High School DxD Light Novel - DX.4 (Volume 23.5)

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Parry999

When was CxC ever effective against maou and dragon king classes? Without longinus smasher.

When Issei in CCQ became Maou-class after he achieved DxD apparently.

[Emperor of D.]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

They both received blessings in the same way from Ophis. Ophis gave them a final push after the both of them had an emotional change of heart. Sacred Gears respond to emotions and feelings after all and both of them had reached that stage to achieve DxD. Yes Ophis may have gave them her blessing to achieve those forms but Issei and Vali mainly did most of the work to get there.

I just don't like the fact that with them achieving DxD, Ishibumi has made Issei's CCQ and Vali's EJOD kind of worthless. Especially CCQ as it seems that Ishibumi has used every opportunity lately to prove that the form is almost useless now despite Issei being Maou-class while in the form.

Issei unlock CxC in volume 10 and it was his strongest form until volume 20. That's 10 volumes that this form had it's moments. Even after unlocking DxD, he mainly used CxC for another 3 volume against Baraqiel, Dulio and Thanatos. CxC has been the most used out of all his forms by far so I don't know why you have a problem with Ishibumi giving that form a rest.

Same goes for Vali in that he had EJOD for 9 volumes and in the tournament he used DxD L for first time against Crom.

[godz]

Originally Posted by Darksider555

At least Chief God to Heavenly Dragon Class. Since he was able to fight on par with Loki who was a God wearing his own version of Scale Mail that was created by Metal Fenrir.

Question: What do you think that Reya Kusaka & Momo Hanakai Counter Balance are? We know about Tomoe & Nimura's Counter Balance.

Do you remember what that form of azazel and loki of the future are called?

[Tyrant Ruler]

Originally Posted by godz

Do you remember what that form of azazel and loki of the future are called?

I if I remember correctly azazel form was disaster typhon beast another armor. i don't remember loki's.

[aw454wtr]

Issei vs sona match in this vol was what the vol 5 RG should have been, a one way stomp

proves without the rules favouring sona and having illegal SG's no way Sona can match up to Rias or Issei level

[fan]

@aw454wtr what you just said was unnecessary sona didn't even what to win . she knew she would lose to Rias and issei . Sona is seen as a true rating game player not Rias or issei . Sona expects herself to lose in rating game and sona doesn't even want to be on rias and issei's level

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by aw454wtr

Issei vs sona match in this vol was what the vol 5 RG should have been, a one way stomp

proves without the rules favouring sona and having illegal SG's no way Sona can match up to Rias or Issei level

I wouldn't go that far. Even without those rules Sona, would've made it a challenging game for Rias. The main reason why Sona was stomped so badly in DX4 is how Ravel played it. As it was pointed out the difference between Ravel and Rias. Rias would fight Sona's tactics head on but here Ravel didn't give Sona a chance to use tactics. It wasn't just the difference in power between their team but the way it was used.

Rias would face Sona in a game of tactics even though Sona is the better tactician which in turn would give Sona many opportunities but Ravel says f**k no, I will not give you any chance to fight back or give you any opportunities to use your tactics.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

I wouldn't go that far. Even without those rules Sona, would've made it a challenging game for Rias. The main reason why Sona was stomped so badly in DX4 is how Ravel played it. As it was pointed out the difference between Ravel and Rias. Rias would fight Sona's tactics head on but here Ravel didn't give Sona a chance to use tactics. It wasn't just the difference in power between their team but the way it was used.

Rias would face Sona in a game of tactics even though Sona is the better tactician which in turn would give Sona many opportunities but Ravel says f**k no, I will not give you any chance to fight back or give you any opportunities to use your tactics.

I agree with aw454wtr it still would have been a challenge but it would have been more one sided affair even with Rias going headon with Sona tactics. You may want to go back and read that Rating game again, Rias team had a lot of restrictions, the game was set up for Sona perfectly to showcase her skills. But that's was what the author was going for anyway to showcase Sona and her tactics.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

I agree with aw454wtr it still would have been a challenge but it would have been more one sided affair even with Rias going headon with Sona tactics. You may want to go back and read that Rating game again, Rias team had a lot of restrictions, the game was set up for Sona perfectly to showcase her skills. But that's was what the author was going for anyway to showcase Sona and her tactics.

Not really, the real main restriction was Rias team couldn't do damage to the field since they would lose points.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Not really, the real main restriction was Rias team couldn't do damage to the field since they would lose points.

Let me rephrase that they had big restrictions that handicapped them more than Sona's team. Still without those restriction it would have been a more one-sided match, but the authors goal was to showcase Sona so thats why they got handicapped.

[Parry999]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

When Issei in CCQ became Maou-class after he achieved DxD apparently.

Still in the same class range as Vritra and weaker then Sairaorgs BtB.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

Let me rephrase that they had big restrictions that handicapped them more than Sona's team. Still without those restriction it would have been a more one-sided match, but the authors goal was to showcase Sona so thats why they got handicapped.

Again, the only restriction was Rias peerage couldn't damage the field.

[After listening to Ravel say that, Irina revealed an expression of surprise.

[Eh? So you’re saying that they’re unlikely to defeat a team like us that relies on power? I thought that their team specialised in counterattacks and various other techniques to deal with opponents that rely on power... Isn’t that why Rias-san and the others struggled last time?]

Ravel shook her head in response to Irina’s line of thought.

[That game was only a challenging struggle because the destruction of the field would result in a point penalty.]

I agree with Blazor98. Even if they didn't have that rule, Sona would've still given Rias a hard time.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Again, the only restriction was Rias peerage couldn't damage the field.

[After listening to Ravel say that, Irina revealed an expression of surprise.

[Eh? So you’re saying that they’re unlikely to defeat a team like us that relies on power? I thought that their team specialised in counterattacks and various other techniques to deal with opponents that rely on power... Isn’t that why Rias-san and the others struggled last time?]

Ravel shook her head in response to Irina’s line of thought.

[That game was only a challenging struggle because the destruction of the field would result in a point penalty.]

I agree with Blazor98. Even if they didn't have that rule, Sona would've still given Rias a hard time.

Okay? That's a big restriction to them and that changes the dynamics of the match-up. Also I never said it wouldn't have still been tough and I quote "it still would have been a challenge but it would have been more one sided affair" And your quote goes to my point so... thanks I guess? Also Gasper had restrictions as well. I don't really get your angle, nothing I said is false the author was showcasing Sona by handicapping Rias.

[syzorst]

Originally Posted by TheWu8128

Okay? That's a big restriction to them and that changes the dynamics of the match-up. Also I never said it wouldn't have still been tough and I quote "it still would have been a challenge but it would have been more one sided affair" And your quote goes to my point so... thanks I guess? Also Gasper had restrictions as well. I don't really get your angle, nothing I said is false the author was showcasing Sona by handicapping Rias.

Not really because there is only 2 people that this effected which was Xenovia and Issei. Issei even with that restriction was still the biggest threat to Sona since no one on Sona's team was strong enough to beat him in BxB. Xenovia even with Ascalon was still a huge threat as she could get aura from Durandal from a different space and channel it to Ascalon.

[TheWu8128]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Not really because there is only 2 people that this effected which was Xenovia and Issei. Issei even with that restriction was still the biggest threat to Sona since no one on Sona's team was strong enough to beat him in BxB. Xenovia even with Ascalon was still a huge threat as she could get aura from Durandal from a different space and channel it to Ascalon.

Okay? I really don't know what your arguing, so cool

[aw454wtr]

Originally Posted by syzorst

Not really because there is only 2 people that this effected which was Xenovia and Issei. Issei even with that restriction was still the biggest threat to Sona since no one on Sona's team was strong enough to beat him in BxB. Xenovia even with Ascalon was still a huge threat as she could get aura from Durandal from a different space and channel it to Ascalon.

Gasper was not allowed to use time stop ability, all gremory members had their power restricted as well, they could not got 100% for fear of killing the sitri team, in vol 6 when there were no restrictions we saw they results, kiba, xenovia, issei, akeno and rias all overwhelmingly trashed diadora and his peerage, whom were more powerful than vol 5 sona's peerage

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by aw454wtr

Gasper was not allowed to use time stop ability, all gremory members had their power restricted as well, they could not got 100% for fear of killing the sitri team, in vol 6 when there were no restrictions we saw they results, kiba, xenovia, issei, akeno and rias all overwhelmingly trashed diadora and his peerage, whom were more powerful than vol 5 sona's peerage

There was nothing said about not using their full power in fear of killing the Sitri team.

Gasper would still have been sent to scout and would have still been affected by garlic even if he had been allowed to use his Sacred Gear in.my view.

Issei would still have a 2-minutw warm-up period after activating his Balance Breaker before he could actually don it and would still have his blood drained even if he had used his full power. Issei was still overwhelmingly stronger than everyone in the Sitri peerage with his Balance Breaker.

If Xenovia had used Durandal maybe it would have been different but what if Tsubaki's Mirror Alice would have still worked?

And you're comparing apples and oranges by comparing Sona's and Diodora's peerages. Sona fights mainly using tactics and would have still given Rias a hard time regardless. Diodora seems to fight like any other king and still Rias and still it wasn't a complete cakewalk for them.proving that the peerages of the Young Devils were very close in terms of strength.

[vietthai96]

Rias nearly lost in that Rating game against Sona if not for Issei sudden power-up, so no please don't downplay Sona's abilitiy. Beside Sona build her peerage different from Rias's way, she doesn't aim to be strongest like Rias.