US Elections 2016 Part II: The Debates & General Election

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher

So the racist, sexist, homophob, populist and demagog without any reasonable plan for the future won this election. It's very telling.
See you guys in 4 years when you complain that this lunatic made your country a worse place to live in.

As opposed to the authoritarian, feminist, and possibly even traitorous demagogue that lost? The one who had pretty much every type of crazy backing her up, solely because "she's a woman"? I'm sorry, but if this election proved anything, it would be that the US is not ready for a female President yet, especially with an unlikable candidate as Hillary. Get rid of the people who were actively out to poison this election, give the SJWs a big 'fuck you' and let people decide for themselves who they want, instead of forcing your will onto others.

Anyway, cry harder.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/rPEZaXyx6NA

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[FlareKnight]

Well this is just downright a scary result for the world. People so desperate to attack the status quo that they probably screwed their country over worse than any election in American history. The history books are going to love this one.

Going to be a long four years for just North America in general.

Well America made their call. A horrible choice between two horrible options, but they still managed to pick the greater of two evils. My condolences to everyone living down there that didn't vote this crazy result.

[The Green One]

Well screw you America. Screw you. You wanted this, so when the inevitable happens and this falls apart remember this.

You asked for this hot mess. This is all on you. I haven't been this disgusted in people in a long time.

[MeoTwister5]

I'm actually just going to sit back and laugh if (when?) Trump actually does exactly none of the things he claims he will do to make America great again, and in the same vein does exactly none of the horrifying things the fearmongers claim he will also do.

Like I said before, I honest to god do not think he will make the alleged sweeping changes attributed to him, and I also honest to god don't think this is the end of America as we know it. To me it's all just one big showman shitshow for the votes. If in the next week America doesn't go down in flames to the proverbial plagues of Egypt at the same time he backs down on his campaign promises I won't bat an eyelash.

Status quo ftw.

[yulinard]

Good job America I think you can hold your self hating part of you for a while again.

[Sheba]

I am bummed for my cousins who have NEVER subscribed to the SJW and identity politics nonsenses and are feeling that they are punished for this bullshit. Otoh, I am going to have fun watching the leftist media having a meltdown and a taste of what Golem their hubris have helped to create.

[Evil Rick]

So, it begins

YouTube

https://youtu.be/JXQgXBrbrcA

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I remember 8 years ago when Obama won and during his lost Speech John McCain actually silenced a man who booed Obama

Things are changing for the worst and it's happening fast, the wolrd economy is already entering a crisis not seen since the attacks on 9/11 and this is just by him being elected.

People just voted for a man whose election was considered a joke by the rest of the world since he launched himself, who based his whole campaign in fearmongering and hate on minorities. Story never lies, this same scenario has alredy happened in so many other countries and in none of them ended well. People decided to do a protest vote against Hillary and decided to Put a failed bussines man surrounded by scandals with zero political experience in charge of the United States of America instead.

But I guess America just wasn't having Hillary as president.

I may not be american nor live in the United States, but I'm concerned about this, like it or not, the USA economy affects the whole world and the fact that this guy who failed a steaks bussiness wants to put his hands in the FTA just foreshadows gloom days ahead, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[frivolity]

What a day! A lot of issues to cover.

As I've mentioned in the past, this result is not necessarily ideal for the conservative movement in the long term because the next four years will feature a VERY tough economy regardless of which candidate is in the White House. If things don't work out over the next four years with the Republicans having majority in all three arms of government, then conservatism will be finished after 2020. Losing one of the three houses (preferably not Congress) would not have been too problematic.

Onto Trump. My take on him has been that he does not care about governing - only winning. Getting into the White House is probably nothing more than something for him to scratch off the bucket list after the various achievements (if they can be counted as that!) he's attained over the last 70 years. There were rumours that Trump offered Kasich the most powerful vice-presidency in history, in which Trump would simply be a figurehead while allowing Kasich to run the show behind the scenes. My view is that now that he's won, he will simply let Pence and the Republican Congress run the show, which imo isn't necessarily a bad thing.

This result pretty much ends the last political dynasty in USA. The Bush dynasty ended in the primaries, and the Clinton dynasty ended today. Meanwhile, Bill Maher made a very telling speech a few days ago, in which he admitted that the media "cried wolf" about previous Republican candidates by completely tearing up perfectly good and honourable candidates in McCain and Romney. When you cry wolf about good people, nobody will believe you anymore when the real wolves come in.

In terms of international ramifications, I agree with the earlier posters that Merkel is going to have to shift her position. Her party actually lost the elections in her home state, and the anti-establishment movement has boiled over in the UK and US. Germany will be next unless Merkel moves to the right. Lots of uncertainty in the EU as well, because as mentioned above, Trump simply does not care. There's been rumblings that Putin's next step will be to annex Ukraine next, possibly some time in the next year. If Trump can't be bothered to get the US military involved, then the Baltic states will be quaking in their boots.

On that topic, note that the core foundations of the US differ substantially from Europe. Dennis Prager had an interesting podcast on this issue. The core values of the US are written on US currency: Freedom; In God We Trust; and E pluribus unum (from many, one). With Europe, freedom is replaced with egalite (equality); In God We Trust with secularism; and E pluribus unum with multiculturalism. For example, having freedom means that the process allows you make your own choices and you get to keep most of the fruits of your success while conversely being responsible for your own failures. Egalite, on the other hand, prioritises equality of outcome and not equality of opportunity. Both systems have their trade-offs, and there's no one-size-fits-all solution that fits all countries.

One issue discussed earlier is that of healthcare, namely Obamacare. Let me start with Milton Friedman's insightful summary.

Now, I want to go to your question about Medicare. There are many people who benefited from Medicare, but you’re not looking at the cost side. What has happened to the people who are paying for it? It isn’t — we don’t have a free good. It isn’t coming from nowhere. And are they benefiting from it, in a cost-effective way? Those are the questions. It’s demagoguery, if you’ll pardon me, Michael Harrington, to say the people who have Medicare are freer. Of course, in one dimension. But they themselves had been paying all their life, and have they gotten a good bargain? At the moment, they have. The young man, the young working people who are going into Social Security now, they’re going to get a very raw deal indeed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6Bh-qvn8ts

Obamacare has been bleeding public funds, and in many states it is only being propped up by subsidies funded by taxpayers. Its benefits are simply illusory because the system is just not sustainable in the long term. Sure, lots of sick people may have benefitted from it, but the cost will end up being borne by the next generation. Obamacare misses the target because the long-term solution to the high healthcare costs in the US ultimately lies on the supply-side and not on the demand-side, which the policy targets. Unfortunately, neither candidate has really hit home on this issue.

Aside from that, I don't buy the whole doomsday rhetoric with so many of my facebook friends calling it the end of the world. It's a rainy evening here in Australia, and the sun will still rise tomorrow morning, just as it will also continue to rise tomorrow in America.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

I'm actually just going to sit back and laugh if (when?) Trump actually does exactly none of the things he claims he will do to make America great again, and in the same vein does exactly none of the horrifying things the fearmongers claim he will also do.

Like I said before, I honest to god do not think he will make the alleged sweeping changes attributed to him, and I also honest to god don't think this is the end of America as we know it. To me it's all just one big showman shitshow for the votes. If in the next week America doesn't go down in flames to the proverbial plagues of Egypt at the same time he backs down on his campaign promises I won't bat an eyelash.

Status quo ftw.

Well of course this country won't go down in a week, it's about the long term and what decisions are made going forward. But this "let's eat popcorn and look down on others" mentality going on is likely not gonna be what's best for us atm.

I mean sure, we could go through two terms of Bush and survive relatively, but it's not exactly something you want to go through, nor was this election's result an inevitability or something we absolutely needed Bernie to avoid, much as I like the guy.

[Newhope]

And the Liberals are spiting there dummies out in portland, they really need to grow up.

[sasoras]

Public option, but establishment dems are too cowardly.

[Sixth]

Not an American but today news are indeed interesting to read. Thanks Trump.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Originally Posted by frivolity

As I've mentioned in the past, this result is not necessarily ideal for the conservative movement in the long term because the next four years will feature a VERY tough economy regardless of which candidate is in the White House. If things don't work out over the next four years with the Republicans having majority in all three arms of government, then conservatism will be finished after 2020. Losing one of the three houses (preferably not Congress) would not have been too problematic.

They already screwed up in the last 6 years when they had both the Senate and the House in their grasp. If history is indicative of the future, they will fail, and I hope they will stay down for a long time.

Onto Trump. My take on him has been that he does not care about governing - only winning. Getting into the White House is probably nothing more than something for him to scratch off the bucket list after the various achievements (if they can be counted as that!) he's attained over the last 70 years. There were rumours that Trump offered Kasich the most powerful vice-presidency in history, in which Trump would simply be a figurehead while allowing Kasich to run the show behind the scenes. My view is that now that he's won, he will simply let Pence and the Republican Congress run the show, which imo isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Isn't a president elected to be the leader of a country? Why would it be a good idea to let the vice-president and congress run the show? Taxpayers pay the President so he would actually do a job, not sit on his fat ass while collecting pay cheques. In recent memory, only Dmitry Medvedev served as a figurehead of a president although Western countries tried to make him feel as someone who holds some actual power. When you have a figurehead as your elected leader, it only makes people laugh at your country for not understanding what efforts people pour into making a democracy work beyond elections.

There's been rumblings that Putin's next step will be to annex Ukraine next, possibly some time in the next year. If Trump can't be bothered to get the US military involved, then the Baltic states will be quaking in their boots.

That is going to be problem. And with all the talk about US allies arming themselves with nukes, I would like to see if he would want to carry on with that with the Saudis should he know that some Saudi leaders are actually arming radical groups with whatever they can put their hands on.

Obamacare has been bleeding public funds, and in many states it is only being propped up by subsidies funded by taxpayers. Its benefits are simply illusory because the system is just not sustainable in the long term. Sure, lots of sick people may have benefitted from it, but the cost will end up being borne by the next generation. Obamacare misses the target because the long-term solution to the high healthcare costs in the US ultimately lies on the supply-side and not on the demand-side, which the policy targets. Unfortunately, neither candidate has really hit home on this issue.

Obamacare is not perfect, but it only needed to be gradually modified towards a better form instead of being outright dropped as the GOP is proposing. James Rye was right when he wrote that Americans care too much about how much money they can spend on this of that for more or less superficial goods, and yet will say it's hell to pay something that can actually helps everybody. That selfish mentality is one a big chunk that explains the divide in the country.

If Obamacare gets dropped, then what? It would be all back to square one with those in need suffering from having to pay so much money in insurances to those vultures known as insurance companies.

edit: Has no one expressed the main concern about climate change here? That is one of my biggest concerns because a lot of effort has been put in to sign that agreement, and I can only imagine what kind of permanent damage Trump would do as much as Stephen Harper did when he pulled out of the Kyoto Protocol (the bastard).

[Kakurin]

So with the progressing reporting of the West Coast Clinton has moved ahead in the popular vote. The quirks of the electoral system. Be ahead in the popular vote, but get blown out in the electoral vote.

[Sheba]

To us, French, the US electoral system is a very confusing clusterfuck.

[Eisdrache]

I see a lot of people saying that Bernie would have won this election. Yet none of them had predicted how strong Trump would show up in the end. Sure they were miffed that Hillary got the candidacy but the vast majority of them believed that she'd win in the end nonetheless. Hindsight is 20/20.

The sentiment of white supremacy helping Trump is there because it's true. This does not mean that every white person in America is like that but the support from that group was undeniably huge. It's a worrisome trend. And worse these groups will be back in full force for the next election cycle because Trump's victory makes them believe in their mindset.

Also the mentality of those who voted Trump being either a) 'don't worry it won't be as terrible as you think it will be. Still terrible but not so much. or b) 'Let's make America great again. We don't know how but it will be awesome. or c) 'It will be so fun to watch Trump hack away at all the things that we worked on the last eight years' - tells a long story.

The democrats have a long road ahead of them. They're not the bigotry party that the republicans have become but the implosion at this year's election was partly due to their failure to present both themselves as well as their candidate in a respectable light. Republicans on the other hand will do whatever they want at least for four years until they'll realize that things actually haven't changed for the better. The wake-up will be harsh indeed when the bubble pops.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Gee. I come back here before going to bed to see a bunch of people calling all white people bigots and sexists and monsters.

Because that did you guys so well in the election. Maybe, y'know, stop being racist yourselves for once? Please? Because it's already old.

Pretty much nailed it.

One of the major things that led to Trump being successfully elected was, SURPRISE, radical leftism. The modern media and society are plagued with extremist politically correct messages that are blatantly hateful and disrespectful towards whites and white males. Young whites growing up in modern USA are fed up with this demoralizing garbage that tells them the message that they are bad or sinful simply for not being part of a just minority. Of course at some point there was going to be a backlash, and they just chose Trump as their representative. These kinds of people didn't stop to think if Trump was really going to be beneficial for them, they chose him as an act of fighting back against the outrageous politically correct society that has alienated them over the years. The countless accusations from the extreme left demoralizing all Trump voters as being sexist or racist white supremacists just made it worse.

[Brother Coa]

US Election 2016 Results: Five reasons Donald Trump won.

He ran against the Democrats. He also ran against the powers within his own party.

He beat them all.

Mr Trump built a throne of skulls out of his Republican primary opponents. Some, like Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Chris Christie and Ben Carson, eventually bent knee. The holdouts, like Jeb Bush and Ohio Governor John Kasich, are now on the outside of their party looking in.

Good going BBC, good going... xD

[coded321]

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

edit: Has no one expressed the main concern about climate change here? That is one of my biggest concerns because a lot of effort has been put in to sign that agreement, and I can only imagine what kind of permanent damage Trump would do as much as Stephen Harper did when he pulled out of the Kyoto Protocol (the bastard).

As an environmental studies major, i don't even want to begin to imagine the damage trump and the republicans will do to environmental policy. I can already see decades worth of progress in developing environmental law and protection simply go down the drain within the next 4 years

[Haak]

You know (as a non-American), all throughout the election I entertained the thought that a Trump win would be interesting and amusing, but now that it's actually happened I'm actually a bit frightened...

My faith in humanity just keeps going lower and lower and lower...