Are Ero-games that fun?

[Cloudkiller1]

I say they're okay but a tad hard to find. (I'm on 56k by the way so no BT for me). But if you're looking for a good clean Ren'ai game you can always try Hourglass of Summer. But before you start yelling for some reason, just give em a try. If not, might I reccomend Shuffle! ?

[Vexx]

My only beef with erogames has to do with the technology and the minimal number of "choose your path" points. I'm only focusing on the ones with actual stories in which the sexual aspects are just one element (e.g. AIR, Shuffle!, etc). The soundscape (music score and voice acting) are often well done. The artwork is usually pretty good .... and they can be played on even rather primitive computers.
However, therein lies my complaint. The ability exists to produce stories with hundreds of decision points (or at least the impression you're actually getting to make choices) and a.i. characters that never exactly repeat their locations, actions, or moves. Some of the better solo RPGs have these sorts of massively multipath stories.
What we have is a very pretty, nice sounding, lushly written ..... simplified Zork.
It would be nice to see some innovation in the romance sim sector. Just think of the otaku vibrating into atoms at a romance sim with some expert system aspects. Produce fewer of them and put the extra resources into what you do.

I suspect however... that until the otaku market stops buying the same old stuff again, we won't see much innovation.

edit: as an American, I understand Lina's sweeping generalization --- some of our provincial attitudes drive me nuts when I have trouble differentiating between an intolerant 3rd world tribal culture and what comes out of the mouth of my neighbors. But I reserve the right to think Lina is a Volvo mechanic and all his sisters are related to ABBA .. or Bjork .... and he's a communist... or did they fight against the communists in ww2? But they have a really nice telephone system I hear...
(the preceding is complete lunacy, as I think very highly of Lina and his posts and you can find stupid pondscum in any gathering of humans as Eclipze so deftly explains
What we need to do is figure out how to get them all onto the B Ark and invoke the Giant Star Goat plan.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by Vexx

My only beef with erogames has to do with the technology and the minimal number of "choose your path" points. I'm only focusing on the ones with actual stories in which the sexual aspects are just one element (e.g. AIR, Shuffle!, etc). The soundscape (music score and voice acting) are often well done. The artwork is usually pretty good .... and they can be played on even rather primitive computers.
However, therein lies my complaint. The ability exists to produce stories with hundreds of decision points (or at least the impression you're actually getting to make choices) and a.i. characters that never exactly repeat their locations, actions, or moves. Some of the better solo RPGs have these sorts of massively multipath stories.
What we have is a very pretty, nice sounding, lushly written ..... simplified Zork.
It would be nice to see some innovation in the romance sim sector. Just think of the otaku vibrating into atoms at a romance sim with some expert system aspects. Produce fewer of them and put the extra resources into what you do.

I suspect however... that until the otaku market stops buying the same old stuff again, we won't see much innovation.

I have often resisted the temptation to buy "ero games" simply because the girl on the box cover is cute. To date, I only bought two well established franchises considered gems among the rubble, Shuffle! and ToHeart2. The story's good, the music's excellent, the characters are of course superb, but in the end, it's still one very expensive "choose-your-pathway picture book with voices" to me.

[DaFool]

Originally Posted by Vexx

My only beef with erogames has to do with the technology and the minimal number of "choose your path" points. I'm only focusing on the ones with actual stories in which the sexual aspects are just one element (e.g. AIR, Shuffle!, etc). The soundscape (music score and voice acting) are often well done. The artwork is usually pretty good .... and they can be played on even rather primitive computers.
However, therein lies my complaint. The ability exists to produce stories with hundreds of decision points (or at least the impression you're actually getting to make choices) and a.i. characters that never exactly repeat their locations, actions, or moves. Some of the better solo RPGs have these sorts of massively multipath stories.
What we have is a very pretty, nice sounding, lushly written ..... simplified Zork.
It would be nice to see some innovation in the romance sim sector. Just think of the otaku vibrating into atoms at a romance sim with some expert system aspects. Produce fewer of them and put the extra resources into what you do.

I suspect however... that until the otaku market stops buying the same old stuff again, we won't see much innovation.

Some of the best visual novels actually don't have any choices Like for example, Higurashi. (haven't played it...only in JP currently, but it's a hot seller) The stronger the storytelling, the less path options. The best story only has a single, unique, creator's vision. A visual novel, after all, is a narrative....thus it isn't fair to compare it to an open-ended free-roaming RPG. Notice that the few RPGs that have voice-acting are the ones with fewer, constrained, story plots. The open-ended ones tend to stick with text-only dialogues, as doing voice recording for all possible permutations is inconceivable. I rarely play open-ended RPGs such as MMORPGs since I really do care for a great narrative, unless the battle system is excellent.

Which brings me to the next point...if online human players provide the needed variability, then what's the point of programming extended variability into a single-player experience? Why not just make online dating sims? And yes, I believe they have already done that, such as with some recent installations of Tokimeki Memorial franchise.

They have also made hybrid ero-game-RPGs such as Brave Soul, ero-game-fighters such as Battle Raper, ero-game-mecha action such as Sakura Taisen.

What we're talking mostly here are visual novels...and in my opinion, the closer they approach a book (i.e. fewer story paths, and stronger ones for those that remain), the better. Have you tried Narcissu? It's a minimalist doujinshi visual novel that has no choices whatsoever, no animations, just a few rehashed backgrounds, an excellent acoustic soundtrack, and one of the best darn stories I have read in all my experience with literature.

[Newprimus]

I love erogames. They provide a different kind of entertainment compared to most other games I play (not to say those other games are not hideously fun in their own ways). Some of them I play just cause the characters are really, really cute and funny, and others cause the story's good. Some have both.

They're also the looooooooooooongest games ever, so I only play when I have a lot of time to burn.


Oh Text Hooker typically handles my Japanese language deficiency, but some games that I really, really want to play, like Utawarerumono, can't be hack-translated.


EDIT: Eh, I wouldn't necessarily say that the stronger the storytelling, the less path options. Tsukihime has path options, doesn't it? I'm sure Fate/stay night has path options too. Cross Channel is a personal favorite, although it has only one general story path, but with multiple options inside. Of course, I don't know what your standard of a 'good story' is.

[Thany]

Originally Posted by Shinova

EDIT: Eh, I wouldn't necessarily say that the stronger the storytelling, the less path options. Tsukihime has path options, doesn't it? I'm sure Fate/stay night has path options too. Cross Channel is a personal favorite, although it has only one general story path, but with multiple options inside. Of course, I don't know what your standard of a 'good story' is.

Actually the choices will not be only for H value some might change the story a bit

[Spuffy]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

...but in the end, it's still one very expensive "choose-your-pathway picture book with voices" to me.

I think for the story focused games they are not that expensive if you look to the ammount of entertainment you get from them. A R2 import DVD will cost me 4000-5000 (and sometimes more) JPY and offers 50 minutes. A good bishoujo game on the other hand, which typically comes 8 800 JPY, can give as much as 40 hours and more, especially if there are many routes.

So while they will cost you more than your average console game, you get much for what you pay. If it's a good one, that is.

[DaFool]

Originally Posted by Shinova

EDIT: Eh, I wouldn't necessarily say that the stronger the storytelling, the less path options. Tsukihime has path options, doesn't it? I'm sure Fate/stay night has path options too. Cross Channel is a personal favorite, although it has only one general story path, but with multiple options inside. Of course, I don't know what your standard of a 'good story' is.

I believe Fate/Stay Night has 3 main path options....contrast this with the 20+ path endings I've seen with some licensed English games I've played. Well, this is just my limited experience, but it does seem most of those endings are 'bad' endings, where 'bad' means you just quit out of the game and no longer progress....this is different from a 'sad' ending (A sad ending can be a 'good' ending, such as with Kana ~Imouto)

Hmmm, it's a bit unfair to do price / entertainment hours comparison test... definitely printed novels and even newspapers would win hands-down. The experiences of watching a movie is more intense than reading a book. Similarly, playing an FPS is more intense than playing an ero-game. That's why the price / entertainment hours ratio of ero-games must be close to those of books.

[tragicsmile]

I wouldn't say fun as in FPS fun - it's more of "engaging". Of course, I'm talking about visual novels like Narcissu (a personal favorite) and not annoying trash like Paradise Heights or those other click-fap games. I know quite a few people who would be rather dismayed at the generalizations made in this thread, so I'd like to point those curious to this helpful little definition.

[Muir Woods]

What a vague question, and the lack of a focused abstract further hinders our response. It may be helpful to tackle this broad topic/question with a critical approach. Define “fun”, and define “games”. No doubt their definitions will have a relationship with each other. Subsequently are “visual novels” with images and text and a few choices a “game” under your definition? We need to establish a major consensus of these keywords before we even begin to delve into answering the question.

I’ll just give my account of “ero-games” in my life; hopefully it’ll serve at the very least a data point for others to use/synthesize. I’m a hardcore computer domestic gamer, and a very inexperienced “ero/hentai” gamer. I’ve only played a few ero-games, and I can count them all in one hand. Before I discovered anime, I did not have any interest nor reason to play ero-games. It took a while after I became immersed in anime to decide to play an ero-game. In being into anime, consequently I ventured into anime-related parts of the internet, such as this forum. It is in these places that I read about these great games that exist in this genre; so as a gamer, I felt obligated to give these supposedly great games a try as I wondered about their praises. It was more to satisfy my curiosity than anything else. After playing a few of these “games”, I learned few things; the appeals of ero-games, their sub types and cross genres, and possible strengths available only to this genre. But am I an ero-game fan? No. I am neutral and generally apathetic to games released in this genre, but I am open to play one once in a while should I hear/read an exceptional mention of an ero-game. This is my current attitude towards such games (or sometimes rather, programs).

Originally Posted by Vexx

The ability exists to produce stories with hundreds of decision points (or at least the impression you're actually getting to make choices) and a.i. characters that never exactly repeat their locations, actions, or moves. Some of the better solo RPGs have these sorts of massively multipath stories.
What we have is a very pretty, nice sounding, lushly written ..... simplified Zork.
It would be nice to see some innovation in the romance sim sector. Just think of the otaku vibrating into atoms at a romance sim with some expert system aspects. Produce fewer of them and put the extra resources into what you do.

Or, instead of hundreds of decision points, have (near) infinite. In other words, have the game run in real time. Façade showed this to be possible. I remember I posted a thread about the interactive game (one could argue that simulation is a more accurate description), Façade back during last summer. The thread is unfortunately lost due to the hack incident, but I'll give a brief description and implications of Façade. This game has you playing the role of a mediator between an estranged couple, Grace and Trip, distinct (generally realistic) AI personalities that respond to your input (anything you type, as a male or female), all in real time. It is extremely open ended, like a sandbox. There are many ways to solve (or worsen, if you’re malevolent) this scenario, leading to multiple ends. Basically, and in a sense, literally, you write your own story. This is a new level of artificial simulation. In a real time structure with AI, the game becomes fluid, instead of rigid paths. The restriction is lifted from choices available, to the AI personalities and situation itself, imitating real life. I speculated back then that ero-games could take advantage of this game’s technology. It’s not hard to imagine Grace and Trip replaced with other AI personalities (for example, of archetypical girls), with corresponding voice acting, presented in different premises and in anime style. Of course, it sounds easier said than done as there are tough hurdles (eg. reprogramming/creating new AI, recording a very broad range of responses) to overcome, but it’s possible. Imagine an ero-game like this, where you begin with a typical scenario: “Wake up, it’s morning!” and you open your eyes to the sight of a female childhood friend/little sister. And anything goes from there…just a setting, AI personalities of ero-game girls, and your own imagination. It would feel like you’re starring and writing your own (harem) anime. I certainly would give it a shot.

[zalas]

Originally Posted by DaFool

Some of the best visual novels actually don't have any choices Like for example, Higurashi. (haven't played it...only in JP currently, but it's a hot seller) The stronger the storytelling, the less path options. The best story only has a single, unique, creator's vision.

I beg to differ. A game that uses the multi-path nature to the fullest in telling the story is probably on the same level, if not higher, than a story told fully linearly. A story told nonlinearly allows the author to provide many different, if not opposing, viewpoints on the events that transpire. In essence, it allows you to see the full picture much more clearly. Basically, a beautiful and exquisite sculpture is probably best appreciated by looking at it from various distances and directions rather from one single direction. Of course, a terrible sculpture will look pretty bad either way.

[NoemiChan]

hello, I'm now playing the Sono Hanabira game series right now and actually I find the game interesting ( you know right?).

I'm not a fan of yuri animes and I stand on that view. But when in terms with ero/ visual novel games, it's the opposite, I love them.

You may say hey, that's kinda stupid to say. Well, I tell you frankly, I watch and listen on the game ONLY. I repeat WATCH and Listen ONLY, jumping from lines pressing the "Enter" fast. Basically I'm not interested on the plot because what matters in an eroge game, duh?

Again, I'm playing Sono Hanabira 1, 2, and 3, and I got couple of nose bleeds every night . hahaha

[Cosmic Eagle]

It depends on the story. I personally love them (most anyway) but it's like asking is anime fun? Are reading LNs fun? etc

[Jaden]

My experience is limited to translated works. I've never quite understood how this genre came to be, especially the pure visual novels without gameplay.

Do most otaku not like books? All visual novels I've read would have worked well as books. Sometimes, there is good voice acting and music and that's certainly something I can appreciate. But the art tends to be mediocre.

Without exception all the H-scenes have felt like a worthless gimmick. As porn, they were mediocre, and added nothing to the story. Fan artists come up with much better stuff. :P

Anime adaptions and fan translations got me into reading VNs, and some of them I really enjoyed. But I still don't understand the appeal of the format. How can it remain so unchanging and popular?

Edit: So I just looked at some dates...nice necromancy there, Genji. Oh well

[Aaerul]

revived an almost 6 year old thread lol *mind goes blank*

yes I love visual novels and eroge so much I started a blog on it. often, the content is very similar to the kind of material you would find in LNs and late-night anime. lots of otaku or fujoshi catered content and yet it is different... it is so Different.

In one sentence I would summarize as: "It is more personal. more personal than anything you have ever experienced bar none."

The guy above who said the art is mediocre could not possibly be more wrong. it is mediocre sometimes and then other times it blows my mind away: http://oreno.imouto.org/post?tags=irotoridori_no_sekai

[caddyalan]

Back when I first discovered visual novels -- almost ten years ago -- there were very few available in English, and of those few options, almost nothing but H-games. Fans were lucky if there was an English version which was not littered with typos and errors.

But when this thread was first active (2006...), I was slowly losing interest in adult VNs. That was a time when the fan translation scene was becoming more active, and when English speaking fans started writing and releasing their own stories.

So what about life in 2011? Well, I occasionally read an adult VN. But most of my current favorites are relatively worksafe. And while some of the stories I've enjoyed include love triangles or harems, I have found more than a few which have other topics. I've grown to appreciate reliable fan translators, indie game creators, and some current translation companies -- especially the small ones which release visual novels on iTunes.

Also, these days I remind myself that Sturgeon's Law is applicable to any media form, style, or genre. I acknowledge that ninety percent of visual novels are crud. But that's equally true for everything else in the world.

[Benoit]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Do most otaku not like books? All visual novels I've read would have worked well as books. Sometimes, there is good voice acting and music and that's certainly something I can appreciate. But the art tends to be mediocre.

Which ones have you played? I don't see them working as well in books at all. Books don't show your graphics at all times with a changing facial expression, for one.

[Undertaker]

I'm with Benoit on this one. Besides, quality of graphic is in the eye of beholder. There are plenty of eroge artist out there that have incredible art. For example Tony.


But I will agree that current eroge in general tends to shift less and less decision points that matters and has become more of VN in this respect, especially with the pure love genre. Personally I still waiting for a eroge from the pure love genre that had such an impact and immersion as Dokyusei series.

[Spamamdorf]

I also agree with Benoit, I think there are a good amount of VN's that simply wouldnt work as books depending on their gimmicks (havent played eroges so cant talk for them) but some things would simply not work as a book, choose your own adventure style or not I couldnt see the big reveal in Ever 17 for example working in a book, like at all

[Flying Dagger]

VN is hmmm... some sort of a crossbreed of books and anime.
Whether or not you like it depends on the story tbh.
Just because it is "ero" or has potential ero content doesn't make it any better/worse, nor should it be the deciding factor of whether or not you want to invest the time.