Explain to me why we need this ...

[Lexander]

1. There is ALREADY a god damn law that bans gay marriage from happening.

2. They're putting a "Proposal 2" on Michigan ballot, that would wipe out gay and lesbian couple benefits.

3. Half of the money, put towards this proposal was from the CATHOLIC CHURCH. GO FIGURE. (and they claim that it should be the "people" and not "politics" to make "choices." Yeah, whatever that means you rightous bastards.)

http://www.protectmarriageyes.com/

....So explain this to me.

If we already....please note "already"...have a law that bans gays and lesbians from getting married, how can one NOT look at proposal 2 and not see is at just flat out discrimination with a religious back bone.
It seems like a sneaky 'just in case' step to take yet another stabb at gay marriages if they ever manage to get legalized.

/rant over, waits for discussion.

[phoenixfire92983]

I don't live in Michigan, but from the website that you posted it sounds to me that the current law is not specific enough to completely rule out gay marriages. Which is why they are trying to push this "proposal 2" so strongly. Do you have a website that talks about your #2 and 3 issues. I didn't see anything on that one website that addresses that. All I saw over and over again was that 'Michigan wants marriage to be a union of man and women only' and lots of wedding pictures. LOL, talk about some major propaganda on that site. I love how they assume that "ALL" people in Michigan want this and that. I don't really care one way or another about gay marriages, but if what you say is true about the benefits, then yeah I might consider this possible discrimination. Post some more sites though, so people can read more about this issue. Right now, we can only see one view on the subject.

[raikage]

He said that half the money came from the church, not going to it.

Apparently Michigan does not already have a law stating that gays cannot marry - unless I missed something.

[Real]

Big time Propoganda site, but then, when it comes to politics, what isn't propoganda??(<----sickened beyond words).

This act is definately an act of discrimination, since the gov wouldn't care at all about gay marriage if financial incentives wern't involved. Michigan, in a simialr way to most states, might not have a direct law banning gay marriages(not sure as I don't live there), but will not recognize them as being legal and binding.

While I don't feel especialy strong about this issue, I am very much against discrimination of any kind. This seems to be a case of a state trying to safe-guard itself against gay marriage, regardless of what federal laws eventually come to pass. The Church's involvement in this matter sickens me even more...

[Lexander]

That's the thing Raikage ... in fact it DOES have a law that already bans same sex marriages. All proposal 2 does is add a line in the state constitution that says just this ... http://www.micatholicconference.org/...-Proposal2.pdf


Here are some independant links ...
http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/topst...xml&storylist=
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=6792
http://www.freep.com/news/politics/g...e_20041007.htm

[MidoriShinobi]

It's ridiculous. I mean, gays should at LEAST be able to have the same couple rights, if not "official marriage"

[JOJOS'STAR]

Damn..I didn't know the U.S. were still at this point Wheere I'm from Gays and lesbians can get married when ever they want. Well I think so.

Anyway, Lexander you wanna get married?

[hobobaggins]

Originally Posted by MidoriShinobi

It's ridiculous. I mean, gays should at LEAST be able to have the same couple rights, if not "official marriage"

= = keep in mind the US has had slavery longer than it has been "free"

but having unequal rights for certain people who did nothing wrong (felons, they are the ones who cant vote) is unconstitutional, and i hope the judicial branch throws it out, after identifying it as such.

that is dehumanizing gays, something that goes against all ideals of america.

[Ending]

Gays and lesbians should have a right to REGISTER their relationship to gain equal stance (sharing of property, widow's rights, etc). About that I can agree, but they NEVER should have a right to normal, church weddings. They are abnormal. Dot.

[boneyjellyfish]

Originally Posted by Lexander

http://www.protectmarriageyes.com/

Funny how they have a white married couple and a black married couple on the front banner, separated, but no interracial married couple. The people running that website are still in the 50s, man!

[hobobaggins]

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Gays and lesbians should have a right to REGISTER their relationship to gain equal stance (sharing of property, widow's rights, etc).

About that I can agree, but they NEVER should have a right to normal, church weddings.

glad we agree.

They are abnormal. Dot.

kinda. sorta agree.

The government should not be able and isnt able to force a religion to change in the face of changing ideals and values. it should never be able to do that. and vice versa.

And on this note: what happened to the seperation of church and state?!

[Bun-kun]

errr...... well here we go again~! oi, what else can I say bout christianity and I haven't said yet. They were against women's right, were for slavery, are against stem cell research, oh interracial marriage, hmm wonder what they'll go after next. But remember kids jesus loves only if you believe he was the son of your imaginary father in the sky, and not gay. He loves unconditionally, but only with teh condition I've stated

[Serendipity]

Personally I don't think that the church has any right to tell people what they can't and can't do. If the gay couple were christian or whatever, sure, you know, stop them if you think it's right, but they have no right to tell non believers that they can't get married.

The church doesn't have the same credibility as it used to, especially in Australia, since the "little boys" incidents that sprouted out around the country. I can't believe that even despite this they are telling everyone it's wrong to be gay!

[Sanjuronord]

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Gays and lesbians should have a right to REGISTER their relationship to gain equal stance (sharing of property, widow's rights, etc). About that I can agree,

Agree, if neccesary I'd be willing to have government make a seperation of the term "marriage" from government. If "marriage" is a religious concept than it should have no part in government. Civil Unions for everybody!!!

Originally Posted by Wirhe

but they NEVER should have a right to normal, church weddings. They are abnormal. Dot.

But they do have that right. If their religious beliefs are such that they feel that it's acceptable: Why should they be banned from performing a church ceremony? That should be up to the church asked to perform the ceremony. That's freedom of religion. No religion owns the copyright to the term marriage, so if they belong to a church body that agrees with marriage they should be able to have a "wedding ceremony" and tell people that their married (in my view a religious pledge).

[Thelastguardian]

Originally Posted by Bun-kun

errr...... well here we go again~! oi, what else can I say bout christianity and I haven't said yet. They were against women's right, were for slavery, are against stem cell research, oh interracial marriage, hmm wonder what they'll go after next. But remember kids jesus loves only if you believe he was the son of your imaginary father in the sky, and not gay. He loves unconditionally, but only with teh condition I've stated

What a flame bait...I won't bite it this time through, I have enough arguement in my life to last me a life time already.

As for marriage. I believe marriage is the union between opposite sex. If the hemosexual couple wants to enjoy the same right as a "normal" copule, fine, whatever. But don't they dare to call it marriage.

Maybe the mod should add a poll to this thread asking for opinion of marriage vs civil union.

[hooliganj]

I support the 'civil union' proposition, but to do it properly, you'd have to go one step farther. Eliminate marriage as a government sponsered event or even as a civil status. Let the churches deal with all the ins and outs and whatnot involved. All the government needs to care about is whether two (or more, I guess) potential income earners are sharing a household, are they supporting any dependants, and who qualifies as next of kin. Right now that's called 'marriage' on the forms, but it could just as easily be 'civil union'.

Either way, those rights need to be extended to every household, otherwise we're all living under an oppressive government, even if we're not the ones being oppressed.

[Spiggy]

Hey...Ohio is doing the same thing at least in Cincinnati. I still need to find time to make sure I know what is all on the ballots. I know that a big thing seems to be the sale of alcohol at some stores/restaurants on Sundays. I find it kind of funny about the marriage ban thing. There was one sign that read "Protect Civil Rights, Vote No on Issue ##. Gay marriages" or something along those lines. Come on...there's nothing wrong with it personally I think that it will help things if it is allowed. I may be stepping my boundary but I feel that it might help adoption rates rise alittle. Some people would like to raise a family and for those who can't do it naturally, there's adoption. If they adopt they will be helping out those already in the world, it won't bring new ones in, so it's a little bit of population control. I know that last part sounds kind of wrong but it seems kind of right.

[Roots]

People who oppose gay marriage this strongly are fucking bastards. They see someone who is different than they are and they can't accept them, so they don't feel that they should have equal rights. Hmm, lets see what is an analogous group of people who were prosecuted against unfairly for being different?

African Americas

Its the exact same situation, no different. MLK Jr must be rolling in his grave right now, because this fucked up country hasn't learned a damn thing since the civil rights movement. :fingers:

[indicatoto101]

Gays and lesbians should have a right to REGISTER their relationship to gain equal stance (sharing of property, widow's rights, etc). About that I can agree, but they NEVER should have a right to normal, church weddings. They are abnormal. Dot.

In my view, every thing in this world has a purpose. Eagles control the snake population, snakes help control the vermin pop, they control the small vegetation and bugs populaton and so on... Heterosexuals are created to procreate (in any way, sexual or asexual that involves birth of a new being to further population), Homosexuals' roles, IMHO, is to control it. Two men who are sexually, emotionally involved will never bear offspring, thus helping to control the populaton (which is way too high ATM).
I've noticed that with the ever increasing population, more homosexuals are created. not because we are moving towards a new era of freedom, but this is mother nature's way to counter-balance our stupidty. SO... in a way every homosexual IS natural/normal because he/she was created to serve a purpose.

My little rant, the longest post on Animesuki thus far, almost ran out of stuff to say

[guest]

Originally Posted by indicatoto101

In my view, every thing in this world has a purpose. Eagles control the snake population, snakes help control the vermin pop, they control the small vegetation and bugs populaton and so on... Heterosexuals are created to procreate (in any way, sexual or asexual that involves birth of a new being to further population), Homosexuals' roles, IMHO, is to control it. Two men who are sexually, emotionally involved will never bear offspring, thus helping to control the populaton (which is way too high ATM).
I've noticed that with the ever increasing population, more homosexuals are created. not because we are moving towards a new era of freedom, but this is mother nature's way to counter-balance our stupidty. SO... in a way every homosexual IS natural/normal because he/she was created to serve a purpose.

My little rant, the longest post on Animesuki thus far, almost ran out of stuff to say

I don’t know if this is mother nature’s way to counter-attack over population problem. But I think that the numbers of homosexuals increasing are due to the fact that now they are more than ever to step out and live the way as they desire, instead of suppressing their true feelings to fit in the society, like it has been for thousands of years, if not from the beginning of the human history.
Since the percentage of homosexuals in general population is proportional to the total number of people in said population, it looks like they are increasing as the general population grows.
That’s what I think.