2011-03-20, 23:20 | Link #1141 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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It's the whole reason the Bureau's even fighting them at all, and it will also potentially affect the protagonist. That's a pretty big deal.
Hivemind! And I dunno if that automatically makes them Anti-Villains. Lots of villains arguably want to safeguard stuff, but they're not things that should always stay around. |
2011-03-20, 23:26 | Link #1142 |
Burst Mode
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And yet in other cases, such as when Guts slaughters a ton of people, the killer is touted as being an ultra cool bad ass.
People are pretty inconsistant when it comes to decrying people for taking the life of another. Frankly, it'll take more than killing people to push some one over the moral event horizon for me. Especially when I know the circumstances behind it. Besides, it's not like they're eating kittens.
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2011-03-21, 01:16 | Link #1144 | ||
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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On the sides, eh, I'm probably Neutral. (because both entertain me equally as much) We know the TSAB isn't exactly squeaky clean organization. With the Jail thing, Zest, Megane/Lutecia,etc. (Also Nanoha cheats at Uno. How can you trust an organization with their ace doing that?) |
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2011-03-21, 01:32 | Link #1145 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada, Sault Ste. Marie
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Justified? You say that like her views are all automatically incorrect. I know you guys like to look for flaws in the heroes now, but I don't even know what you're getting at there.
Does Nanoha even have views beyond training? I'm confused. |
2011-03-21, 01:46 | Link #1147 | |
Mastermind Rational
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Omniscient Morality License a la Lacus and Kira? Jesus Takamachi?
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2011-03-21, 01:48 | Link #1148 |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Tsuzuki is trying to make the Huckebein into a family of mass murder woobies. So far their reasons are understandable, but still hard to buy it because of their high amoral actions. the Wolkenritter killed in the past, but they actively trying to stopo doing that and are willing to surrender once their objetive is accomplished. The younger numbers were little kids unkowing of their situation, and the older ones didn't get a full befriending(plausible because they're very councsicious of their criminal actions).
The Huckebein are similar yet different because of their attitude of "screw the world, we're invincible". Protect their family is a very valid reason but they haven't showed any symphaty points beyond that. As much of a Badass Curren is, her attitude is a pain in the butt, i thinked of her as a pretty cool character until the moment i was able to finally read what she says(so yeah, she commits one of the same mistakes as Cypha). The Wolkenritter are proud of their fighting skills but never were bitches about it. Only few Numbers were really smuggy about their actions and mostly all of them receive a very hard punishment for their dickery. Tsuzuki appears to be pretty inconsistent about the Hucks, some time they show they family dinamics or is implied they have more uhm "noble" reasons behind their act but at the next page they act like a bunch of total assholes again xDU. They're very confusing, hope their characters get more stablishment in future chapters, but for now it's a relief they retreated i'm tired of seeing those guys faces, it's time for some Tohma plot developement xD. EDIT: Same here. Did Nanoha ever confronts Uno?
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2011-03-21, 01:57 | Link #1149 |
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Curren pretty much exactly mirrored what Cypha did, really, just in one chapter: thrash a character soundly, then act like a jerk about it. The characters they did it to were even part of the same family. I kind of assumed she'd be less cocky than Fortis, but I guess the only Worthy Opponent here is Deville.
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2011-03-21, 02:06 | Link #1151 | |
The Flame Crussader
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Nanoha cheated in Uno? When that happens? I'm really curious about that xD.
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2011-03-21, 02:24 | Link #1152 | ||||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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In my opinion, this whole moral ambiguity is actually Tsuzuki's goal. It's a staple of Nanohaverse to create villains who's actions can infer some form of support. The fact that we're even having this debate shows that Tsuzuki is quite successful in this regard.
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They're bad guys. Generally bad guys are designed to be dislikable. Quote:
Try not to fight, maybe. But trying to avoid needless fighting is a whole different thing. A criminal cartel will try to reduce fighting with the cops anyway they can, doesn't stop them being a criminal cartel. Quote:
The morality of killing depends on the setting. In a war movie, killing is expected and so nobody frowns upon it. In a detective movie, killing is wrong and thus frowned upon. Nanoha's moral line falls into the second category. While not a detective series per se, it has always touted killing as wrong, which pushes the Hucks into the 'bad guy' territory. Quote:
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2011-03-21, 02:35 | Link #1154 |
Even if it just for a bit
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cold Storage
Age: 32
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,,,Why are they called inconsistencies? the Nanoha universe has always being grey and not black and white.
The hucks care about each other and screw everyone else, is just that they are "darker" than the wolkies.
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2011-03-21, 02:38 | Link #1155 |
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With other villains, though, it never flip-flopped from 'oh, look how horrible they are!' to 'oh, they're not so bad after all' this obviously or abrupt. You get Cypha being evil and monstrous in chapter 7, and then Arnage mocking Isis' breasts in 8.
Maybe it's because of the dark atmosphere. This story would probably be fine with StrikerS' tone, but I guess they decided it needed blood and body horror. |
2011-03-21, 02:45 | Link #1156 |
Even if it just for a bit
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cold Storage
Age: 32
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Eeeh that just makes them more human for me, but so says the guy that has Curren for avatar so...
Also, the datk atmosphere had always been there, it was just hidden between all the ship teasing, moe stuff and such. See Zest and Lutecia plot on StrikerS.
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2011-03-21, 02:59 | Link #1157 |
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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That worked well, though.
Really, it's just the Huckebeins who are cartoonishly evil (Cypha, Veyron) that make them not work for me. Even after a difficult life, who acts like that, seriously? Jail and Quattro had some reasoning for it, at least. |
2011-03-21, 03:01 | Link #1158 | |
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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Frustrating, but well done in my opinion. |
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manga, nanoha force |
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