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View Poll Results: The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya - Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 236 | 64.31% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 95 | 25.89% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 25 | 6.81% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 7 | 1.91% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 3 | 0.82% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.27% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 367. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-01-04, 21:35 | Link #563 |
Senior Member
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dunno if anyone said this, but its not clear to me why nagato chose such a roundabout way of doing things. japanese logic is japanese...OR...all mangakas are at the mental level of high school kids. come on, it would have been easier to just ASK kyon what kind of world would he like to live in instead of throwing the poor chap into shock. AND THEN having him play a stupid game to see if he actually wanted to stay in the other world. which btw was with a time limit, which makes no sense cause kyon doesn't have enough time to make a decision. yes in the movie it was conveniently made so that he HAS enough time, but for me that is unbelievable. he would have needed to explore the world a little better to make a decision.
and also i kinda can't comprehend why nagato turned herself into another person. that = killing herself. and you wouldn't do that for someone you barely know. so she loved kyon or smth? enough to sacrifice her memories? but then again, why couldn't she just keep them and pretend she erased them? the movie is good, but the plot holes are bugging me...
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2011-01-04, 21:43 | Link #564 | |
~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Quote:
Or that is how I saw it.
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2011-01-04, 21:57 | Link #565 |
Senior Member
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1) in the end kyon still got dragged around, this time by nagato. lol.
2) its always better to ask a person what he wants. its your type of "mind reading" that prevents ppl from being simple and effective in their interactions. you don't know what kyon would have answered. AND that is not the point... 3) john smith ???? i was talking about kyon...its not like a human interface would fall in love with a petty human just by being near him during club activities and not talking to him. they had like 1 or 2 conversations that can be called remotely normal. 4) what was the point in kyon approving of nagato's human personality? IF she lost all her memories. its a different person. it can be said that it is not nagato anymore.
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2011-01-04, 22:45 | Link #566 | |
~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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Quote:
She still wanted what was best for Kyon in her own opinion, so she simply recreated the world in an image that would probably approve with Kyon.
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2011-01-04, 23:41 | Link #567 | |
Yuki Nagato Worshipper
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hot, Very Hot Singapore
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Quote:
The time limit is probably because, as I observed earlier in this topic, of her observation of Kyon during Endless Eight. That man is one hell of a procrastinator. If there wasn't a time limit he would have just gotten used to the new world... Instead of being forced to decide which one he liked better. I personally think 2 days is just right. Also, as for exploring the world. Notice how the keys were to get the SOS-Dan members into the clubroom. To me, this had a special significance. It gave Kyon a very good comparison of "Before" and "After". Did he like a SOS-Dan made up of normal people, or one with Espers, Time Travelers and Aliens? As for Yuki killing herself... You can think of it that way. But even so, perhaps she is THAT selfless? And I think Yuki knows Kyon well enough. After all, she spent 595 years together with him It also begs the question of where Alt!Yuki got her personality from. If it was the emotions that grew within her, isolated and condensed into Alt!Yuki, then part of Alien Yuki still lives on. There really aren't that many plotholes, you probably just need to watch it again, as it seems your understanding isn't complete. Early on in life when I started writing stories, I realized that questions like, "Why didn't character A do this, instead of that" are pointless. Pretty soon you have to justify every action a character took, instead of writing a good story. Why did you eat what you had for breakfast this morning? You probably just felt like it, instead of thinking hard about it. |
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2011-01-04, 23:55 | Link #568 | |
Senior Member
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Quote:
and i did write a 20 page chapter of my novel (authonomy.com). and before that i constructed the whole universe and thought out the reasons for most of the char's actions SPECIFICALLY so nobody could point a finger and say "ha, there's a plot hole. char's do things against their nature". 2) whats so bad about getting used to the new world? if he does - then...lol, profit, good for him. 3) yeah lol, kyon accidentally stumbled upon the sos dan in the new world. he didn't even do anything. he didn't KNOW what to do. that is another miss on yuki's part. (not enough clues) 4) part of alien yuki...so what? she cant remember anything. point is moot.memories are EVERYTHING. no memories - no person.
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2011-01-05, 00:19 | Link #569 |
Yuki Nagato Worshipper
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Hot, Very Hot Singapore
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I don't have time to address all your points as I'm preparing to go to school now, but I do want to argue one point.
We do not always think through all our actions. If you have learned social psychology there's such a thing called "Cognitive Economy". When confronted with stimulus, depending on how important it is and how much time we have, we leave it to automatic processing. This automatic processing is determined by our personality. For example, if I were queuing up at McDonald's and I just want to have my lunch really quick, I might just go for what I always have, a Double Cheeseburger. I don't think it through, I just say to myself, "Let's have a double cheeseburger". My point? The most logical action available to a person may not be what he chooses. In fact, that course of action might not even be apparent to a person. Lastly, The most logical action doesn't always make the best story. |
2011-01-05, 00:45 | Link #570 | |
Senior Member
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its the authors job to make a logical action interesting in a story. ...and most seem to fail, i've noticed. often for the sake of the plot going forward, the author will make the char's do very stupid things. for me an illogical action does not make a good story. the irony is, most times it tries to come off as logical and serious, while taking its viewers for fools. (its a whole other story if the anime is a parody or just doesn't take itself seriously (gurren lagann)) a good example of logical-dramatical is princess mononoke. its frickin hard to tell who is the bad guy there at first...
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2011-01-05, 01:01 | Link #571 | |
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 44
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Quote:
Only the metaphysical necessity of Kyon doing what we saw him doing, and the probable catastrophic results if he doesn't.
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2011-01-05, 16:06 | Link #574 |
New kid on the block. ;o
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I honestly found this movie to be utterly fantastic. I wasn't sure whether I should watch it or not at first, being as I liked the first season and was incredibly frustrated (as I'm sure many were) by the second season. But I decided that I had nothing better to do and to watch it anyway.
I wasn't disappointed in the slightest. It had the usual great art, thankfully leaning less towards K-ON!'s as S2 seemed to, and the animation we'd all expect from KyoAni by now. That didn't ever worry me. What was a great surprise to me (having not read the light novels nor the manga and only really following the anime) was the fantastic story that the movie had. Creative, not just a moefest, had some great turns and the possibility that it didn't even happen at all. Though we all know it did. Looking forward to more after that and hopefully season 3 (or another movie) will be as good as this and give some hope to the series.
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2011-01-05, 17:05 | Link #575 | |
Beautiful fighter.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 37
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Quote:
-When Nagato is telling Kyon about how they first met in the Library. -After Nagato tells Kyon who the culprit is. -& there's an orchestra version used when Nagato beings to change the world. All versions can be found on the official soundtrack release of the film.
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2011-01-05, 17:57 | Link #576 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
What we don't understand is how... Someone dies (here Kyon is dying) Somehow a future version of him - comes back to prevent the death. That's just illogical. It'd be different if... Some dies... A future version of him (one from a different reality where he didn't originally die) comes back to saves him is plausible. So what is it? Can people basically save themselves after they have died? The only possible logical explanation (which fits with the idea of time travel) is that Kyon dies. Someone travels back in time to inform him that he will die in the future. The person from the past goes to future to prevent himself from being stabbed which will produce a completely new timeline and essentially erasing the old one where he got stabbed. I'm just going to ignore all the discussion about if he wasn't stabbed, then why would they need to go back in time to prevent him being stabbed. The point is that it occured. It existed at one point. |
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2011-01-05, 18:16 | Link #577 | |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
It kind of makes me wonder whether she truly understands human logic... since the first thing one would normally do in a state of shock is to find a way to revert things back to normal. As for erasing herself... if she was herself, that'd mean that she'd attempt to stop Kyon from reverting the world back to normal (given that it's her wish - she wants this world.) but for some reason she trusts Kyon enough to let him decide what to do with her and everyone else's fate. Kinda reminds me about all those times where she's asked him for permission to do stuff. What's up with that anyhow? Why does she look up to Kyon in that sense? As some sort of authority... |
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2011-01-06, 02:26 | Link #578 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Thanks again! |
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2011-01-06, 13:15 | Link #579 | |
Math Ninja
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ventura County CA
Age: 59
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Quote:
Yes, I'm old... |
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2011-01-06, 13:53 | Link #580 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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The point is that he didn't die because somebody saved him. That "somebody" just happened to be his future self, that's all.
Look, Mikuru isn't even born yet, so how could she be serving Kyon tea? Because she is SUPPOSE to be serving Kyon tea, so her adult self sent her younger self to Kyon's time. If Kyon died then no one would have saved him. But he didn't, so he was saved. The only problem was that Kyon did not immediately perform the rescue mission after the fact, but instead delayed it until later. This causes problems, because if he end up dying for ANY other reason before he could perform his own rescue mission, then he wouldn't just die; he would rip a hole in space-time by creating a paradox. Quote:
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best movie ever, haruhi suzumiya |
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