2013-03-14, 18:07 | Link #1221 |
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And after we saw the effects of the Battle of PunkHazard... I really have to wonder how Luffy can ever reach THAT level of strenght... 2 admirals whose powers were around WB's level... I am really excited to see how Oda will pull this off.
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2013-04-23, 21:29 | Link #1223 | |
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In the end, he was able to take out Akainu and still have energy to take on Blackbeard. This to me shows tremendous strength beyond any character we have seen in the series. Taking the fact of his old age and deteriorating health, he must have been that much stronger in his prime. |
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2013-04-23, 21:56 | Link #1224 |
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^ Whitebeard temporarily incapacitated Akainu, and even then that was at the cost of being fatally wounded (he lost half his face). So technically, it can be argued that Akainu won that skirmish. He got up shortly afterwards and was still trucking through people like nothing.
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2013-04-24, 14:44 | Link #1225 | |
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2013-04-24, 15:57 | Link #1226 | |
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The admirals proved themselves to be on par with Whitebeard. Jozu had to step in and help the old man against Aokiji. Kizaru didn't sustain any injuries. And these skirmishes were before Whitebeard was in a near-death state. What happened here is that Whitebeard didn't quite live up to people's expectations. He may have been the strongest man in the world, but that doesn't mean he was so far above everyone else (and the war proved that). It's still debated to this day if he was in fact the strongest right before his death, because his performance at Marineford wasn't exactly the greatest. You may be an advocate of him being the strongest pre-skip, but one thing that's certain is that he wouldn't stomp another top-tier fighter because that wouldn't make any sense.
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2013-04-24, 16:44 | Link #1227 | ||
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2013-04-24, 16:52 | Link #1229 | ||
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2013-04-24, 18:46 | Link #1230 | |
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Off course we know Whitebeard does not in-fact finish them off but the evidence of these two final encounters with Akainu and Blackbeard clearly show he was superior, even in his injured, old and sick stage. I do agree that you probably have a better case with Aojiki and Kizaru, there is less evidence of Whitebeard's superiority (and one piece does have at least some indication of non-linearity in terms of power levels). However, I do think that Whitebeard was still injured and not directly fighting those two so it can be inferred that he could take them in a one to one from what he did to Akainu and Blackbeard. An anecdotal evidence is a form of speculation and remember the plural of anecdotes is not data. My anecdote of my own personal experience is speculation enough to counter your anecdotal experience of the situation. |
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2013-04-24, 19:14 | Link #1231 | |
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Anyways, Whitebeard didn't exactly prove his superiority over Akainu. It's not something to boast about when you've lost half your face and are about to die whereas your opponent will get up a few minutes later as though nothing happened. Furthermore, in their first skirmish, Akainu and Whitebeard were evenly matched.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2013-04-24 at 21:46. |
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2013-04-26, 02:45 | Link #1232 |
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As of now its hard to tell, before it was WhiteBeard but with him out of the way its any ones game. Luffy as not at that level I think, hes one of the strongest Supernova but...I really do hope we get a big Luffy fight soon to see how far hes come, who can fight this early on? Cuz so far, every one hes fought has been push overs so we can't really tell.
Ask for the topic itself, I think that belongs to Shanks now, thats my opinion though and I really don't feel like getting into a debate this late blah.
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2013-06-16, 07:43 | Link #1233 |
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Pre timeskip the answer is obvious.
Going into this battle with a major health deterioration and a through-and-through wound right besides the heart, smashing through vide admirals (the third strongest force of the marines) like they are nothing, bypassing one admiral and engaging with another without getting a single scratch until he received the fatal heart attack is just crazy. While doing this Whitebeard was 72 years old and wasn't even fighting seriously as seen when Ace died and he destroyed an admiral (!) in two hits. This battle was proof why Whitebeard was called the strongest man alive and that he truly deserved this title. Post timeskip it's another story. With WB's seat left open a couple of hard-hitters come to mind. Personally I'd like to see Luffy and Zoro in a challenging fight so we can compare their strength a little bit better. |
2013-06-16, 09:54 | Link #1234 | |
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To say that Whitebeard wasn't even fighting seriously is silly. The severity of the situation (saving Ace) certainly didn't warrant Whitebeard to mess around. It was a matter of life and death, and we know how seriously Whitebeard takes the well-being of his sons. I've already commented extensively on the final duel between Whitebeard and Akainu. Getting up mere moments later doesn't constitute being "destroyed" (gotta love when people use hyperboles). And it's funny how the Whitebeard advocates (I'm not necessarily saying that you are one) ignore the fact that Whitebeard had to get a cheap-shot in on Akainu in order to put him down just temporarily. Was Whitebeard the strongest pre-skip? Until proven otherwise, yes, he was. However, to say that he was considerably stronger than the other top tiers is flat-out erroneous, as demonstrated by the war. I remember before the war even started, some people were actually saying that Whitebeard could take on all 3 admirals by himself. Any sensible person knows that's idiotic and illogical considering the balance of power between the marines, shichibukai, and yonkou.
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2013-06-16, 17:43 | Link #1235 | ||||
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I'm not a WB fanboy (my favs are Ace and Zoro) but in my eyes it was a little bit different. The quarrel with Aokiji was leading nowhere and ended with one ineffective attack from each side. Jozu's interference was not because Whitebeard was in trouble, he just wanted to stall Aokiji so Whitebeard could move on to the platform. Same with Akainu. Until Whitebeards heart attack they didn't do anything. Remember that at this point WB was 72 years old, had a mortal illness and was stabbed next to the heart. After the heart attack, Akainu's attack and the engagement of numerous marines he just crushed them. The fight against Borsalino was not really interesting. Despite the wounds he suffered while the admiral was still in good health he had time to watch Ace's rescue, afterwards stop the paddle ship one-handed and even nearly destroying marineford with one hit - let alone the fact that after he was half dead he split the island in two. Quote:
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Well, I read through a couple of your statements and I don't think there will be any consensus. To me those battles were just awesome and I share Sengoku's opinion that Whitebeard back then was the strongest man alive. Last edited by ri0; 2013-06-16 at 22:05. |
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2013-06-17, 16:50 | Link #1236 | |||
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WB's age and sickness are what he was during his time in the story. That's the way he was presented to us, and we never caught a glimpse of just how much stronger he was in his prime. So using these factors as excuses doesn't quite fly here because it is what it is. WB's prime is irrelevant. We're comparing feats that we actually saw. Quote:
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I don't have an issue with this. But to say that WB was much stronger than the rest is simply wrong.
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2013-06-18, 04:37 | Link #1237 | |||||
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2013-06-18, 10:09 | Link #1238 |
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My own personal $.02 on this, just for the heck of it:
Pre-timeskip- definitely whitebeard. However, it wasn't just Whitebeard alone that forced the Marines to play their entire hand- there's always the fact that he also had all his command ships plus his New World allies with him, and THAT'S why all the strength the marines had was mustered. As for Whitebeard himself... well, certainly in his prime, he was strong enough take on Gol D. Roger (I'm just going to say it here and now, Gol D. Roger was most likely the strongest character of all time in the entire story, with Garp, Sengoku and Whitebeard pretty much right behind him... but that's 22~24 years before the story began). But since Blackbeard here keeps pointing out that we're debating Whitebeard at Marineford... well, this is very gray territory. I would say he could have taken on one admiral with relative ease, especially at the very beginning of the war, before Squardo stabbed him. Maybe even two of the admirals, though two would definitely be a challenge, especially considering all injuries and his age. As for all three.... that's pushing the envelope. Heck, all three working together managed to repel his Earthquake attack. Post time skip... well, we have yet to see a lot of the powerhouses from the war in action; in fact, I think that currently we've only had mere glimpses of some of the current powerhouses (Aokiji, who even after leaving the marines has to be nearly as powerful as pre-timeskip, and then there's Doflamingo, who I consider to be the strongest out of all the Shichibukai... and we've only seen the newest admiral give even a hint of what he can do). But, I'm going to stick with my guns and say that Shanks is the strongest character currently... it's my general belief that anyone who has an incredible mastery of haki, such as Shanks (and I personally believe Roger also had extremely powerful haki), are the strongest characters in the story, possibly even above the admirals. Now maybe it was just because there were two Emperors total at the battlefield, but it seemed like Akainu, who is All Pirates Must Be Killed, didn't even want to face Shanks, so that tells you something about Shank's power.
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2013-06-18, 17:02 | Link #1239 | |
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Akainu would have probably kept going if it were not for Sengoku's order to end the war. He hasn't shown any fear towards anyone, after all.
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2013-06-20, 03:40 | Link #1240 |
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I think so too. Easily taking on two admirals at the same time would be, even for Whitebeard, a little bit too much.
Anyways, I'm really looking forward to Doflamingo's, Fujitora's and Luffy's/Zoro's performance in the upcoming chapters to see how far the Mugiwaras in comparison to the Top Tiers have come. |
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