(L) Devil Survivor 2 - Weekly Episode Comparison to the Game

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

The poison in Ronaldo's world is someone incompetent(but not lazy) may be able to become a doctor, for example.

No, the poison in Ronaldo's world is that everyone will attempt to be a doctor for another person even if there is no need for an entire squad of "doctors" for one person.

If you have a crush on another person, everyone including strangers will speak out for you if and try to put you and your love interest together. If you're having trouble putting on a condom for your first time with a girl? If someone else sees, they will put it on for you.

Why? Because in Ronaldo's world, it is now human nature to help out others, even in cases where their help does not belong.

[eiyuu99]

One problem with (pro-ronaldo anti-yamato) supporters is most of them have the same problem.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

I'd also like to hear what's so wrong with a talented and hard working person getting into the positions to improve the society and holding the responsibilities for their thing. It seems like an incredibly selfish thing to complain about from over here.

You misunderstand. I do not resent the talented. I grieve for those who do not have these qualities and will never achieve anything by virtue of being born wrong.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Dengar

You misunderstand. I do not resent the talented. I grieve for those who do not have these qualities and will never achieve anything by virtue of being born wrong.

Ronaldo's world doesn't help those less fortunate achieve anything either. He didn't wish for a world where everyone would be born with equal talent.

The world Ronaldo wished for compels people to act altruistically and help those who are born wrong until the day they are no longer wrong - a day that will never come because Ronaldo's wish does not affect a person's abilities, only their will.

Those less fortunate who are born with nothing to offer will never have anything to offer because they are not allowed to help themselves to improve their own conditions before helping others.

Life requires a balance of giving and taking (which also includes merely requesting and accepting favors from others, not just stealing by force). Ronaldo, so fixated on Yamato taking, creates a world where people do nothing but give until they have nothing left to give because they aren't allowed to take. If an impoverished refugee was given a piece of bread, (s)he would feel compelled in Ronaldo's world to give that piece to another impoverished person before eating any (him/her)self. The cycle would continue indefinitely as the gift as passed around like a hot potato, because they are forced to think "someone must need this more than I do, therefore I should give this away".

I understand Ronaldo hates Yamato's elitism and lack of empathy, but taking away the primal nature of self-interest that provides any living creature with the motivation to look out for themselves is a different extreme that I can't support either.

[Blizzard]

On an unrelated note,

Spoiler for THAT'S IT THAT'S THE ANIME:

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Blizzard

On an unrelated note,

Spoiler for THAT'S IT THAT'S THE ANIME:

When I see that image, I interpret Hibiki's expression as this:

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

When I see that image, I interpret Hibiki's expression as this:

*wheezes* Bless! You either just ruined the entire game for me or made it even more hilarious. IIRC that's his default "Good job." expression for when you do well on the dialogue tree and now I'll go everytime it comes up.

[eiyuu99]

I raise you 1337 macca and call upon operation box

Spoiler:

[Angelic Cross]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

When I see that image, I interpret Hibiki's expression as this:

Man, no matter which way you choose to respond, the game MC is still so much more awesome and interesting than the anime version. I really can't call the game MC "Hibiki" considering how lame the anime version is.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Why Ronaldo's world sucks.

Uhh, if you meant that as something OTHER than a reply to me, then disregard what I'm about to say, but nowhere did I say I was a proponent for communism.

It doesn't actually have to be one or the other, you know?

Originally Posted by Angelic Cross

Man, no matter which way you choose to respond, the game MC is still so much more awesome and interesting than the anime version. I really can't call the game MC "Hibiki" considering how lame the anime version is.

If you don't mind me cutting into this, but personally, I do not think that the game's MC can be 'better' than anything, since the game's MC itself -isn't- anything.

So what you're basically saying is that you find you, yourself, better than Hibiki.

[Blizzard]

On one hand I'm done with every single character in the anime up to and including Hibiki and except maybe Alcor. On the other hand watching him suffer and get traumatized was fun. If anything I dislike how nonchalant and uninvolved the game MC acted towards the mess going around him compared to how deep and alive every other character was. TBH even if he was the main character he kinda felt like an outsider sometimes.

So yeah I'll still take Hibiki. Or at least how he would've been in a well written world that wasn't out to personally traumatize him at every turn. Who knows maybe he wouldn't have been much different from his game self. Rather than hating Hibiki himself I hate the anime and not like every single other character wasn't also suffering from adaptional stupidy. It's like everyone sucked but with him we didn't have a better version to cling to? Basically, I'll take Hibiki as how he would've been handled in game. And besides, I really like that name. Anyway the other manga version, Hiro, was even worse acting like a stiff doll and treated as an arm accessory for Io.

But then that's not something exclusive to DS2 for me. I just like my main characters being actual feeling and hurting CHARACTERS like in Tales of or Final Fantasy series instead of the mouthpieces SMT and Pokemon give us so yeah just personal preference.

Anyway my last thoughts on the anime would be.. hmm... I'll take the flashbacks, core parts of Hibiki, Alcor owning up to what he did to Yamato and maybe some parts of the last episode and pretend rest of it never existed. Especially the treatment Io got with Lugh event and Hibiki's super special Dragon Stream are getting brain bleached... Wow not even a full episode...

BTW does anyone follow the staff interviews? It's like they're crying on the inside. They were talking about how Hibiki would've started with weaker demons if they had 24 episodes or how they planned to have a Yamato vs. Ronaldo showdown in whatever equivalent of episode 12 or how most of them finished up all the paths in the game. Angry as I am with the outcome, I can't help but pity them with how much passion they had in the beginning before getting screwed over. I can't help but feel they said "screw it" at some point and made it as bad as they could so that it could get a remake in the future.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Uhh, if you meant that as something OTHER than a reply to me, then disregard what I'm about to say, but nowhere did I say I was a proponent for communism.

It doesn't actually have to be one or the other, you know?

It wasn't directed at you. It was my personal reasoning on why I can't support Ronaldo's world over Yamato's because I don't see it as helping the weak at all.

[Blizzard]

I think we're all convinced that Ronaldo and Yamato can both zip it with their respective ideal worlds but just discussing the finer details at the moment?

[Angelic Cross]

Originally Posted by Dengar

If you don't mind me cutting into this, but personally, I do not think that the game's MC can be 'better' than anything, since the game's MC itself -isn't- anything.

So what you're basically saying is that you find you, yourself, better than Hibiki.

How can you say it's not anything when you're presented with dialogue choices in the game? The only way the MC can be nothing like you said is if the player, instead of being given PRE-WRITTEN OPTIONS, can write the responses on the fly.

Also you saying this:

So what you're basically saying is that you find you, yourself, better than Hibiki.

says that the dialogue choices are my own personalities. Which I find highly insulting and idiotic. You are basically saying that when I choose to have the MC (in this game and in any game) act like an idiot or a lunatic through the given dialogue choices, that I myself am an idiot/lunatic. My response to which is with something...impolite towards you.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Angelic Cross

says that the dialogue choices are my own personalities. Which I find highly insulting and idiotic. You are basically saying that when I choose to have the MC (in this game and in any game) act like an idiot through the given dialogue choices, that I myself am an idiot. My response to which is with something impolite and would require lots of censoring.

That's just something you make out of my assertion. I assure you I meant nothing more than the thing that I actually did say. No complex hidden underlying meanings there.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Dengar

If you don't mind me cutting into this, but personally, I do not think that the game's MC can be 'better' than anything, since the game's MC itself -isn't- anything.

On the contrary, I think the game's MC is anything because of multiple choices and routes. Al Saiduq does call him the "Shining One", so he has to be the prime example of a human having the largest possibilies when given free will.

That said, certain routes require certain choices and actions, so the MC on the Triumphant Restorer route does have to be defined as appealing, charismatic, strong willed, etc. Since people seem to often attribute nothing but those positive qualities towards him, I'm assuming that's the route people reference when defining the game MC's personality.

[Blizzard]

More like the game MC can be many things but he's not a "character" without a personal arc, struggles or consistency or anything really. He's just whatever the player happened to play him as for that player alone. Kinda unavoidable he'd be made that way when you have four vastly different ideological endings to decide between so meh I guess. But still I dislike seeing him compared with Hibiki since the latter is still a person while the former is a mouthpiece at best and power fantasy at worst. Either was DS2 has a pretty heavy case of "the hero is you" I mean;



So it's not something to blame people about. But I'm actually going to FLIP next time someone starts going on about how their favorite non-existent game personality headcanon is better than Hibiki and I spend more or less the whole anime screaming at Hibiki. Can we please make the distinction between facts and fanons here? Whether it's better or not they're not in the same category so there's nothing to compare. Of course someone's favorite way of playing will be better than what this rushed up mess of an anime forced on them while ruining every other character equally as horribly if not worse since there was something to ruin.

But then I should shut the hell up since I'm more or less clinging to a would-be game Hibiki headcanon here.

[jeroz]

People are complaining about the MC?

they should be talking about Fumi instead.

[eiyuu99]

Headcanon? Are people drunk on sugar or something?

Game hibiki can choose to be a troll, which is at least more amusing since not even a world crisis fazes him.

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by eiyuu99

Headcanon? Are people drunk on sugar or something?

Game hibiki can choose to be a troll, which is at least more amusing since not even a world crisis fazes him.

Ah damn posting from phone again anyway... The players can choose to be a troll. They can also choose to be completely serious, highly oblivious, a joker, a killjoy, a professional, a worrywart, cool as cucumber, openly perverted, borderline homo and anything really. They can choose to get Makoto killed and then join Meritocracy. They can kill Alcor in one path while making him the god in other. They can choose between becoming Yamato's bff\dragon and casually shrugging off his death. They can be the shining strong willed heroes with defined ideals anywhere between blindly optimistic and world of cardboard. They can also become gigantic hypocrites with no semblence of consistency. The so called REAL game personality is nothing more than what that particular player prefers to see him as. There's no actual CHARACTER here and the closest we'll ever get is whatever the Break Record extra route's foregone conclusion will IMPLY the most. So help me god next time someone compares Hibiki and the "canon" protagonist I'll go strong breaker. I don't dislike the options game gives me but they're just that. Options. And for that matter, what's to say his behavior would've been all that different from the popular one in a saner, well written game verse where Yamato had some tact, sense and affability.