wanted sex or they had a dim view of love (very shallow characters indeed ) Sekai should've known that having sex with someone wouldn't necessarily make him fall in love with her ,she should've told Mokoto the truth without doing the whole 'practice ' it was sad watching her building a path towards her own self-destruction .IMO ,Otomi's feelings weren't as deep as Sekai's ,She wasn't fighting conflicts with her feelings or anything like Sekai ,she just wanted to see how it feels like to have sex with Mokoto ,if she truly loved him ,she should've just let him go ,Sestuna wasn't doing it only because of Sekai ,she was also doing it to ease her unrequited love for Mokoto (her feelings were a bit deeper than Otome I would say ) How's kissing your best friend's boyfriend 3 times going to help ? What kind of plan is this? ..Are you trying to tell me that both Sestuna and Otomi were madly in love with Mokoto like Sekai ? were their feelings as deep as Sekai's ?
.................................................. ..........

This is just my opinion and I hope I won't get flamed or anything

..sorry if it's long though ..

willyvereb · 2009-11-07, 16:25

Setsuna was like Sekai. She couldn't stop her feelings. Setsuna was in love with Makoto, but seeing Sekai's strong feelings she gave up and supported her. But when she was about to part she had that feeling of loss and regret. She started to mind her foolishness to give up on him and also worried constantly over Sekai's situation. She was in an emotional dowhill. And about the sex-offer. She was somewhot bold to think Makoto is responsible enough to keep his word to her.(epecially after being so confusingly half-assed about it) But actually I bet Setsuna was largely controlled by her emotions. She wanted to make makoto promise that to calm down her own heart...and in turn she can have a memory with him. So that's about Setsuna's case.
In Otome's case she had a crush on him, but came in terms with the "consolidation price"(cheating with Makoto). About the other girls you're somehow right. He became the new hot topic and the girls used him at least as much as he them.

But makoto wasn't innocent in it at all either, perhaps. Now take a quick look inside his mind's workings...
A young High Schooler who's as dense as most of the harem leads. He had zero emphathy skills, nor knownledge about relationships of course. Also as a dense guy, he was slow. I don't know he was nice because he wanted to or because he hoped it may attract girls, but if the later he(unknown to him) nailed it!
He failed to realise the difference between sex, love and relationships the whole time. As I said he had zero relationship or emphathy skills. He deducted that the girls are wanting the same thing as him: sex.
He was a simple guy. For him, facing difficulties or complexities equaled frustration. He was frustrated about the slowness and high-maintance nature of his relationship with Kotonoha and also he can't figure out Sekai at all. When he got together with her he can't understand her worries or anything. For him it all was just like a frustrating emotional rollercoaster. That's why when he found out the "beuties of harem" he wanted to forget those complex things as girlfriend forever. He hated Sekai, that's the truth. He didn't have the slightest intention of visiting Sekai because he was so selfish. His real nature came out. And it became obvious to the other girls when he simply rejected Sekai when she got pregnant. The girls uniformically decided to ditch such a jerk(and also out of the realisation they might also get pregnant accidentally by him).
Makoto perhaps couldn't understand a thing. And then he met with the broken Kotonoha. His state was grave, so even somone as dense as makoto can understand it. Because he wasn't heartless he wanted to help her and realised how how deep he hurt her. He decided to be with her to make up for his sins(perhaps also that way he can get cookie at last

). He grew a bit of spine and decided to "solve things". He did what he can't before: properly broke up with Sekai. Or so he thought. Perhaps as dense as he is he though Sekai will get over all this soon. In his eyes Sekai was an emotionally unstable girl who gets happy and sad without much reason. And that was his belief until his last minute of life. Sekai stabbed him an said out everything that hurted her. And that's where he realised that how deeply hurt Sekai. And his last words were about apologising to her(and being relieved that his death is a redemption enough for his deeds in the end).
Huh...that was much longer than I first wanted. In short Makoto is dense,selfish and simple-minded, but isn't heartless or evil(though certainly weak-willed). Boys like him exist in wide variety on the Earth. But they aren't quarter as lucky with girls as him. They need to correct either of their 3 faults first usually to be in a relationship usually and hence tragedies like that are extremely rare to occour.
For Makoto's development Sekai and Kotonoha is at fault too. Kotonoha single-mindedly clinged to him. She lived in a mental box and so because no one other than Makoto was inside her box as a boyfriend she can't let him go(so it wasn't her love...she selfishly wanted makoto and that's all). If she manage to leave him, much of the public confusions won't happen and Sekai and makoto live a somewhat happy life even if he remains as much of an idiot as he was.
Sekai was at fault too. Her deep love for makoto(for which I still can't find much reason, but I leave it be for now) was quite a problem. She loved Makoto which couldn't allow her to leave him. If she had only a crush and regulary stole makoto then when he cheated on her or even when he was so indecisive she could've left him and thus avoiding the tragedy. Also it can make Makoto realise a few things about relationships. Or she could've been a bit harsher with him and forcing him strongly to break up with Kotonoha as fast as possible. Also if she was a bit more brave or less emphatic she could've told Kotonoha the truth and ask her to properly break up with Makoto ASAP and leave them alone. In short she could've been more forceful. Later when makoto neglected her she still couldn't leave him, because she was serious about their relationship and believed that with some mending they can continue. She was willing to forgive him, not simply because she needed him, like Kotonoha, but because she really loved him. So when she found out he felt nothing about their relationship or even may he loved Kotonoha all long(her realisation actually was a bit wrong though...makoto didn't really loved anyone) it broke down the last pillar of hers. She was haunted by guilt for all her deeds, she was betrayed multipe times, She lost her best friend and in the end she realised

That's why I think Sekai's case is the really tragic. Her faults where her somehow selflessness and love for makoto(and her lack of much courage, but it really is not something a girl usually have...or I can be wrong). She regreted her actions, felt guilty for it and almost always tried to make up for them.She's still can't and no matter how she tried the situation really went of control. She lost all of the emotional culoumns supporting her one by one and at last her emotions went haywire and "forced" to kill the one she loved so deeply.
It's rather tragic compared to the often mentioned Kotonoha. She was selfish and hardly minded her actions. She hurted people out of wantdom and revenge...

Huh...That was really long, and I have a feeling my post is in the wrong topic now.

I don't even remember how I've started my post.

But in short, Makoto deserved some REALLY HARD slaps into his face. He didn't deserved to die, because death hardly solves problems like theese. But he brought it on himself for sure. He was an idiot to not realise meaningful things and only cared about himself.
School Days anime was the anime which awakened my character-analysation impulses(especially the mystery which was makoto's strange personality).
Thanks to the analysation of other characters, reading of forums and some RL experience I think I've managed to reveal his character really good at last.

@Foxy12: You should answer my visitor messages.

foxy12 · 2009-11-09, 14:22

I have nothing else to say a bout this ,I agree with your analysis but I don't agree with you on koto ,You see ,Katanoha is the most innocent person in this whole show and the real victim ,she had every right to take revenge from those who hurted her and she endurd the same a mount of pain that sekai had to endure ,she was being a bused throughout the whole show ,her case was also very tragic ,they both suffered very much but Sekai suffered more when it came to love and being betrayed by everyone just like you said ...

Sekai is very tragic ,if only she didn't do the whole practice ,that kiss was more than enough to relieve herself ,sestuna was conflicted and I do pity her a bit ..

Otomi was no different from those other girls ...

I understand that these girls loved Mokoto but why did they choose to go as far as having sex with him ?,they all had series problems ,some of these girls weren't even desperate or anything ..

This anime shows how far are stupid /hormonal teens willing to go when giving a free /unlimited sexual life ..This is my problem with this anime ..everyone was like 'we're in love ,lets go have sex ' the characters in school days went too far because they were bad in themselves ..

another qoute -

I wouldn't exactly call this anime realistic and I don't think it has any intension of being realistic. Essentially, the students that attend the school where the anime is set all exhibit various unhealthy psychological/pathological tendencies (misogyny, carnal desire, self denial, etc.) and are forced to deal with the consequences of them. The message seems to me that the egotistical and promiscuous lifestyles of these students are self destructive and eventually, responsibility has to be taken for the consequences of such a lifestyle; in Makoto and Saionji's case, Saionji's pregnancy (whether it was real or imagined is irrelevant). By turning his back on the world (Saionji's name means "the world") and refusing to accept responsibility for what he had done, Makoto was destroyed by his negative choices. Going even further than that, Saionji (the world) is killed in the end and Kotonoha proclaims that "there is no one inside you," perhaps suggesting the world portrayed in the anime (a world devoid of ethics) is an empty world.

so in other worlds ,this anime deals with those self-destructive ,promicuous,sex addicts ,many ppl have been in love but they havn't gone as far as the ones in school days ..the characters in school days had corrubted feelings and morals .this anime deals with the likes of school days ,

willyvereb · 2009-11-09, 19:23

You take symbolism a bit too seriously there...Afterall we're talking about an adaptation.

And Kotonoha is innocent? How the hell? She liked to hurt those people who hurt her and took no effort to understand others.
evenge? How can it be justified at all? No revenge is justified by my opinion. They're always selfish and aiming to cause harm to others. It doesn't matter why somone is doing it, it is always bad. It's another thing if it's understandable or forgivable to do so.
Every people have to act selfish at times and be forced mentaly to resort methods like that to "relieve" herself. But it also means those people aren't innocent at all.
Kotonoha was full of herself and was mean to Otome in the anime before we actually see any kind of serious abuse done on her by the gang. Actually she was the one who provoked it there. Also she said some cruel words later to Setsuna and Sekai. And when Makoto took her back she openly bragged about her renewed relationship with him and tried hard to prove how insignificant was Sekai's relationship with Makoto. And perhaps later she snapped and murdered cold-heartedly Sekai.
She enjoyed all those.

She wasn't innocent at all. She had a tendency to be ruthless and cruel as my examples proves it. How can she be innocent? She may look like that at first glance, but after some pressure and happenings her inner personality came to the light.

Justified revenge...Oh man, the number one Casus Belli of history is actually a foolish thing like that!

Dr. Casey · 2009-11-10, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Kotonoha was full of herself and was mean to Otome in the anime before we actually see any kind of serious abuse done on her by the gang.

Really? The only time I remember her being anything less than kind to Otome was at the end of episode six, and she wasn't trying to be malicious there so much as marking her territory. I don't remember her ever being cruel to Setsuna, either, though Setsuna was mean to Kotonoha more than once (Or twice, for that matter).

willyvereb · 2009-11-11, 05:30

Well, it might be seem as I'm saying she's evil. No, Kotonoha isn't evil or anything, because there aren't anyone evil in School Days. They're making big mistakes and being selfish mainly. The one closest to evil is Otome who openly bullies Kotonoha out of her jealusy.

It's just that in School Days there aren't any innocent people either.
-Setsuna seemingly helped Sekai out of goodwil, but in the end it was her selfishness to calm down her worries of her. In she couldn't stop her feelings for Makoto and betrayed her, but she calmed her heart down by thinking it's for Sekai.
-Hikari is somewhat like Setsuna though because of her friendship with Sekai is weaker and her circumstances are also far from extreme, she was more of uncaring. She's worried of Sekai, but her voice was weak and strange to hear after betraying her.

But now back to Kotonoha. She rearely showed any kind of personality(meaning: she's largely passive), but when she showed those were negative ones. So she isn't a saint at all. She hardly minded any of her actions or when she hurt others while Sekai always did and always wanted to make up for it. Perhaps Sekai isn't a saint either. She's forceful and can be rather selfish at times. She also couldn't help herself and in the end somehow "unintentionally"(she didn't wanted to, though when she did so she didn't hated it either) charmed him. While she was caring and good-natured, she had that omnious selfish desire to get Makoto. But still I can't blame her as much. Afterall she was the only person who took efforts to make everyone come out as nicely as possible...but perhaps she eventually lost to her desire to be with Makoto.

And Makoto...the dumbest devil ever alive. Somehow he managed to make Sekai fall in love with him so much while he's that dumb...I don't know how he managed it. The other things are possible, but that one thing isn't and without that I bet he won't get close to any girl until he graduates(well, might be Otome). Sekai's help and his relationship with her was the thing made him that popular later.

foxy12 · 2009-11-11, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Hikari is somewhat like Setsuna though because of her friendship with Sekai is weaker and her circumstances are also far from extreme, she was more of uncaring. She's worried of Sekai, but her voice was weak and strange to hear after betraying her..

I agree with most of your points ^ ^

Hikari was WAY worst than Sekai ,Sestuna and Otomi ,she wasn't having sex with Mokoto out of love or anything , you can't compare her to Setsuna ,Otomi was better than her because she at least had a crush on Mokoto ,why did Hikari have to go and have sex with him out of the blue if she was worried for Sekai? I undertand why Otomi ,Sekai and setsuna did it but why Hikari ? she had nothing for Mokoto .Can you explain this to me ?

having sex for Sekai's sake is just too stupid in my opinion ,they were all backstabbers.What kind of friends are those ?

Katanoha might not have been as innocent as she seemed (your right ) but she was better than all of them ,being a virgin(untill she was raped ) is enough reason for me to respect her character even though I prefer sekai so much more .The only one who didn't have sex with Mokoto ..I havn't played the game so I don't know the exact info's..

willyvereb · 2009-11-11, 13:49

Being virgin? It's how innocence and respectable? In modern world it means nothing...especially because she wanted everything according to her scenario at her own pace. But well, she wasn't horny like 90% of the cast.(actually anyone other than the two heroines

)

And I respect Sekai for being thoughful of others despite her deeds and her struggle to solve the situation. She and Setsuna was the only ones who actually were selfless somewhere in the story(Though contrary to the belief Setsuna only was at the beginning...later she wasn't as I explained).

Maiku-kun · 2009-12-08, 02:08

im just gonna answer the question without going to in-depth, yes makoto is absolute fuck-face and I hate him being that i am a guy who is very respectful of women, i often found myself screaming at my computer screen when he cheated on kotonoha/sekai, regardless makoto does not deserve death, what he does deserve though is to find the women he truly loves and wants to be with forever...and then have her cheat on him, that would be a better ending in my opinion, the brutal slaughterfest that was teh last episode just disturbed me, makoto may be a bastard but being a douchebag doesnt warrant a death sentence

-Sho- · 2009-12-08, 13:25

Maybe he's a jerk etc ..... but he doesn't deserves to die , sorry but killing a people isn't a good resolution . Just Justice does !
And why do you absolutely have to love someone to go out with him/her ?
Sorry but you can going out with someone even if you don't feel love for him/her .
The emotions will grow later if the couples are happy .

Isekaijin · 2009-12-08, 13:32

To put it simply, yes.

His death at least allowed me to rest peacefully that night.

Envy · 2009-12-19, 13:15

Makoto was a huge jerk, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die.

He just deserved to be lonely.

Really the ending of the anime was just over the top. Largely exaggerated high school drama.

willyvereb · 2009-12-20, 07:09

But actually after what he did it wasn't really out of the context. Murder because of cheating isn't that uncommon as it seems.

ZephyrLeanne · 2009-12-21, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Envy

Makoto was a huge jerk, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die.

He just deserved to be lonely.

Really the ending of the anime was just over the top. Largely exaggerated high school drama.

That's what you think.

In Asian, especially Japanese societies, the idea of first kiss and first time being laid does have a very special meaning to girls in Japan, so that must be treasured for the one true love. And they expect their guy to be the same.

So that's why the girls were so mad (especially Sekai and Kotonoha). And I truly thought that Makoto deserved to die.

Besides, given their family names, we're supposed to link them to the previous PMs of Japan. And if that's so, I think that was the best ending as it would mean less of those political families continuing to keep Japan in a endless depression and having endless pork-barrel projects (golf course in a village, anyone) and start some REAL USEFUL projects like building a STRAIGHT-LINE SHINKANSEN instead of having it go detour to some place simply because there's a important political family there.

2009-11-07, 07:48	Link #327
foxy12 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	@incube -This exactly the reason why I hate Mokoto ,not because he had sex ,everyone had sex .I hated him because he refused to take responsibility for his actions ,I hated him because he continued to act selfish till the very end even after he apologized to Katanoha for what he had done ,I hated him because he refused to apologize to Sekai and blamed her for everything that happened to him .As for not accepting his own child ,that's a normal reaction for a teenage guy .Sekai's pregnancy is also her fault just as much as his ,They should've seen it coming before making this huge mistake ,ofcource Mokoto wouldn't accept his own child while still wanting to have fun with more girls -how could they raise a child at this very young age? ,him asking for abortion is not wrong when you think about it ,him going back to Katanoha while still being with Sekai was a huge mistake because he had more time with sekai ,If I was in his place and I had to pick ,I would definitely pick Sekai and stay by her side ,they had so much sex ,His relationship with Katanoha didn't reach that heavy stage .Going back to Katanoha made things worst .Katanoha should've moved on and found herself someone else ,she brought some of it on herself just as everyone else. Everyone messed up way too much.. If we're searching for answers as to how this could've been better ,We will find lots's of answers but the problem is that everyone messed up way too much to even fix anything(made so many mistakes ) to the point that nothing right can come out of it .This show was written to tell us that there's no fixing anything .. @willyvereb- Mokoto is a guy who was tempted by girls ,Trust me many guys wouldn't be able to resist it .Yes ,your right he should've had the balls to refuse and turn them down but he's dense nature won him over I guess .But I couid say the same thing a bout those girls ,they knew he was bad ,they knew he wanted sex ,they knew he had a gf but they didn't care at all ,they just wanted to see how it feels like and that makes them NO BETTER than him .Why did they let him take Advantage of them ?It seems more like they were taking advantage of him ,they were using him as someone they couid have sex with whenever they liked .A good girl is a girl who knows how to handle herself when it comes to dealing with guys like Mokoto ,the kind of girl that knows how to say NO but these girls wanted this.The problem with the characters here is that they wanted sex much more than they wanted love ,That's not LOVE .Love is not just a bout having sex .These characters didn't go too far because they wanted love ,they went too far because they wanted sex or they had a dim view of love (very shallow characters indeed ) Sekai should've known that having sex with someone wouldn't necessarily make him fall in love with her ,she should've told Mokoto the truth without doing the whole 'practice ' it was sad watching her building a path towards her own self-destruction .IMO ,Otomi's feelings weren't as deep as Sekai's ,She wasn't fighting conflicts with her feelings or anything like Sekai ,she just wanted to see how it feels like to have sex with Mokoto ,if she truly loved him ,she should've just let him go ,Sestuna wasn't doing it only because of Sekai ,she was also doing it to ease her unrequited love for Mokoto (her feelings were a bit deeper than Otome I would say ) How's kissing your best friend's boyfriend 3 times going to help ? What kind of plan is this? ..Are you trying to tell me that both Sestuna and Otomi were madly in love with Mokoto like Sekai ? were their feelings as deep as Sekai's ? .................................................. .......... This is just my opinion and I hope I won't get flamed or anything ..sorry if it's long though .. Last edited by foxy12; 2009-11-07 at 08:01.

2009-11-11, 13:49	Link #334
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Being virgin? It's how innocence and respectable? In modern world it means nothing...especially because she wanted everything according to her scenario at her own pace. But well, she wasn't horny like 90% of the cast.(actually anyone other than the two heroines) And I respect Sekai for being thoughful of others despite her deeds and her struggle to solve the situation. She and Setsuna was the only ones who actually were selfless somewhere in the story(Though contrary to the belief Setsuna only was at the beginning...later she wasn't as I explained).

2009-12-19, 13:15	Link #338
Envy Band Nerd ♥ Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tornado Alley Age: 35	Makoto was a huge jerk, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die. He just deserved to be lonely. Really the ending of the anime was just over the top. Largely exaggerated high school drama. __________________ *“The only thing that will stop you from fulfilling your dreams is you.”*

2009-11-01, 14:56	Link #321
foxy12 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	First of all ,Aren't you guys being a bit too harsh on Mokoto ,Yes ,he's a scum and the worst character ever to be made but what a bout the girls ? Here's what some member said at animelist and I fully agree with him.. The girls knew what Makoto was, and I go as far to say the they were just as gross for being with bad news since many of the girls at that point didn't even like him in the first place. They ALL knew the chances and took it which make them just as much the blame. He would not come off as the asshole jerk you ditz love to hate if the girls wouldn't have exacerbate it by LEAVING HIM ALONE!! Not to say it's alright to cheat. And I won't say blame the girl if you do cheat. What I'm saying is the girls knew what he was like and didn't avoid him. Makoto would not stop because the girls did not stop. If the girls were any smarter than him and saw he was bad news: THEY GETOUT OF BAD NEWS. And if Makoto chickened out and escaped the situation, why can't he? As if he ever had a REAL relationship with ANY of the girls in the series AT ALL in the first place. These girls weren't raped, coerced, or otherwise made to have sex with him. They just willingly have sex with him ignoring the consequences of their actions. Which make them just as much the blame for the events leading up to the end as him. Which you people put so much effort into making it out like he is ALL to blame for what happened. If Makoto deserved to DIE for his actions, in which the girls were no more guiltless in, all the girls deserved to DIE for their actions as well. If he should DIE for that, then not only Sekai deserved to die for what she did, but Kotonoha and the other girls as well. These girls were way worst than him ,they tempted him with thier sexuality ,they wanted this more than him ,they desired for sex ..he was just being a guy -selfish ,assholish person agree but those girls started this whole thing weather it was out of love or not ,they started this .. ............ Noticed that sekai was the one who invited him to her house and had sex with him (not in his house ,her house ) Otome showed him that room and pushed him into bed (she pushed him ,he didn't push her )sestuna went over to his house and offered herself to him ,Hikari went over to his house and had sex with him three times ,those other girls did it as well -In other words ..those girls were bad and they weren't better than him and yet they don't get any blame ..why?it's not just his fault ,any guy would've done so in his place ..I'm not saying his good ,just saying that that it wasn't just his fault ..Those girls were complete bitches..I mean yes ,I do feel sorry for characters who make so much mistakes and act like bitches and get so much hate because of their acts of betrayal and cheating (mitsuki from KGNE though she had sex with the guy and betrayed her friend, she felt guilty for her actions and did it because she love him , and in this case ,Sekai is the one I pity the most cuz she showed some guilt even though she's done bad things out of love but those other school days characters don't deserve sympathy at all ..for what ? for having under-aged sex ,and why should I give sympathy ?

2009-11-01, 18:38	Link #322
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	But the problem is that any decent people with some spine can say no. But he didn't. And it wasn't his greatest sin. His dense nature was. He acted like a play-boy without the requeired skill to manage this. And about Setsuna...yeah she offered herself, but for what? questionably for Sekai's happyness and for a promise from Makoto to stay at Sekai's side. And he didn't give shit about it just wanted a turn with her( as with any girl). "catch them all!" Ash Ketsum attitude converted for a harem-lead.

2009-11-02, 04:44	Link #325
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	You're somewhat right...most of the girls left him out of the fear of being eventually pregnant by him and because they tealised he uses them instead of them using him. But 3 other girls had sex with him out of love:Otome, Setsuna and probably Kotonoha. Even if two of them knew they would be only secondary at maximum and he isn't loving them. But it's still beyond compreheson for me why people are saying Sekai is guilty and evil and manipulative and else, while they beleive Otome, Setsuna and Kotonoha is innocent...especially the later.

2009-11-07, 16:25	Link #328
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Setsuna was like Sekai. She couldn't stop her feelings. Setsuna was in love with Makoto, but seeing Sekai's strong feelings she gave up and supported her. But when she was about to part she had that feeling of loss and regret. She started to mind her foolishness to give up on him and also worried constantly over Sekai's situation. She was in an emotional dowhill. And about the sex-offer. She was somewhot bold to think Makoto is responsible enough to keep his word to her.(epecially after being so confusingly half-assed about it) But actually I bet Setsuna was largely controlled by her emotions. She wanted to make makoto promise that to calm down her own heart...and in turn she can have a memory with him. So that's about Setsuna's case. In Otome's case she had a crush on him, but came in terms with the "consolidation price"(cheating with Makoto). About the other girls you're somehow right. He became the new hot topic and the girls used him at least as much as he them. But makoto wasn't innocent in it at all either, perhaps. Now take a quick look inside his mind's workings... A young High Schooler who's as dense as most of the harem leads. He had zero emphathy skills, nor knownledge about relationships of course. Also as a dense guy, he was slow. I don't know he was nice because he wanted to or because he hoped it may attract girls, but if the later he(unknown to him) nailed it! He failed to realise the difference between sex, love and relationships the whole time. As I said he had zero relationship or emphathy skills. He deducted that the girls are wanting the same thing as him: sex. He was a simple guy. For him, facing difficulties or complexities equaled frustration. He was frustrated about the slowness and high-maintance nature of his relationship with Kotonoha and also he can't figure out Sekai at all. When he got together with her he can't understand her worries or anything. For him it all was just like a frustrating emotional rollercoaster. That's why when he found out the "beuties of harem" he wanted to forget those complex things as girlfriend forever. He hated Sekai, that's the truth. He didn't have the slightest intention of visiting Sekai because he was so selfish. His real nature came out. And it became obvious to the other girls when he simply rejected Sekai when she got pregnant. The girls uniformically decided to ditch such a jerk(and also out of the realisation they might also get pregnant accidentally by him). Makoto perhaps couldn't understand a thing. And then he met with the broken Kotonoha. His state was grave, so even somone as dense as makoto can understand it. Because he wasn't heartless he wanted to help her and realised how how deep he hurt her. He decided to be with her to make up for his sins(perhaps also that way he can get cookie at last ). He grew a bit of spine and decided to "solve things". He did what he can't before: properly broke up with Sekai. Or so he thought. Perhaps as dense as he is he though Sekai will get over all this soon. In his eyes Sekai was an emotionally unstable girl who gets happy and sad without much reason. And that was his belief until his last minute of life. Sekai stabbed him an said out everything that hurted her. And that's where he realised that how deeply hurt Sekai. And his last words were about apologising to her(and being relieved that his death is a redemption enough for his deeds in the end). Huh...that was much longer than I first wanted. In short Makoto is dense,selfish and simple-minded, but isn't heartless or evil(though certainly weak-willed). Boys like him exist in wide variety on the Earth. But they aren't quarter as lucky with girls as him. They need to correct either of their 3 faults first usually to be in a relationship usually and hence tragedies like that are extremely rare to occour. For Makoto's development Sekai and Kotonoha is at fault too. Kotonoha single-mindedly clinged to him. She lived in a mental box and so because no one other than Makoto was inside her box as a boyfriend she can't let him go(so it wasn't her love...she selfishly wanted makoto and that's all). If she manage to leave him, much of the public confusions won't happen and Sekai and makoto live a somewhat happy life even if he remains as much of an idiot as he was. Sekai was at fault too. Her deep love for makoto(for which I still can't find much reason, but I leave it be for now) was quite a problem. She loved Makoto which couldn't allow her to leave him. If she had only a crush and regulary stole makoto then when he cheated on her or even when he was so indecisive she could've left him and thus avoiding the tragedy. Also it can make Makoto realise a few things about relationships. Or she could've been a bit harsher with him and forcing him strongly to break up with Kotonoha as fast as possible. Also if she was a bit more brave or less emphatic she could've told Kotonoha the truth and ask her to properly break up with Makoto ASAP and leave them alone. In short she could've been more forceful. Later when makoto neglected her she still couldn't leave him, because she was serious about their relationship and believed that with some mending they can continue. She was willing to forgive him, not simply because she needed him, like Kotonoha, but because she really loved him. So when she found out he felt nothing about their relationship or even may he loved Kotonoha all long(her realisation actually was a bit wrong though...makoto didn't really loved anyone) it broke down the last pillar of hers. She was haunted by guilt for all her deeds, she was betrayed multipe times, She lost her best friend and in the end she realised That's why I think Sekai's case is the really tragic. Her faults where her somehow selflessness and love for makoto(and her lack of much courage, but it really is not something a girl usually have...or I can be wrong). She regreted her actions, felt guilty for it and almost always tried to make up for them.She's still can't and no matter how she tried the situation really went of control. She lost all of the emotional culoumns supporting her one by one and at last her emotions went haywire and "forced" to kill the one she loved so deeply. It's rather tragic compared to the often mentioned Kotonoha. She was selfish and hardly minded her actions. She hurted people out of wantdom and revenge... Huh...That was really long, and I have a feeling my post is in the wrong topic now. I don't even remember how I've started my post. But in short, Makoto deserved some REALLY HARD slaps into his face. He didn't deserved to die, because death hardly solves problems like theese. But he brought it on himself for sure. He was an idiot to not realise meaningful things and only cared about himself. School Days anime was the anime which awakened my character-analysation impulses(especially the mystery which was makoto's strange personality). Thanks to the analysation of other characters, reading of forums and some RL experience I think I've managed to reveal his character really good at last. @Foxy12: You should answer my visitor messages.

2009-11-09, 14:22	Link #329
foxy12 Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	I have nothing else to say a bout this ,I agree with your analysis but I don't agree with you on koto ,You see ,Katanoha is the most innocent person in this whole show and the real victim ,she had every right to take revenge from those who hurted her and she endurd the same a mount of pain that sekai had to endure ,she was being a bused throughout the whole show ,her case was also very tragic ,they both suffered very much but Sekai suffered more when it came to love and being betrayed by everyone just like you said ... Sekai is very tragic ,if only she didn't do the whole practice ,that kiss was more than enough to relieve herself ,sestuna was conflicted and I do pity her a bit .. Otomi was no different from those other girls ... I understand that these girls loved Mokoto but why did they choose to go as far as having sex with him ?,they all had series problems ,some of these girls weren't even desperate or anything .. This anime shows how far are stupid /hormonal teens willing to go when giving a free /unlimited sexual life ..This is my problem with this anime ..everyone was like 'we're in love ,lets go have sex ' the characters in school days went too far because they were bad in themselves .. another qoute - I wouldn't exactly call this anime realistic and I don't think it has any intension of being realistic. Essentially, the students that attend the school where the anime is set all exhibit various unhealthy psychological/pathological tendencies (misogyny, carnal desire, self denial, etc.) and are forced to deal with the consequences of them. The message seems to me that the egotistical and promiscuous lifestyles of these students are self destructive and eventually, responsibility has to be taken for the consequences of such a lifestyle; in Makoto and Saionji's case, Saionji's pregnancy (whether it was real or imagined is irrelevant). By turning his back on the world (Saionji's name means "the world") and refusing to accept responsibility for what he had done, Makoto was destroyed by his negative choices. Going even further than that, Saionji (the world) is killed in the end and Kotonoha proclaims that "there is no one inside you," perhaps suggesting the world portrayed in the anime (a world devoid of ethics) is an empty world. so in other worlds ,this anime deals with those self-destructive ,promicuous,sex addicts ,many ppl have been in love but they havn't gone as far as the ones in school days ..the characters in school days had corrubted feelings and morals .this anime deals with the likes of school days ,

2009-11-09, 19:23	Link #330
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	You take symbolism a bit too seriously there...Afterall we're talking about an adaptation. And Kotonoha is innocent? How the hell? She liked to hurt those people who hurt her and took no effort to understand others. evenge? How can it be justified at all? No revenge is justified by my opinion. They're always selfish and aiming to cause harm to others. It doesn't matter why somone is doing it, it is always bad. It's another thing if it's understandable or forgivable to do so. Every people have to act selfish at times and be forced mentaly to resort methods like that to "relieve" herself. But it also means those people aren't innocent at all. Kotonoha was full of herself and was mean to Otome in the anime before we actually see any kind of serious abuse done on her by the gang. Actually she was the one who provoked it there. Also she said some cruel words later to Setsuna and Sekai. And when Makoto took her back she openly bragged about her renewed relationship with him and tried hard to prove how insignificant was Sekai's relationship with Makoto. And perhaps later she snapped and murdered cold-heartedly Sekai. She enjoyed all those. She wasn't innocent at all. She had a tendency to be ruthless and cruel as my examples proves it. How can she be innocent? She may look like that at first glance, but after some pressure and happenings her inner personality came to the light. Justified revenge...Oh man, the number one Casus Belli of history is actually a foolish thing like that!

2009-11-11, 05:30	Link #332
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Well, it might be seem as I'm saying she's evil. No, Kotonoha isn't evil or anything, because there aren't anyone evil in School Days. They're making big mistakes and being selfish mainly. The one closest to evil is Otome who openly bullies Kotonoha out of her jealusy. It's just that in School Days there aren't any innocent people either. -Setsuna seemingly helped Sekai out of goodwil, but in the end it was her selfishness to calm down her worries of her. In she couldn't stop her feelings for Makoto and betrayed her, but she calmed her heart down by thinking it's for Sekai. -Hikari is somewhat like Setsuna though because of her friendship with Sekai is weaker and her circumstances are also far from extreme, she was more of uncaring. She's worried of Sekai, but her voice was weak and strange to hear after betraying her. But now back to Kotonoha. She rearely showed any kind of personality(meaning: she's largely passive), but when she showed those were negative ones. So she isn't a saint at all. She hardly minded any of her actions or when she hurt others while Sekai always did and always wanted to make up for it. Perhaps Sekai isn't a saint either. She's forceful and can be rather selfish at times. She also couldn't help herself and in the end somehow "unintentionally"(she didn't wanted to, though when she did so she didn't hated it either) charmed him. While she was caring and good-natured, she had that omnious selfish desire to get Makoto. But still I can't blame her as much. Afterall she was the only person who took efforts to make everyone come out as nicely as possible...but perhaps she eventually lost to her desire to be with Makoto. And Makoto...the dumbest devil ever alive. Somehow he managed to make Sekai fall in love with him so much while he's that dumb...I don't know how he managed it. The other things are possible, but that one thing isn't and without that I bet he won't get close to any girl until he graduates(well, might be Otome). Sekai's help and his relationship with her was the thing made him that popular later.

2009-12-08, 02:08	Link #335
Maiku-kun The Rider Join Date: Dec 2009	im just gonna answer the question without going to in-depth, yes makoto is absolute fuck-face and I hate him being that i am a guy who is very respectful of women, i often found myself screaming at my computer screen when he cheated on kotonoha/sekai, regardless makoto does not deserve death, what he does deserve though is to find the women he truly loves and wants to be with forever...and then have her cheat on him, that would be a better ending in my opinion, the brutal slaughterfest that was teh last episode just disturbed me, makoto may be a bastard but being a douchebag doesnt warrant a death sentence

2009-12-08, 13:25	Link #336
-Sho- ~Omedetô~ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !	Maybe he's a jerk etc ..... but he doesn't deserves to die , sorry but killing a people isn't a good resolution . Just Justice does ! And why do you absolutely have to love someone to go out with him/her ? Sorry but you can going out with someone even if you don't feel love for him/her . The emotions will grow later if the couples are happy .

2009-12-08, 13:32	Link #337
Isekaijin Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008	To put it simply, yes. His death at least allowed me to rest peacefully that night.

2009-12-20, 07:09	Link #339
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	But actually after what he did it wasn't really out of the context. Murder because of cheating isn't that uncommon as it seems.