Macross Frontier 2nd Movie: Sayonara no Tsubasa

[magnuskn]

Many, many thanks, karice.

BTW, re: that Yoshino interview, sometimes it's amazing how even the writer himself misreads a character. Alto certainly came off a lot less clueless than Yoshino talked about him. If you follow Yoshinos reasoning, Alto was dumb as a rock.

[AlaAlba]

yo, welcome back Karice!
did you bring home some merchandises with you?
I want this one if you have it

[karice67]

^
tadaima

ughh...don't get me started on the merchandise. I only managed to get the pamphlet, the SMS phone strap (which I probably wouldn't have bought had the other stuff been available) and the Sheryl hair 'scrunchy'. That earring strap was amongst the items sold out by the time I got there (grr!), along with this bag charm and key holder!

Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but unlike Nodame Cantabile, it seems like they aren't available online. If they were, I'd order them in a flash!

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by karice67

Perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but unlike Nodame Cantabile, it seems like they aren't available online. If they were, I'd order them in a flash!

Says who, Karice?

Though you should have rampaged through most anime commodity store (like animate or movic or anything!) and pre-order them before the movie officially opened... Currently, almost everything is in re-stocking and that one earring strap in particular will be errr... Restocked in April. Better than sprawling in auction sites though.

For more details on goods restocked in what month, here is the info. (For the guys overseas? ... Uhh, proxy service man, proxy service. :x)

(I haven't checked Rakuten in any case, so you should try that one Busy with applications atm orz Plus I'm holding off my desire to visit shopping sites... Is that my bank account crying this month? ;_;)

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Moved from the Romance thread.

By the way, and correct if I'm wrong raile, Yot-chan or karice, but, about that scene...

Spoiler for thesis on movie ending:

Ranka says "promise me", right? Was there a "return to me" somewhere in that dialogue? If there was, did Alto not promise her? I mean, he hugged her, isn't that like saying "I promise." If so, he lied. He ended up MIA/KIA at the end.

This is kinda foolish of Kawamori because it isn't something Alto would do, not in a battle/final moment situation. And Alto knew the possibilities of not coming back yet makes the promise even so. In the end, this made me realize it kinda leans towards AruRan again without anyone noticing.

Because, he rejects Ranka's feelings and tells Sheryl (a dying woman) that he loves her right before he disappears/dies; it makes me think that perhaps he didn't want to string Ranka down. If I am not mistaken, raile posted up a summary here that says Alto was trapped the moment he spoke out to reject Ranka and admit love to Sheryl.

This is my interpretation without watching the actual scene, and it is a possibility, but perhaps he didn't tell Ranka he loved her because he didn't want to tie her down. And remember that "/Aishiteru" can be used in a family/friendly way. I do not say this to falter your moral for AruSherri but stating my thesis without watching it. But there is proof there in the summary I just linked you too.

Think over it:
Instead of responding to Ranka's feelings the moment they are alone, he accepts her request to keep it to himself until the end, then hugs her, and promises to return. Then he becomes trapped in the end (Golden wings appear on Alto's plane, he uses it to stop the Galaxy-Queen's movements but now he cannot get away.). At knowing he's meeting his end, he rejects Ranka's feelings but Sheryl (who's dying) he says .
Now, sometimes this is used in a platonic way to say "I love you, sister." Remember that Ranka says the same word to her brother at the beginning of the series. It is not always used in a romantic way.
Now that I've mentioned this, who is likely to die? Alto and Sheryl. Who is likely to survive and mourn? Ranka. And what does Alto do? He rejects Ranka in his final moments because he knows he won't live to be with her, hence making her mourn for him. But Sheryl is likely to die too from her disease, so he confesses to her. Then both pretty much die, as Alto folds with the Vajra queen and is MIA/KIA and Sheryl is in a coma. And who's left to mourn? Ranka. But there's hope for Sheryl. How much hope is there for Alto? Almost none.

See how I come up with the thesis above from this?

You spent so much time on this, don't worry, I'll fav it when you post this up on fanfiction.net, I promise!

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Am I still not allowed to have my thesis based on gathered information from the spoilers of the movie? That's kinda mean.

As I said before, if Alto was this emotionally meticulous, he wouldn't be Alto. Personally, I think you are behaving very similar to Ranka, wishing and hoping Alto to be something you want him to be, except he is anything but.

Nonetheless, you are certainly welcomed to have your own thesis.











I just don't buy it.

- Tak

[raile]

LMK...

Spoiler for Ugh.:

The END of Triangle (that is the name of the freaking soundtrack). Alto loves Sheryl (his confession got cut off ala Michael), the end. Honestly, this is getting really, really silly. =_=
You're spinning the facts and putting a totally unrelated meaning into certain scenes (without having even seen the movie) to suit yourself like you did with the other discussions and series.

[KaoruLia]

Originally Posted by raile

LMK...

Spoiler for Ugh.:

The END of Triangle (that is the name of the freaking soundtrack). Alto loves Sheryl (his confession got cut off ala Michael), the end. Honestly, this is getting really, really silly. =_=
You're spinning the facts and putting a totally unrelated meaning into certain scenes (without having even seen the movie) to suit yourself like you did with the other discussions and series.

Spoiler for movie 2:

I agree. It's perfectly fine to come up with your own thesis, but it has to be a PLAUSIBLE theory that can be backed up by facts. Theorizing about Alto having feelings for Ranka in the TV series is perfectly plausible, but NOT in the movie.

Btw, you should wait until you watch the movie yourself before making any assumptions. You're just setting up yourself for more disappointment.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

Says who, Karice?

Thank you! (hehe...knew someone here would be far more aware of these things then me...and you're right, having them posted to one of my friends there BEFORE I actually went to Japan would have been the smart thing to do...) Now to plot about how to get them...

Though darnit...is the bag charm not restocking...? That's the one I REALLY want.

=====

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Moved from the Romance thread.

By the way, and correct if I'm wrong raile, Yot-chan or karice, but, about that scene...

Spoiler for thesis on movie ending:

Ranka says "promise me", right? Was there a "return to me" somewhere in that dialogue? If there was, did Alto not promise her? I mean, he hugged her, isn't that like saying "I promise." If so, he lied. He ended up MIA/KIA at the end.

This is kinda foolish of Kawamori because it isn't something Alto would do, not in a battle/final moment situation. And Alto knew the possibilities of not coming back yet makes the promise even so. In the end, this made me realize it kinda leans towards AruRan again without anyone noticing.

Because, he rejects Ranka's feelings and tells Sheryl (a dying woman) that he loves her right before he disappears/dies; it makes me think that perhaps he didn't want to string Ranka down. If I am not mistaken, raile posted up a summary here that says Alto was trapped the moment he spoke out to reject Ranka and admit love to Sheryl.

This is my interpretation without watching the actual scene, and it is a possibility, but perhaps he didn't tell Ranka he loved her because he didn't want to tie her down. And remember that "爱してる/Aishiteru" can be used in a family/friendly way. I do not say this to falter your moral for AruSherri but stating my thesis without watching it. But there is proof there in the summary I just linked you too.

Think over it:
Instead of responding to Ranka's feelings the moment they are alone, he accepts her request to keep it to himself until the end, then hugs her, and promises to return. Then he becomes trapped in the end (Golden wings appear on Alto's plane, he uses it to stop the Galaxy-Queen's movements but now he cannot get away.). At knowing he's meeting his end, he rejects Ranka's feelings but Sheryl (who's dying) he says 爱してる.
Now, sometimes this is used in a platonic way to say "I love you, sister." Remember that Ranka says the same word to her brother at the beginning of the series. It is not always used in a romantic way.
Now that I've mentioned this, who is likely to die? Alto and Sheryl. Who is likely to survive and mourn? Ranka. And what does Alto do? He rejects Ranka in his final moments because he knows he won't live to be with her, hence making her mourn for him. But Sheryl is likely to die too from her disease, so he confesses to her. Then both pretty much die, as Alto folds with the Vajra queen and is MIA/KIA and Sheryl is in a coma. And who's left to mourn? Ranka. But there's hope for Sheryl. How much hope is there for Alto? Almost none.

See how I come up with the thesis above from this?

Well, as Tak said, you are quite welcome to your own thesis. And I'm sure there are people who might well agree with you.

I'm just not one of them. But you (and everyone else) will need to watch the scene in question for yourself, so til then, that's all I'll say on the subject.

Also, my apologies if it seemed like I was just ignoring you (I really was going to reply when I got home today, if only briefly).

[vivitoru]

@LoveMeKags

Spoiler for movie:

You're right. If he had really wanted to say he loved her, Alto'd rather have said "Sheriru daisuk...!"

And good call on your part! Spotting Hikaru's acting towards Minmay: most people don't notice it at that point in the series.

Shame on Yoshino though! Saying Alto wasn't that aware of his feelings when he's obviously such a deep thinker! Another common case of a character being two steps ahead of his creator.

[Natsuki Hyuga]

Originally Posted by karice67

Thank you! (hehe...knew someone here would be far more aware of these things then me...and you're right, having them posted to one of my friends there BEFORE I actually went to Japan would have been the smart thing to do...) Now to plot about how to get them...

Though darnit...is the bag charm not restocking...? That's the one I REALLY want.

Good luck on getting the goods you want~~ If you're staying for at least a week more in Japan, I think you could get the available goods you're targetting shipped with pretty little cost to free of costs and pretty fast~ (Last time I get my cousin to hold off my goods for me, she get it one day before the store release. So if you;re in Japan area, the latest the shipping can get is 1 full day :3)

As for the bag charm, I can only suggest you stalk the manufacturer (or sales agency) movic, and just hope that it will be a popular demand that it worth restocking for them. (Here is the Sayonara no Tsubasa goods page (not including the Bandai's manufactured goods). Other than that... Well, auction is the fastest (though definitely is not cheap. No wai. D: ) way to get it. And I think I saw a set with Sheryl's earring/earring strap.

/cough I swear this should be in Merchandise thread, but /

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by KaoruLia

Spoiler for movie 2:

I agree. It's perfectly fine to come up with your own thesis, but it has to be a PLAUSIBLE theory that can be backed up by facts. Theorizing about Alto having feelings for Ranka in the TV series is perfectly plausible, but NOT in the movie.

Spoiler for spoiler:

I'd say up until a certain point in the series it is plausible. Afterwards, not so much anymore.

[karice67]

@Natsuki
Let's move that conversation somewhere else ^^

====

Originally Posted by KaoruLia

Spoiler for movie 2:

I agree. It's perfectly fine to come up with your own thesis, but it has to be a PLAUSIBLE theory that can be backed up by facts. Theorizing about Alto having feelings for Ranka in the TV series is perfectly plausible, but NOT in the movie.

Er...if I remember what most people's impressions were correctly, it's quite plausible in the first movie.

====

On a slightly separate note, I think certain people need to watch episode 20 again.

And I need to stay OFF the forum.

[yakisobapan]

Finally got around to watching the movie yesterday, and I was greatly pleased.
While there seems to be mixed feelings about the ending among some fans, I thought that it was very well done. The love triangle was resolved in a satisfying way, and in contrast to the ending of the TV series, the ending left a quite deep impression this time around.

All in all, I can say that I enjoyed the movies more than the TV series, which is quite a feat since I loved the TV series aswell.

[raile]

Originally Posted by vivitoru

@LoveMeKags

Spoiler for movie:

You're right. If he had really wanted to say he loved her, Alto'd rather have said "Sheriru daisuk...!"

And good call on your part! Spotting Hikaru's acting towards Minmay: most people don't notice it at that point in the series.

Shame on Yoshino though! Saying Alto wasn't that aware of his feelings when he's obviously such a deep thinker! Another common case of a character being two steps ahead of his creator.

Oh you sarcastic fool, you.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by karice67

Said Yoshino interview is here. And just like someone else mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread, I seem to remember seeing something about Yoshino on which girl Alto was leaning towards (for the TV series)... To be honest, based on that and something else that was translated around the initial broadcast of episode 17, I think Yoshino and Kawamori weren't all that different in their opinion on the triangle...

I'd like to think so too, considering the promotion merchandising too. ^^;

Originally Posted by karice67

This is just my impression (and it's a week old!) but if you really want to know...

Spoiler for the sunset 'date':

I felt that it started off with a good atmosphere (Ranka knew from Ozma that SMS was going on a company vacation to that beach/resort at the same time that she had a shoot there, so she made plans with Alto to hang out), but Alto kind of ruined it a little when Ranka brings up the question of "why did the Vajra not kill me'? (or something like that). Basically, he flipped out/laughed at Ranka's idea that the Vajra had emotions...

Even though he came around a little towards the end of that day, it never even came close to the Sheryl date in the first movie (and the TV series)

Spoiler for response:

You could say this romantic/platonic distinction is even more pronounced in the second movie.

And 'Yes'.

Spoiler for movie spoilers:

I thought the scene was to be add to contrast with the lake/forest scene where Alto and Sheryl share a lot of romantic chemistry. So mmm... I wasn't far off the intention.

Just as I thought. The platonic vs romantic thing.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

And does anyone happen to think that

Spoiler for Ranka:

perhaps Ranka singing at the beginning of the 1st movie is connected to the final scenes from the 2nd movie? She is singing in a grass field. It was just a thought.

This is the only thing that I partly agree on

Spoiler for spoilers:

Ranka AND Sheryl both singing Diamond Crevasse was foreboding, wasn't it?

I don't think it was the conclusion (as Sheryl's finishing the song), but a hint it was going to end in tears. Which is what I thought before the spoilers came out... I even called out if anyone gets a shaft, would be Alto.

Also... Kawamori asked the audience to watch Macross Zero to understand and get in the mood for the second movie.

Not the first.

Spoiler for spoilers:

I'd say cute, little girl who is left unscathed is more Mao-like than older sister figure of that girl. There was even a comparison between them in the TV series, where, you know, Ranka played Mao Nome and projected Mao's feelings for Shin and Sara into Alto and Sheryl. Plus that glowy folded stuff...

[moncikoma]

Originally Posted by yakisobapan

Finally got around to watching the movie yesterday, and I was greatly pleased.
While there seems to be mixed feelings about the ending among some fans, I thought that it was very well done. The love triangle was resolved in a satisfying way, and in contrast to the ending of the TV series, the ending left a quite deep impression this time around.

All in all, I can say that I enjoyed the movies more than the TV series, which is quite a feat since I loved the TV series aswell.

i hope it is...i am hoping to see more sheryl x alto...
is ranka singing aimo again? or DYRL....i hate when she sings that

[Thess]

I hate covers. 'Nuff said. I know they are done for reference and nostalgia reasons, but I dislike them.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

You see how I get this thesis now?

Now you had me thinking.

When Ranka refused to sing in episode 17, I believe that was the beginning of a long-planned scheme, which would eventually cumulate to the total and utter destruction of the Frontier fleet.

And how she did it was absolutely brilliant. It was a multi-layered plan with numerous intricate alternatives that rendered the core of the plan itself nearly faultless!

First of all, she deliberately ordered the Vajra to attack, but disguised it so well that it would appear as if she was underperforming. Yet, so precise was the attack that Alto & Sheryl would be separated, leaving the princess to be under Ranka's influence. She then used the opportunity to spend a few moments of respite with Alto, but in the process, she was in fact planning her next step.

Realizing without the help of Valkyries, Klan would have to macronize in order to fend off the Vajra, Ranka then ordered the Vajra to attack the cloning chambers, and orchestrated the death of Mikhail, whose death Ranka knew, would trigger Klan's Zentran rage and leaving both Klan & Alto in a desperate situation to survive. Yet, at the same time, it would mean their attention would be focused upon the Vajra, and not the complexity of Ranka's plans. How she steered any potential suspicion of her intent elsewhere was absolutely brilliant.


When she finally decided to depart from the Frontier, she deliberately called Alto very late at night but had Berera hidden and ready for an ambush. Little did Alto realize this was another of Ranka's trap, and he was, as expected, ambushed by Brera in his VF-27, while enduring (powerlessly) the kidnap of Ranka. Lacking the means to salvage his already tattered masculinity, Alto had no alternatives than to swear vengeance against Brera. Ranka had expected this, and as later events would prove, the Frontier fleet steered right into Ranka's trap...

- Tak

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

But despite that, I'll still go with my thesis on the movie until I see the Blu-Ray and any extras on it. When I can prove it in facts.

I've seen what you do with your so-called facts, they are quite substandard and I am less than impressed.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

But honestly, think on it long and hard before you joke at me like that. It's kinda rude to me.

Hey pumpkin, you started it.

- Tak