One Piece - Chapter 744 [manga]

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't really see the point in debating power levels when there's hardly anything indicating the difference of strength between top tier characters of this manga. They aren't simply ranked proper by some generic power level formula, anyone can win in the right situation. The 4 Emperors, the Admirals, the Shichibukai, Dragon, right-hand-men of tops (Rayleigh, Marco, Sabo, etc) all have a chance in defeating one another, IMO.

I do feel there's a wall between the top tiers and the rest, but within the cast of these characters, it doesn't feel like there's an impregnable wall between.

I am in total agreement with you on this.

Oda doesn't use a set formula. He decides the victors of the fights based on how he wants to progress the story for most part.

It is really hard to rationalize power levels in one piece. They are all over the place and a lot of times doesn't make one bit of sense.

I generally use the Crocodile example ( Vs luffy and at marineford) but there are many more examples of this.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

World Government
If the WG is that powerful then why can't they get rid of the Yonkous? Why do they need Shichibukai system to keep the balance? Kinda ironic that you need pirates to maintain order.

Because the WG would spread their resources too thin in trying to get rid of ALL the emperors. It would be a suicidal course of action. The COMBINED might of the Yonkous is too much for the WG. Hypothetically, if they were to all team up and put aside their differences, the WG would get annihilated. But the chances of that happening are slim to none since the Yonkous are all enemies to one another. The balance of power is Marines+Shichibukai = Yonkou in disunity. But it's clear that this equation doesn't pertain to just fighting strength; it's more about stability and order in the world. We saw at the marineford war that Whitebeard+crew+43 NW allied captains+Impel Down escapees wasn't enough to out-muscle the marines. Now, it's true that the marines had territorial advantage and a hostage, but still. And that's not even considering that the shichibukai were half-assing their efforts. Like I said, there isn't a SINGLE entity/organization more powerful than the WG.

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't really see the point in debating power levels when there's hardly anything indicating the difference of strength between top tier characters of this manga. They aren't simply ranked proper by some generic power level formula, anyone can win in the right situation. The 4 Emperors, the Admirals, the Shichibukai, Dragon, right-hand-men of tops (Rayleigh, Marco, Sabo, etc) all have a chance in defeating one another, IMO.

I do feel there's a wall between the top tiers and the rest, but within the cast of these characters, it doesn't feel like there's an impregnable wall between.

Tiers are based on considering all factors and match-ups. OVERALL, certain characters are flat-out better than others. Right now, we use feats, hype, and portrayal, from the manga to gauge characters' strength. And as eccentric as One Piece is, it's still a shounen, which means it DOES follow certain laws/rules concerning tiers to an extent.

[noktown]

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't really see the point in debating power levels when there's hardly anything indicating the difference of strength between top tier characters of this manga. They aren't simply ranked proper by some generic power level formula, anyone can win in the right situation. The 4 Emperors, the Admirals, the Shichibukai, Dragon, right-hand-men of tops (Rayleigh, Marco, Sabo, etc) all have a chance in defeating one another, IMO.

I do feel there's a wall between the top tiers and the rest, but within the cast of these characters, it doesn't feel like there's an impregnable wall between.

Agreed,every time a new character appears,people start comparing him to admirals/yonkous.

We don't even know how strong our main characters are,because we haven't seen them fight a real opponent yet.(Well we know How strong Usopp is )

One thing I noticed in the last chapter(was it?),when they showed Zoro looking for Pica,he was completely unharmed,a couple of sweats here and there,but no damage at all,considering that he was fighting in Pica's field,I would say that's also not so bad.

And I don't get why is Burgess considered so strong ?He is in the Yonkou's crew,but before the time-skip,we've seen that when Ace found BB's crew,BB told their crew to back off because they stood no chance against Ace.So after the time skip,he might have gotten stronger,but not as much as we might think.So Sabo overpowering him when they were both not going all out isn't a big deal at all.

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't really see the point in debating power levels when there's hardly anything indicating the difference of strength between top tier characters of this manga. They aren't simply ranked proper by some generic power level formula, anyone can win in the right situation. The 4 Emperors, the Admirals, the Shichibukai, Dragon, right-hand-men of tops (Rayleigh, Marco, Sabo, etc) all have a chance in defeating one another, IMO.

I do feel there's a wall between the top tiers and the rest, but within the cast of these characters, it doesn't feel like there's an impregnable wall between.

Power Debate
I love it. One piece characters are very developed(their uniqueness ranges from their personality all the way to the individual fighting style), there rules to follow(no matter how strong you are you can't ignore them), and there are a lot of different unknown elements(Devil Fruit, Haki, Personality, strength, and many more). To me seeing a good fight is fun and I also like to pick a sides. I usually rate them on their performance and who they beat. With the Shichibukai system, Marine Rank, Pirate levels it give you a good idea were individuals stand. Also the fight between factions (White Beard vs. Marines), one sided fight (Kizaru vs. Straw Hats at saboady), and close matches (akainu vs. akoiji) are fun to talk about. They have detail to them that isn't normally shown in most mangas. Example Ace vs. Akainu was a great fight. It was so one sided. But look at the detail of the fight. Admiral Akainu did not use brute force to take Ace down. He manipulated the Ace from start to finish. Akainu used is logia superiority, Ace's short temper, and his brother against him. Akainu is a powerful character, good attention to detail, manipulator, and very smart when it comes to battle tactics. Now look at the other side(Ace). He gets angry really fast, he just like his father in every way (If someone insults the people he loves he stands up to them, never backs down). He lets his emotions cloud his judgment. He has a lot of raw potential and he is a very loving character despite his tough guy act. Ace was a boy searching for a answer to his ultimate question. Should he have been born?

Luffy vs. Enel, Croc Vs. Luffy, Smoker Vs. Law( I am very disappointed in you smoker), Rayleigh Vs. Kizaru, Jozu vs. Akoiji, Zoro vs. Mihawk, Marco vs. Kizaru, White Beard vs. Admirals, Ace vs. Smoker, Zoro vs. Monet, Law vs. Vergo, and the list goes on. The characters in these fights are not treated like they are dumb or just put there has part of the story. They are treated like human being and they act like it. Whats even better is they get to use what they have. Most mangas will give their characters moves and power just for show. They really don't have substance, purpose, or depth in any of their actions. Its just there to fill in a page and we all know there is nothing to talk about there. Right now One piece manga has a lot going for it that most mangas don't. Hopefully Oda will maintain it and never let the standards sink.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Because the WG would spread their resources too thin in trying to get rid of ALL the emperors. It would be a suicidal course of action. The COMBINED might of the Yonkous is too much for the WG. Hypothetically, if they were to all team up and put aside their differences, the WG would get annihilated. But the chances of that happening are slim to none since the Yonkous are all enemies to one another. The balance of power is Marines+Shichibukai = Yonkou in disunity. But it's clear that this equation doesn't pertain to just fighting strength; it's more about stability and order in the world. We saw at the marineford war that Whitebeard+crew+43 NW allied captains+Impel Down escapees wasn't enough to out-muscle the marines. Now, it's true that the marines had territorial advantage and a hostage, but still. And that's not even considering that the shichibukai were half-assing their efforts. Like I said, there isn't a SINGLE entity/organization more powerful than the WG.

"You didn't do it because you couldn't or you didn't want to?"
Why didn't the world government take Shanks down at Marineford if it it was just that powerful? The Admirals were still kicking and they just scored a huge victory against White Beard. You do know without Ace has a hostage White Beard could easily have destroyed the Marineford HQ? Ace was the son of Gold Rodgers and the WG have been trying to end the blood line for decades. Chapter 551 page 7 Sengoku said to ace "You are the only one who believes that. We were unable to lay a finger on you from that moment forth. You were being protected by White Beard himself!!!" White Beard is just one Yonkou right? Why didn't they just go in with force and take ace from white beard. The Marines are just going after one Yonkou not all four. So by your logic it should work right? Amazing when a Yonkou puts his or her protection on something and the WG can't seem do anything about it.

[noktown]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Power Debate

"You didn't do it because you couldn't or you didn't want to?"
Why didn't the world government take Shanks down at Marineford if it it was just that powerful? The Admirals were still kicking and they just scored a huge victory against White Beard. You do know without Ace has a hostage White Beard could easily have destroyed the Marineford HQ? Ace was the son of Gold Rodgers and the WG have been trying to end the blood line for decades. Chapter 551 page 7 Sengoku said to ace "You are the only one who believes that. We were unable to lay a finger on you from that moment forth. You were being protected by White Beard himself!!!" White Beard is just one Yonkou right? Why didn't they just go in with force and take ace from white beard. The Marines are just going after one Yonkou not all four. So by your logic it should work right? Amazing when a Yonkou puts his or her protection on something and the WG can't seem do anything about it.

World Government does not only consist of one entity which are the Marines,there are many organisations,including Shichibukai and Cipher Pole,if it was so easy to take down World Government,someone as strong and powerful as Dragon could have probably done that by now.

Even if Marineford fell and all the admirals were defeated it would still not be the end of WG,far from it.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

"You didn't do it because you couldn't or you didn't want to?"
Why didn't the world government take Shanks down at Marineford if it it was just that powerful? The Admirals were still kicking and they just scored a huge victory against White Beard. You do know without Ace has a hostage White Beard could easily have destroyed the Marineford HQ? White Beard is just one Yonkou right? Why didn't they just go in with force and take ace from white beard. The Marines are just going after one Yonkou not all four. So by your logic it should work right? Amazing when a Yonkou puts his or her protection on something and the WG can't seem do anything about it.

Because they would risk taking even more casualties/possible fatalities? Shanks' intervention was unforeseen. Better to play it safe than sustain even more losses. Shanks' stopping the war isn't indicative of his forces being superior to the WG's (because in actual fact they're not). Do you really think the admirals, Garp, and Sengoku, would just allow Whitebeard to destroy Marineford? It's not quite that simple, I'm afraid.

Why would the WG send out all their forces into the NW where the Yonkou reign supreme and leave themselves completely vulnerable? The news spreads quickly, and it's very likely the other emperors would take advantage of this opportunity and strike the weakened/vulnerable sides. Does that sound smart to you?

Again, to reiterate my point, there isn't a single entity/organization more powerful than the WG. This is a fact.

[Whitemoon648]

Imo World government can't go after the Yonkous.

And it is because of the balance of powers. If they went after whitebeard, they could win but at huge loss. They wanted to get rid of Gold roger's blood line but they knew Whitebeard wouldn't just let that happen.
They would have avoided that fight if they had a choice.

They lose a lot of man power and the other 3 yonkous will gain power and thus huge chaos in the seas. The people who will suffer are regular people that can't do anything against pirates without the help of marines.

Marines are the good people here. Not the pirates. Pirates are evil for most part.

Yes we have a few good pirates here and there ( Whitebeard, Shanks, luffy, ...) but most pirates are evil.

Right after Marines had their fights the whole world went into chaos. We were shown how pirates were attacking innocent people in many instances and how the world government didn't have the power to do much for a long while.

Shanks is a yonkou, but a benign Yonkou. He is the type that protects people than harm or pillage them. But what about Blackbeard or big mom? If no candy for Big mom= island is gone.

It's not that they couldn't beat Shanks ( they might have ) but then they would lose so much power and the world would just get ruled by these evil pirates.

World government is strong, much stronger than any Yonkou. But their power is not limitless. They can't go waging wards against Yonkous.

Because of the whole system, the world is kinda in stalemate. Basically not the best case scenario but not really the worse either.

No yonkou will recklessly wage war against World government ( or go beyond their limits in trying to expand) and world government won't either.

There was just too much loss and not much gain from going against Shanks. Sengoku knows Shanks is a benign Yonkou. He won't risk losing a huge part of Marine's forces to defeat some one that isn't really hurting any one.

If that Yonkou happened to be big Mom, that could have been another story.

----

Lastly Shanks is also a pirate who imo wants to keep the balance ( for the sake of people maybe). The gold roger pirates reached the decision that wouldn't alter the faith of the world. In some way maybe they decided it wasn't worth it. <--- Thus Rayleigh's talk with luffy about one piece.

Shanks probably agrees with their sentiment. For all we know Kaido wanted to help whitebeard and not go after him. Maybe shanks didn't want to Yonkou face against WG to save the balance.

His talk with whitebeard back this up as well.

So yes, WG is strong. They can probably defeat even two Yonkou at the time, but they can't go against all four. They want to reserve their force power and not incur too much loss so that they can keep this delicate balance against the Yonkous.

----

Even Dragon understands this. I think Dragon is trying to topple world government without making Yonkou's gain power or influence. And this could be why he hasn't been that aggressive. Dragon wants a world that benefits the people. He doesn't want to change one evil with a possible bigger evil ( the pirates).

He isn't trying to destroy the WG per se, but rather the Corruption that WG has. Dragon wants order as well. I wouldn't be surprised that few marines defect to Dragon's side. There is speculations that maybe Aokoji has done that.

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Because they would risk taking even more casualties/possible fatalities? Shanks' intervention was unforeseen. Better to play it safe than sustain even more losses. Shanks' stopping the war isn't indicative of his forces being superior to the WG's (because in actual fact they're not). Do you really think the admirals, Garp, and Sengoku, would just allow Whitebeard to destroy Marineford? It's not quite that simple, I'm afraid.

Why would the WG send out all their forces into the NW where the Yonkou reign supreme and leave themselves completely vulnerable? The news spreads quickly, and it's very likely the other emperors would take advantage of this opportunity and strike the weakened/vulnerable sides. Does that sound smart to you?

Again, to reiterate my point, there isn't a single entity/organization more powerful than the WG. This is a fact.

Originally Posted by noktown

World Government does not only consist of one entity which are the Marines,there are many organisations,including Shichibukai and Cipher Pole,if it was so easy to take down World Government,someone as strong and powerful as Dragon could have probably done that by now.

Even if Marineford fell and all the admirals were defeated it would still not be the end of WG,far from it.

MarineFord War was a rescue mission
In my opinion if the WG were to face off with White Beard without the situation that happened on Marine Ford, they would have lost. The reason Ace was at the gallows was to suppress the full might of the quake fruit and keep White Beard in one place. They turned the Marineford war into a rescue operation forcing White Beard to come to them.

Now lets take the situation and turn it around and assume that there was no hostage situation. You know what I would do if I were White beard? I would coat the ship and perform hit and run on all islands that held Marine assets only(not Ciphor pol, not the Shichibukai, and not civilians). There would be nothing the Marines could do because you can't hit a target you can't see. I would never have to surface because all I would have to do is create a title wave from under water and sink Islands and destroy marine ships in the ocean until you were weak and vulnerable. The next question would be how many of the Shichibukai would turn on you when they realize you are weak and can't enforce your justice? Cipher pol would be completely useless because all they are is an intelligence agency. How fast do you think other Yonkous would take advantage of you vulnerable situation? You think Dragon would make his move? How many countries would allow Marine assets in their country? How quickly do you think things would fall apart once the muscle(Marines) is destroyed. The marines are the glue that holds the WG together. It is what allows the WG to enforce their views, the Marines are what keeps the Shichibukai system together and in line, they are the world police.

In my opinion very few people truly understand the significance of why Marines decided to go to war with White Beard when they had Ace at the gallows. White Beard was a powerhouse and that is why the WG did not go after Ace when White Beard placed his protection on him. How do you contain a powerhouse when you have no leverage? At Marine Ford War Ace was the leverage. The only reason White Beard did not sink that Island was because he was trying to save his son(Ace). You guys can create any scenario you want but the WG respected White Beards power even when they had the advantage.

"We may have the greater force, but we must not take this opponent lightly!!! It may well be us who meet are end today... for that man...Has the power to destroy the very world!!!" Chapter 552 pages 14 and 15 Fleet Admiral Sengoku

[bonsobon]

Quite the discussion we have going on here at the moment. Its always interesting to read debates about power levels and whatnot in One Piece, but since that's not what I really want to talk about my post will probably be largely (though hopefully not) ignored for the most part. Still I'll contribute what I can to the discussion on the chapter.

Anyway according to the translation I read, Diamante said the prize was not meant to be given away. If correct it confirms my suspicions about Doflamingo using the tournament simply as a trap to lure all these powerful fighters to Dressrosa and turn them into toys. I never understood why he of all people would have willingly given such power away seemingly for free (yes Ace's fruit is a big power, despite it not being top-top tier), considering his involvement in SMILE creation and production (and the possibility of his lieutenants not winning the whole thing due to the calibre of the people participating).

Another thing I thought of are the SMILES themselves. Are they what's being referred to when Sabo talked about weapons smuggling? Also what if the revolutionaries want the SMILES for themselves? After all if Kaidou believes they would be a great help to his forces, then there's no reason for Dragon not to think the same.

[Veviticus]

Originally Posted by bonsobon

Anyway according to the translation I read, Diamante said the prize was not meant to be given away. If correct it confirms my suspicions about Doflamingo using the tournament simply as a trap to lure all these powerful fighters to Dressrosa and turn them into toys. I never understood why he of all people would have willingly given such power away seemingly for free (yes Ace's fruit is a big power, despite it not being top-top tier), considering his involvement in SMILE creation and production (and the possibility of his lieutenants not winning the whole thing due to the calibre of the people participating).

Another thing I thought of are the SMILES themselves. Are they what's being referred to when Sabo talked about weapons smuggling? Also what if the revolutionaries want the SMILES for themselves? After all if Kaidou believes they would be a great help to his forces, then there's no reason for Dragon not to think the same.

I think it's more about luring luffy into a trap since he was allied with law at the time. The moment the straw hats landed on the island, doflamingo had a plan to take them out. I didn't think he would give away the fruit as a prize either. I've even thought the box containing the fruit was empty. Glad I was wrong though. It's good to have sabo take the fruit for himself.

I would assume the weapons are referring to the swords and guns type. The SMILEs are manufactured secretly, so not many countries should know about them. At this point, it's only been mentioned that kaido has the army of devil fruit users.

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by bonsobon

Quite the discussion we have going on here at the moment. Its always interesting to read debates about power levels and whatnot in One Piece, but since that's not what I really want to talk about my post will probably be largely (though hopefully not) ignored for the most part. Still I'll contribute what I can to the discussion on the chapter.



Another thing I thought of are the SMILES themselves. Are they what's being referred to when Sabo talked about weapons smuggling? Also what if the revolutionaries want the SMILES for themselves? After all if Kaidou believes they would be a great help to his forces, then there's no reason for Dragon not to think the same.

You are right . We went kind of topic. Back to chapter discussion.

As for weapon smuggling, i think it is referring to that weapon girl. I think somewhere it was mentioned by Buffalo that what a waste it would be for her weapons to stay at punk hazard , ... .

That's what i think.

And you are imo right in thinking Dragon might want them too. I had/have a theory that Sabo might actually be Kaido working under dragon and is getting all those fruits.

Even If sabo might or might not be Kaido ( i am fine with it either way), it would still make sense to me as well that Dragon would want those fruits as well.

A lot of Revolutionaries are wearing animal outfit, so maybe that is Oda foreshadowing it?

[Veviticus]

Sabo saying the weapons are actually being manufactured somewhere else is proof enough that it isn't the SMILEs he is talking about.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

Now lets take the situation and turn it around and assume that there was no hostage situation. You know what I would do if I were White beard? I would coat the ship and perform hit and run on all islands that held Marine assets only(not Ciphor pol, not the Shichibukai, and not civilians). There would be nothing the Marines could do because you can't hit a target you can't see. I would never have to surface because all I would have to do is create a title wave from under water and sink Islands and destroy marine ships in the ocean until you were weak and vulnerable.

Good strategy. However, if Whitebeard could simply do what you say, why was he in a deadlock with the other emperors? Why didn't he just destroy the marines' assets? Just because you're the strongest with the most destructive capabilities doesn't mean you can just go around and do as you please. It's never that simple. But to humour you, as a countermeasure, Aokiji could simply freeze all of the oceans around the marines' assets, effectively stopping Whitebeard's tsunami attempts. Furthermore, collateral damage doesn't amount to so much. Like Sengoku said, bases/structures can be rebuilt any time.

[grey_1960]

Originally Posted by bonsobon

Another thing I thought of are the SMILES themselves. Are they what's being referred to when Sabo talked about weapons smuggling? Also what if the revolutionaries want the SMILES for themselves? After all if Kaidou believes they would be a great help to his forces, then there's no reason for Dragon not to think the same.

Special Deals to the select few?
This is just my opinion, but if everyone had what Kaidou had then his Zoan army wouldn't be special. I think the SMILES is only for Kaidou. Also Law is only hitting assets that are key to making smile like CC (Scientist), the Factory at Dressrosa(were they are growing fruits), and the smile factory at Punk Hazard(were they are producing smile) to destroy the supply in hopes of turning Kaidou against Daflamingo.

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

Good strategy. However, if Whitebeard could simply do what you say, why was he in a deadlock with the other emperors? Why didn't he just destroy the marines' assets? Just because you're the strongest with the most destructive capabilities doesn't mean you can just go around and do as you please. It's never that simple. But to humour you, as a countermeasure, Aokiji could simply freeze all of the oceans around the marines' assets, effectively stopping Whitebeard's tsunami attempts. Furthermore, collateral damage doesn't amount to so much. Like Sengoku said, bases/structures can be rebuilt any time.

Backgrounds
How did marines get Squardo to betray White Beard, how did Akainu so easily manipulate Ace, how did the Marines get there war with White Beard? They understood the person and who they were. Look at White Beard, he is not a tyrant like the world believes? When Rogers was going to tell him what the one piece was he didn't care. Ever since he was a kid he has always wanted a family (Chapter 576 Pages 10 and 12). The question you need to ask is did he want to? You assume that because he had the power and the Yonkou title that he wanted what all pirates want. But in actuality he was a man with a loving heart. In my opinion he could have done whatever he wanted but White Beard was not that kind of guy he was a family man.

Second freezing the ocean wouldn't matter. In fact it would be worse. I would just shatter the Ice then send the title wave. Now instead of just water crushing you, you now have huge junks of ice as well. Try rebuilding in the middle of a tidal wave. Until you stop the source of the problem it will be irrelevant.

You do realize why Fleet Admiral Akainu has Fujitori right? The power over gravity will be very instrumental with dealing with the quake fruit user and its properties.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by grey_1960

You assume that because he had the power and the Yonkou title that he wanted what all pirates want. But in actuality he was a man with a loving heart. In my opinion he could have done whatever he wanted but White Beard was not that kind of guy he was a family man.

Second freezing the ocean wouldn't matter. In fact it would be worse. I would just shatter the Ice then send the title wave. Now instead of just water crushing you, you now have huge junks of ice as well. Try rebuilding in the middle of a tidal wave. Until you stop the source of the problem it will be irrelevant.

I'm not assuming anything. I know Whitebeard's character. But even though he was the strongest, he wasn't unstoppable (as he himself admitted in the war).

Actually, freezing the ocean does matter. You do know how deep down Aokiji froze the water, right? Ask Jozu, he'll tell you. It would take some work to break through the ice. And even if Whitebeard breaks it apart completely, Aokiji can just use Ice Age again, nullifying any more tsunami attempts. Whitebeard didn't try to pull off tsunamis repeatedly because Aokiji would just stop them.

My point still stands about the WG having the most power in its forces.

[grey_1960]

^
The attacks are a hit and run operation. The objective is not confrontation. Aokiji can't be two places at once. I just hit were he isn't then come back to the base when he leaves it. Second has Akoiji ever put up an ice construct that White beard couldn't break? During the Marine ford War White Beard broke everything Akoiji threw at him. Face it the marine would be playing a losing game of Whack a mole. I don't claim White Beard was invincible. I just recognize the power he had and destruction he could do.

[noktown]

I like those imaginary wars,keep going at it.

Now that you mention it,I think Bartolomeo > Whitebeard,no ?

/Sarcasm off.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I'm not assuming anything. I know Whitebeard's character. But even though he was the strongest, he wasn't unstoppable (as he himself admitted in the war).

Actually, freezing the ocean does matter. You do know how deep down Aokiji froze the water, right? Ask Jozu, he'll tell you. It would take some work to break through the ice. And even if Whitebeard breaks it apart completely, Aokiji can just use Ice Age again, nullifying any more tsunami attempts. Whitebeard didn't try to pull off tsunamis repeatedly because Aokiji would just stop them.

My point still stands about the WG having the most power in its forces.

not to get in the argumetn about power level but the guy going on the offensive almost always has the advantage. Even if Aokiji can nullify WB's power he can't be everywhere and Whitebeard can anywhere he wants to. If Aokiji was protecting island A, WB can attack island B and there is nothing Aokiji can do about it. The thing about Ace's capture was that it force WB to attack the Marines on Ground of their choosing with all the preparation that goes along with it.

[noktown]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

not to get in the argumetn about power level but the guy going on the offensive almost always has the advantage. Even if Aokiji can nullify WB's power he can't be everywhere and Whitebeard can anywhere he wants to. If Aokiji was protecting island A, WB can attack island B and there is nothing Aokiji can do about it. The thing about Ace's capture was that it force WB to attack the Marines on Ground of their choosing with all the preparation that goes along with it.

The problem is,only Oda knows what WG is capable off and what not.

So the whole theory argument what Whitebeard could have done or not is kind of funny,because I'm pretty sure with the advanced technology the WG scientists posses they could throw some kind of a One Piece version of an atomic bomb in the area and no one would have survived,including the almighty emperors.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by noktown

The problem is,only Oda knows what WG is capable off and what not.

So the whole theory argument what Whitebeard could have done or not is kind of funny,because I'm pretty sure with the advanced technology the WG scientists posses they could throw some kind of a One Piece version of an atomic bomb in the area and no one would have survived,including the almighty emperors.

and i will bet the Emperors have a thier one piece ver of a Nuke Jammer.