(L+CR) Cross Ange

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Ryuga

He said to Tusk "I'm going to look for my wife" after he heard the song. I mean, you can't get anymore clear than that lol. He no longer needed to protect Aura either.

That then does not answer the question why he need to fly back to his base, throw his knight out to death, despite, well, later he will teleport to take Ange away anyway.

Can't you see that the director was just pulling the event out of his ass, despite it make no sense? Embryo set up a team to protect something that he don't need to protect, leave a battle that he don't need to leave, and sacrifice all his pawns when he do not need to sacrifice them.

Originally Posted by Ryuga

But yeah, it's probably a case of plot contrivance. Here's some examples: why don't characters just attack while the other char's powering up instead of standing around? Why do villains not kill characters immediately instead of capturing and/or taunting them? Similar to the point you're making, why do they save their best attacks until last? Let's apply this to Cross Ange. Why doesn't Embryo just teleport into people's mechs and kill them? Why didn't he teleport behind Tusk and shoot him in the head during their duel? Why did he bother to use Momoka as a puppet to fight him? Why did Salia not kill Ange when she crashed into the wall? Why this? Why that? It's obvious why. It allowed for more events (Tusk fighting Embryo and all sorts of other things) to happen during this episode. And he ended up teleporting Ange anyway! There are so many plot contrivances in fiction just to make events happen. Personally, it only matters to me when it intrudes on the story, and for me, it doesn't.

There is plot contrivance and there are inconsistencies. You can't assimilate both into the same one.

This is an equivalent of a bad guy to jump in to attack everyone during their power up screen , then suddenly don't do it on main character/ heroine. Or use his ultimate skill on everything else, but don't use when his position was in dire. Or kill everyone upon captured, but not the guy who hold his weakness for no reason. And vice versa.

Originally Posted by Ryuga

As for Embryo, let's face it, he was always an arsehole and it was hinted he was a womaniser to begin with. How else would Jill have personal history with him/know so much about him and why else would Embryo say she looked pretty when she was angry and know her real name? Why else would he harp on about how beautiful Ange was during ep 13? He was always going to destroy the world way back in ep 12 because he felt the current World of Mana was a failure. It's always been clear he never really cared that much about the other pilots and he was just using them back in ep 19. It's even spelled out word for word by Jill herself in this very episode. It's known he's a liar and he's only got eyes for Ange. He fancies her, she can defy him and he wants the chase, especially considering he's a very bored man. The guy's arrogant and thinks he can control everyone. Is Embryo a ridiculous villain? Yup. Is he intentionally a rip-off of existing villains? Yup. This entire show's referencing so much things deliberately and blowing them up the point of absurdity.

How does that even make sense?

He's an womaniser, a pervert obsessed with woman. Who spent a great deal of his personal time to court those he interested at. So that explain all of his antic toward Ange. He also going so far to destroy this world and create one that full of these types of women he like.

But at the same time, he don't care about his woman, and only use them, even send them out to die despite no need to. Heck his mansion has no other women, other than those he could use, and since the beginning he spent more time with a book than anything else. The current world was specifically architected by him, and there apparently nothing wrong with it regarding the role of women in society

See how there are two opposite Embryo here alone? Maybe one of them can teleport, and another one can't too. Talk about inconsistency

[DuelGundam2099]

the same anime where Angelise was raped

This didn't happen.

[Ryuga]

This is the last time I'll discuss this because I don't wanna mess up the thread.

Embryo needed to protect Aura up to a certain point. He'd channeled enough of her energy during the battle to the point where the process couldn't be stopped even when they took Aura away. He obviously achieved that since he mentioned the process could be left to its own devices without Aura anymore. He was facing Tusk, the DRAGONs and the Aurora, so he teleported the other pilots into them to fight them off and use them as bait. Then he said he was going to find his bride-to-be/wife. So, it's pretty obvious he went to the base to look for Ange, since that's where she was trying to head to last time before Salia intercepted her in the previous ep.

And I've already said everything I've had to say about the teleporting business. He didn't do it immediately. He didn't teleport away from Tusk and co. either. Obviously the creators wanted certain events to happen (like the fight with Tusk and the conversation with Jill and the reveal about his main body to the audience). He did it anyway, Ange is gone, his plan's succeeding. Rather than him teleporting Ange immediately, you got extra stuff on top and he still teleported her anyway. Honestly, what is there to complain about lol?

Just because Embryo spent time courting them and manipulating them for various uses (like piloting for one), doesn't mean they aren't disposable, especially when he was approaching end game. His whole plan is to use "strong, intelligent women" to create a better race. He said Ange was the strongest, most intelligent and beautiful of them all. He's lying to keep Salia and co. sweet, but they're clearly not that important. Ange's the one he's clearly obsessed with and she's the one who takes top priority. Otherwise why did he treat Ersha like shit if he cared about her so much? Why would he lie to Salia about her being the most important person to him while singing Ange's praises and wanting to take her as his wife and have her be the "goddess" of his new world? Is it really a contradiction that he's a prick that would chuck the other pilots away just to help him buy enough time to find Ange, considering everything he's done? He's willing to enslave people and destroy worlds just because he's unsatisfied with something that's his own fault. Is it really surprising that he also uses women and tosses them aside like everything else? Jill said it back in ep 12 and in this ep; he uses people as playthings. And just because he's a womaniser and likes playing games, doesn't mean he has any real regard for women as a whole. Quite the opposite. He's obsessed with Ange, not the others or women in general. He's lost in books because he's bored with the world he's created but now he's got his sights on Ange who's a challenge. The guy's clearly got a god complex and is arrogant as all get out. Underneath all his nonsense about humanity and whatnot, it's all self-serving.

[risingstar3110]

Since it was your last post, i will wrap up our discussion then.

Originally Posted by Ryuga

And I've already said everything I've had to say about the teleporting business. He didn't do it immediately. He didn't teleport away from Tusk and co. either. Obviously the creators wanted certain events to happen (like the fight with Tusk and the conversation with Jill and the reveal about his main body to the audience). He did it anyway, Ange is gone, his plan's succeeding. Rather than him teleporting Ange immediately, you got extra stuff on top and he still teleported her anyway. Honestly, what is there to complain about lol?

It all boiled down to the bold above. 1.5 episode of filler, where the event was already dictated from the start of the episode. And all of the fighting, and plot, and fly here and there does not matter. Maybe you could take Chris re-consolidating with Hilda and Rosalie out as proper development. And then Sala rescuing Aura. But the rest absolutely does not contribute into the flow of the event in anyway. I will just assume that you like to watch fillers, and there is a reason why showed like Naruto and Bleach is littered with them and was still enjoyed by many. But my opinion on it is obvious: it does not make sense, show really bad writing. manipulative, and apparently just there for viewership. Does not mean i won't approve your right to enjoy them through.


However on Embryo. I wonder why you still try to defend the indefensible. Embryo character is stupidly design, simple as that. He's mixed between three villain stereotype that all have contradicted motives

1. He firstly tried to create a perfect world. And it didn't work out, so he tried to capture the Norma fighters to fend off the Dragon, while tried to recreate it. Ok ruthless perfectionist leader who will do everything to match his ideal. Good
2. But then apparently that was not evil enough, so let add in the fact that he is a pervert rapist, who manipulate women to fight for him. Still make sense so far..... And he want to modify the new world to fill with women like that...? What? Since when the freaking mean, now became a freaking goal? How the heck this will prevent this imeprfect world to repeat itself?
3. OK, maybe he had something in his brilliant mind that a strong women will make ideal world. Sure. Now he just need to add Ange to collection and create a world fill with strong women like the harem he just created. As long as he can bring that final piece of puzzle to the new worl.... he freaking abandoned all of them to die here and chase after Ange instead? Once again, Ange supposed to be a mean to partly create his perfect world, now she became his goal again?

See? This's why i said this Embryo is such a badly designed character. Already twice he flip flopped his mean into becoming his goal. This is an equivalent of a indecisive teenager, who tried to be friend with his crush's sister to get close to her, but fall for the sister instead. Then tried to consult with his childhood friend about which one to choose, before fall for the childhood friend.

[Arya]

Late to the party here, but damn what a good episode we had here! I wholly agree with everyone about Tusk bragging about him and Ange 3 days and 3 nights was gold And he has to use his trump card yet, showed in its full glory in the PV.

Also apparently Hilda is in the same position Elektra was to Tusk's parents. Why bother I wonder, I mean, really,what's the point?
Oh, and I really liked also the Chris/Rosalie reunion!

[TheRealWinston]

Originally Posted by Arya

Late to the party here, but damn what a good episode we had here! I wholly agree with everyone about Tusk bragging about him and Ange 3 days and 3 nights was gold And he has to use his trump card yet, showed in its full glory in the PV.

That Scene was worth to watch that crap.

Also apparently Hilda is in the same position Elektra was to Tusk's parents. Why bother I wonder, I mean, really,what's the point?

More or less, technically, Alektra had a cruch on Istvan, not Vanessa (or, how Tusk's mother was called), but Hilda has a crush on Ange. And Hilda's love isn't that unfullfilled like Alektra's/Jill's one, more or less (see Episode 23). And yeah, Ange don't have any problems with Hilda, and Hilda also have nothing against Tusk. I smell Ange X Tusk X Hilda ending. And maybe Salamandinay and Momoka get also their piece of the cake. (And we should not forget Misty.)

By the way, isn't really the case anymore, but...

Spoiler for nsfw content:

... am I the only one, who thinks, that the shower scene, were Hilda assaulted Ange, was censored?

[Dauerlutscher]

Originally Posted by TheRealWinston

That Scene was worth to watch that crap.



More or less, technically, Alektra had a cruch on Istvan, not Vanessa (or, how Tusk's mother was called), but Hilda has a crush on Ange. And Hilda's love isn't that unfullfilled like Alektra's/Jill's one, more or less (see Episode 23). And yeah, Ange don't have any problems with Hilda, and Hilda also have nothing against Tusk. I smell Ange X Tusk X Hilda ending. And maybe Salamandinay and Momoka get also their piece of the cake. (And we should not forget Misty.)

By the way, isn't really the case anymore, but...

Spoiler for nsfw content:

... am I the only one, who thinks, that the shower scene, were Hilda assaulted Ange, was censored?

Jup, its so obvious...

[HandofFate]

Salamandinay is a much better singer than Ange

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

Salamandinay is a much better singer than Ange

It's Hocchan, bro. She is better at everything against everyone

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

It's Hocchan, bro. She is better at everything against everyone

Also Salamandinay is very beautiful.
is a rare case Among the female characters of Cross Ange.
Has a personality would be, is not vulgar, and refused to lust.

[KleenexGhost]

Vol. 5 Cover



Got what I wanted.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Hidetoshi Nakata

Also Salamandinay is very beautiful.
is a rare case Among the female characters of Cross Ange.
Has a personality would be, is not vulgar, and refused to lust.

Not to mention this



Her own version of Fus Ro Dah

[KleenexGhost]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Not to mention this



Her equivalent of Fus Ro Dah

I like to think that she's screaming for more meat.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by KleenexGhost

I like to think that she's screaming for more meat.

It's intriguing how can that break mind control through.

Like: "More meats!!", "Hmm... meats, sure...(but what am I doing here)"

[scififan]

Originally Posted by Hidetoshi Nakata

Also Salamandinay is very beautiful.
is a rare case Among the female characters of Cross Ange.
Has a personality would be, is not vulgar, and refused to lust.

Not really.
She is older version of Ange(before Ange was broken).
Ange was betrayed by her beloved people, violated by Jill, received Eleanor's Spartan love, To LOVE-Ru stunt from Tusk, 50 Shades from Embroyo, etc. The refused to lust part only increased Embroyo's interest. Embroyo wants to show how far he can go before he breaks Ane. If Salamandine goes through same trial as Ange, she is not better off.

I guess Salamdrine is the stereotype of Japanese pricess. She hasn't contributed much to the development of the plot. If the seaon ends in one or two more episdoes, she would be a redundant side character.

Ange plays more important role. We see her mental development. She first appeared as a silver spoon brat who has strong prejudice toward Norma. She saw the ultimate solution was to elminate all Norma in the world. When Ange was betrayed by her people, only Momoka and Misty Rosenblum still believe in her. Now, Ange shares other's dream. When Tusk proposed the idea of Angel Cafe(and pulled off the death flag), Ange makes this idea as her living goal.

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by scififan

Not really.
She is older version of Ange(before Ange was broken).
Ange was betrayed by her beloved people, violated by Jill, received Eleanor's Spartan love, To LOVE-Ru stunt from Tusk, 50 Shades from Embroyo, etc. The refused to lust part only increased Embroyo's interest. Embroyo wants to show how far he can go before he breaks Ane. If Salamandine goes through same trial as Ange, she is not better off.

I guess Salamdrine is the stereotype of Japanese pricess. She hasn't contributed much to the development of the plot. If the seaon ends in one or two more episdoes, she would be a redundant side character.

Ange plays more important role. We see her mental development. She first appeared as a silver spoon brat who has strong prejudice toward Norma. She saw the ultimate solution was to elminate all Norma in the world. When Ange was betrayed by her people, only Momoka and Misty Rosenblum still believe in her. Now, Ange shares other's dream. When Tusk proposed the idea of Angel Cafe(and pulled off the death flag), Ange makes this idea as her living goal.

I only quoted as a rare case.
But I never said could not be other cases.
Ange, Momoka, Vivian, are also rare cases.
I was referring to other normas, which look like clones of Flay Allster, how Hilda, Ersha, Chris, Jill..... Driven by lust, vulgar, use others for their own benefit, who think only of themselves, and do not care about the feelings of others.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Hidetoshi Nakata

I only quoted as a rare case.
But I never said could not be other cases.
Ange, Momoka, Vivian, are also rare cases.
I was referring to other normas, which look like clones of Flay Allster, how Hilda, Ersha, Chris, Jill..... Driven by lust, vulgar, use others for their own benefit, who think only of themselves, and do not care about the feelings of others.

Yeah, and we can't say if this and that character is in the same position, she will behave the same. I means background and past experiences create a character. If Salmandinary is set in Ange shoe, she will become a completely different character

But one thing we can be sure about is: Ange will not become someone like Sala if she still sit on her throne. She was too ignorant a figure head, who content with her life and just take in whatever being taught. Sala was opposite, who more willingly to go deep into the past to study from the ancient technology and culture, and always jump on the front life to lead the DRAGON race. Their difference is also clear on how open-minded the two were on treating Norma. One was going out of the way to try bridge the difference with her nemesis, another see them as low life beast that need to be looked down and eradicated

[Arya]

Originally Posted by TheRealWinston

More or less, technically, Alektra had a cruch on Istvan, not Vanessa (or, how Tusk's mother was called), but Hilda has a crush on Ange. And Hilda's love isn't that unfullfilled like Alektra's/Jill's one, more or less (see Episode 23). And yeah, Ange don't have any problems with Hilda, and Hilda also have nothing against Tusk. I smell Ange X Tusk X Hilda ending. And maybe Salamandinay and Momoka get also their piece of the cake. (And we should not forget Misty.)

Didn't embryo called it taboo love or something along this line? I implied that in the end she had a crush on Tusk's mother, despite the picture we saw of his father, of which we saw only a part of it. But I may be wrong.
About the Ange X Tusk X Hilda I'm not sure, I can't see Ange agreeing on that, she is pretty jealous of Tusk. But yeah, it could still happen, if everyone survive. Damn Tusk

[Hidetoshi Nakata]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Yeah, and we can't say if this and that character is in the same position, she will behave the same. I means background and past experiences create a character. If Salmandinary is set in Ange shoe, she will become a completely different character

But one thing we can be sure about is: Ange will not become someone like Sala if she still sit on her throne. She was too ignorant a figure head, who content with her life and just take in whatever being taught. Sala was opposite, who more willingly to go deep into the past to study from the ancient technology and culture, and always jump on the front life to lead the DRAGON race. Their difference is also clear on how open-minded the two were on treating Norma. One was going out of the way to try bridge the difference with her nemesis, another see them as low life beast that need to be looked down and eradicated

This because it shows more maturity and understanding on the subject, it acts more rationally, Ange is more by instinct, acting before thinking.

[Vaans]

I'm surprise Sylvia can actually walk all along.