2010-12-29, 05:28 | Link #761 |
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Huh? Dex is saying that I am taking what he said out of context. That is patently wrong. I am directly referring to Dex saying that Alto was not acting his clearly acted kiss with Ranka in episode ten, comparing Altos reaction to Sheryls ambush kiss to the set-up and acted kiss with Ranka. How am I taking this out of context?
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2010-12-29, 06:37 | Link #762 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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@magnus
I can't actually remember what Yasaburo said wrt Alto, so I'm going to have to wait til we watch it (next week, was it?). As for applying details revealed not in the series proper - I personally tend to put more trust in it if Kawamori indicates in some way that it's part of the set up / background material for the series or a particular character. As for this Spoiler for long quote from magnus:
Not that I really mind, because it makes character analysis interesting. I'd hate to have everything spelled out for me. ==== Also, just was to check before I bring in something else for consideration: was 10 the episode where Alto's past as a Kabuki star is confirmed? I remember seeing images of Sakura-hime at various points, not to mention the various hints like his nickname, but don't recall it being mentioned out loud...
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2010-12-29, 07:04 | Link #763 | |
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2010-12-29, 08:03 | Link #764 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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^
orz...it's only been like 2 and a half months, and I've already forgotten... Ah, but what Luca says when they are backstage is interesting if we think about what Alto was doing in real life before leaving his home. I'll see if it's relevant next week, or even sometime later down the track.
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2010-12-29, 09:40 | Link #765 | |
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Alto's past of Sakurahime was pretty much a repeated point in terms of Alto's character. |
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2010-12-29, 10:41 | Link #766 |
A blast from the past
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"Huh" right back at ya. I was talking about the "I don't think you know what that means..." line, which should have been: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means". And that is all.
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2010-12-29, 11:08 | Link #767 | |
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Oh, allright. I guess I was deep in discussion mode and didn't recognize the pun.
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2010-12-29, 15:20 | Link #770 | ||
Alto x Ranka :)
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It wasn't just about the kiss being acted or not, it's about the issues that Alto had with acting at this point of the series (which should be evident in this episode.) The problem being that you don't even want to accept that the idea of Alto "acting" even outside of a role is plausible. Remember that I was quoting Wisteria and not you. What I thought she was implying was different from what you think it was. It's really just a misunderstanding my good friend Quote:
Quite frankly, isn't that just being hard-headed? Would you even concede to it being plausible, at the very least. I know we all have somewhat different opinions on the matter, but there's no room for discussion if one doesn't at least acknowledge other opinions aside from their own.
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Last edited by DeX-kun; 2010-12-29 at 16:23. Reason: I was wrong! :( |
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2010-12-29, 16:06 | Link #771 | |
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I really don't have the time to watch all the series again, i've watched some episodes and that's why i haven't write here, but it's more fun to read the comments of everyone for each episode, it makes me remember what I thought of the episodes the first time I watched them.
I knew that by episode 10 it would get better, I only want to comment about this. Quote:
Spoiler for Ranka's reaction:
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2010-12-29, 16:11 | Link #772 | |
Alto x Ranka :)
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Edit: I would give you some rep but apparently I need to spread some more love first
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Last edited by DeX-kun; 2010-12-29 at 16:21. |
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2010-12-29, 19:04 | Link #773 | ||||
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What I did was taking a few sentences of your statement which spoke to a certain sentiment and responding to those specifically. That I didn't answer the rest of your statement or that you were directing them at someone else has nothing to do with "taking them out of context". Quote:
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2010-12-29, 20:00 | Link #774 | |||||
Alto x Ranka :)
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In essence, you took a stance against a point that didn't even exist in the first place (which I even later said was misinterpreted.) The parts you didn't quote contained the actual point. Hence, taking it out of context. Now I hope we can move on from this because I'm not fond of arguing semantics. Quote:
It's a lot harder for someone to accept a truth about themselves. And in that same token, it's just as easy for someone to falsely judge another. I believe this was the point that Kawamori was alluding to in Karice's earlier post. "Absence of proof, is not proof of absence." Quote:
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2010-12-29, 20:27 | Link #775 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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2010-12-29, 20:28 | Link #776 |
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Is it just me, or are the major moments of "Alto might feel the same about me!" that Ranka remembers/reacts to (at least two of them), scripted? Well, I'll talk about that further down the road, but it's worth pointing out that if anyone in the TV series has trouble with conflating reality with show biz, it's Ranka (mainly due to her innocence; it wasn't as if Grace and Leon were about to give her a crash course in show biz reality, and Elmo might have feared Ozma's wrath if he made Ranka too upset. And again, she wasn't around to watch her star fall the way Sheryl was when her CDs ended up in the dollar bins).
Alto, on the other hand, feels more like someone who just STOPPED acting in the beginning of the series. Less because of a hate of acting, but more because he wasn't allowed to develop his individual identity (individuality is, after all, the major theme of the show) when at home and on stage (when other boys were learning that girls don't have cooties, he was busy acting girl characters). This is why he becomes so annoyed when Yasaburo calls his current persona cliché acting; Alto isn't acting, this is who Alto is, or what he's found so far that he is. Which is also why he shows such numbness/uncertainty about how to respond to the girls. HE doesn't know himself yet, HE doesn't even know who he'll end up being a year from now, is it right for someone who doesn't know himself to take such an exclusive spot in someone else's life? (Assuming, of course, that they are monogamous on Frontier.) In fact, if he ends up in that spot and his personal growth goes in a way that might displease his girlfriend, he might end up acting out of habit as she wants her ideal boyfriend to act, which would be bad for both of them. Which might be why he accepted the Star Date so easily. As far as he knew, he had a fun date with Sheryl, no strings attached, and that they would soon be on separate spaceships. Then it snowballed, and he gradually adjusted to that position instead. In a way, all three of the triangle went through a "who am I?" phase. Alto's was perpetuated through the series until he found his calling to protect Frontier and how he thrived on responsibility. Ranka's kept changing through the entire series. Sheryl went into one at the betrayal of Grace and climbing back to the spotlight, reaffirming herself. Anyway, back to the episode at hand. We even have the bridge bunnies wondering why Alto would give up a sterling acting career and become a fighter pilot, with Cathy mentioning that there are lots of reasons why people would do it. On the Sheryl/Alto kiss, it seems like Sheryl was thinking "here goes all or nothing!". Then she chickened out when she could only detect shock in his reaction. I also like the snippet beforehand, when Alto says that he'll be fine with acting out a kiss, but that Ranka would probably not (as in, seeing it as a pro and an act, and we later get it confirmed that she had to force herself into a kiss, and then reads a lot more into it than it really was). There is also a large contrast between the two kisses. Sheryl's could have been refused, backfired and her dismissal of it was flimsy and she was lucky that Alto didn't try to read more into it. Ranka ran no such risks, Alto was contracted to return her kiss, and no one would question it as they were, after all, supposed to kiss according to the script. And on the topic of kisses, did they have to film Ranka kissing the actor portraying Shinn so that they could use some creative cutting to splice him in Alto's place? Or was it simply "stage kissing" when the lips are put close but not needed to touch? Also Leon's Hawaiian shirt is hideously fabulous. You'd think for a megalomaniac he'd hire a better stylist (unless he was going for the Bunny Ears Lawyer effect). |
2010-12-30, 05:23 | Link #777 | |||
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You got no in-series confirmation of that, hell, not even a hint of Alto expressing such a sentiment. All you got is movie Alto saying so and you are trying to apply this wholesale to the other Alto. Quote:
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2010-12-30, 05:49 | Link #778 | |
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And know what? All it does for me is put the way I see Alto, and other characters both in Macross and in any other literary work, into words. As far as I can see, EVERYONE puts on a front to different people - I do it in real life, and I know that the people around me IRL do it too. Is it acting? I don't know, but it certainly isn't being completely honest about oneself. It doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. But just like I can't know precisely what's actually going on any character's head, because I'm not that character, you don't know how I think, so please don't try to label me as doing something I'm not.
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2010-12-30, 06:17 | Link #779 | |||
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- You say: Everybody is putting on a mask in daily life and not always saying what he really thinks ( Which is an assertion that is definitely true, otherwise civil society wouldn't function ). - Yasaburo says: Alto is only acting out a role with his running off from home and being a pilot. He is not genuine in this but only playing a part, so he should come back home and return to acting. These are two completely different things. Do you honestly think Alto would have flipped his lid the way he did, because Yasaburo was telling him "Oh, btw., you are not always being truthful about what you want to say"? Given the the majority of my reply was addressed to Dex. I think you are taking the parts which were thought for him as if directed to you. I put your line into the final quote, because it did pertain to the larger point I was making, which is that nobody during the show or before the movie put this character-view of Alto on the table, it has only surfaced now and is, IMO unjustifiedly, being conflated with series Altos motivations.
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2010-12-30, 06:42 | Link #780 | |||
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As for what Kawamori said: Quote:
3rd point: no comment, as I still haven't watched episode 11 again. I was talking about my general impression of Alto. === Quote:
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