(L) Kaguya-sama wa kokurasetai

[Tenzen12]

Isn't even trying do what?

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by Sixth

Yeah, the series kinda lack of decent male candidates so far. The newest additional male cast who is actually competent or perfect is her own brother.

I wonder whether Aka will continue the whole Fujiwara X Mikado thing or it will be a one-time gag chapter with no follow-up.

I do agree with you that there is nothing special about Tsubasa, so I don't know what does Maki saw in him. As for Ishigami, I would rather have Maki be single than trying to hook her up with Ishigami at this point. I think Ishigami is just unworthy for Maki.

Abe is teased for a long time now, and Shiranui also got enough tease before her introduction. Yet neither of them got a proper chapter yet that fully centers around them. Abe should be the last addition of important males, since he also got the name from one of the suitors of The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter. Coincidentally though, Shiranui should have some sort of connection with him and the impossible challanges given the track record so far.

For now I can see Mikado being Fujiwara's partner in the Exchange Event, but nothing more than that. He still have some plans with Kaguya or pressured to do something about her.

I continue to pray for Maki.

[BWTraveller]

I wonder what will happen between Abe and Shiranui. The original tale had the guy try to find and purchase the robe but get swindled into buying a fake, if I understand right. With Miko the presentation of a fake bowl amounted to her discovering that the relationship she’d clung to all this time was largely fake, so how will Aka do this?

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Abe is teased for a long time now, and Shiranui also got enough tease before her introduction. Yet neither of them got a proper chapter yet that fully centers around them. Abe should be the last addition of important males, since he also got the name from one of the suitors of The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter. Coincidentally though, Shiranui should have some sort of connection with him and the impossible challanges given the track record so far.

For now I can see Mikado being Fujiwara's partner in the Exchange Event, but nothing more than that. He still have some plans with Kaguya or pressured to do something about her.

I continue to pray for Maki.

I will reserve my judgment on Abe until he actually makes his debut in the manga. But even so, isn't that Abe has a higher chance end up with Shiranui over Maki?

As for Mikado X Fujiwara, I am actually looking forward to their chapter if we have one. I have the feeling it will be extremely silly and funny.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Sixth

I will reserve my judgment on Abe until he actually makes his debut in the manga. But even so, isn't that Abe has a higher chance end up with Shiranui over Maki?

Doubtful. So far Aka seems to have tried to tie things with the challenges. The swallow cowry ended with the suitor dying covered in bird poop, and Ishigami ended up shot down. The Buddha’s begging bowl turned out to be a fake and Miko ended up discovering her friendship was far from what she thought it to be. Given this, I suspect a bad end for the guy whose counterpart was swindled into buying a worthless forgery.

[Sixth]

The chapter is out.

Just I expected, Maki is carrying the chapter for me. She was so nice (and pitiful) at the same time. I hope the writer will stop abusing her one day.

[Lex79]

Funniest part of the chapter was Maki lecturing Ishigami about moving on from his crush when she is far worse than him.
I have never been an Ishigami x Iino shipper but I can accept the development so far. Ishigami was given time to accept his rejection and his feelings toward Iino are growing due to the two of them becoming closer. Yes, there is still the possibility of an "you have Always been in love with her" but I hope it's not going to happen overaol, a nice chapter.

[BWTraveller]

Yeah, I've doubted from the start that Aka would pull something dumb like that; can't deny there's some possibility, and at the least it'd be a lie to say that he didn't care at all about her until recently. We've seen that he's had a very strong protective instinct toward her from the start, and an admiration and respect for her efforts. That said, that doesn't equate to love, even if it's a seed that can grow incredibly strong. But if they tried to pull "I didn't realize I was in love with you while I was working my butt off to get Tsubame to recognize me" then I'm going to have a big problem with it. That said, thankfully, not only did I never see any indication of this but it's seeming more and more unlikely.

Anyway, still haven't gotten the original raw so I don't know whether the translators tweaked it or Accelerator just interpreted his words as her "smiling" at him a lot. It's true, we don't see her smile that much, especially toward Ishigami. That said, she has become warmer toward him, kinder and gentler, and even when they fight it's over sweeter things (rather than accusing him of breaking rules and dismissing him as scum, she's just getting mad that he's refusing to talk with her or making it harder for her to get close; still fights, but have more of a feeling of friendship). I can certainly see her gradually showing more "gentle" faces to him and those looks giving him happiness.

[James Rye]

Poor Maki is the most abused character in this series right after Butt Monkey Fujiwara. Really hope that girl gets some sort of happy ending, this is getting really too pitiful...

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Anyway, still haven't gotten the original raw so I don't know whether the translators tweaked it or Accelerator just interpreted his words as her "smiling" at him a lot. It's true, we don't see her smile that much, especially toward Ishigami. That said, she has become warmer toward him, kinder and gentler, and even when they fight it's over sweeter things (rather than accusing him of breaking rules and dismissing him as scum, she's just getting mad that he's refusing to talk with her or making it harder for her to get close; still fights, but have more of a feeling of friendship). I can certainly see her gradually showing more "gentle" faces to him and those looks giving him happiness.

The translation went with "recently"...
Kindness or smiling at him is not the most important. It's the "recently", which I either can't really place in the timeline or it happens off-screen. That was the point I tried to convey, and how it feels like there are missing chapters where Ishigami started to notice a change in Iino. They don't exactly appear that much together, so it's easy to collect all of their shared appearances after the Tsubame rejection.

I hardly find a gentle smile in Chapter 227. Then they have their cartoon fight next chapter over Ishigami not answering to her LINE message. No smile there. No smile either during his prince moment in the "Who is Iino to me?" chapter, which was Chapter 230. And now, Chapter 238 is the next chapter they have talked to each other.

This is kind of similar to Iino admitting her flawed sense of justice and how meeting a lot of people opened her eyes about how she see herself. There is nothing in the manga that hinted at any enlightment from Iino. It just happened apparently. And now Ishigami brings up this "recently" thing with nothing concrete for the readers, really.

"Show, don't tell" is preferred as a writing method for obvious reasons. With these two however, it's telling unfortunately and showing is reserved for flashbacks. Totally useless, present contradictory flashbacks.

[Anh_Minh]

Much as I liked the conversation with Maki, I'm still not sold on Ishi x Miko.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

The translation went with "recently"...
Kindness or smiling at him is not the most important. It's the "recently", which I either can't really place in the timeline or it happens off-screen. That was the point I tried to convey, and how it feels like there are missing chapters where Ishigami started to notice a change in Iino. They don't exactly appear that much together, so it's easy to collect all of their shared appearances after the Tsubame rejection.

I hardly find a gentle smile in Chapter 227. Then they have their cartoon fight next chapter over Ishigami not answering to her LINE message. No smile there. No smile either during his prince moment in the "Who is Iino to me?" chapter, which was Chapter 230. And now, Chapter 238 is the next chapter they have talked to each other.

This is kind of similar to Iino admitting her flawed sense of justice and how meeting a lot of people opened her eyes about how she see herself. There is nothing in the manga that hinted at any enlightment from Iino. It just happened apparently. And now Ishigami brings up this "recently" thing with nothing concrete for the readers, really.

"Show, don't tell" is preferred as a writing method for obvious reasons. With these two however, it's telling unfortunately and showing is reserved for flashbacks. Totally useless, present contradictory flashbacks.

You're still harping on the "smile" part, even though that was the part I was questioning: did the original Japanese say that she's started smiling at him, or just that she's been "looking at him with kindness" as the translators said? I already agreed that we haven't seen much in the way of smiles. But we have been seeing a gradual increase to kindness from Tsubame on. And I'd say that that whole range would qualify as "recent" considering it hasn't even been three months (based on Maki saying he wouldn't be able to use the "mourning" excuse much longer). And we'll just have to disagree about the "show don't tell", as I've always felt they've shown plenty for me to follow the slow changes in their relationship. It's not shown as flamboyantly as it is with Miyuki and Kaguya, and it's not always done so thoroughly to make sure the point is made, but it's there.

[Kanon]

Ishigami cared enough about Miko to protect her multiple times and encourage her. Her change of attitude awakening romantic feelings inside him would work for me.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Much as I liked the conversation with Maki, I'm still not sold on Ishi x Miko.

Pretty much how I feel. Maki was great, even if my feelings on the ship have waned.

[aldw]

A bit of a non-sequitur, after seeing Akasaka and Mengo's art designs for the same characters (e.g., Oshinoko), it made me realize how much the simplicity of his art style works in a story like Kaguya-sama, as it has a 4-koma comedic feel integrated into a longer narrative presentation.

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Pretty much how I feel. Maki was great, even if my feelings on the ship have waned.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Much as I liked the conversation with Maki, I'm still not sold on Ishi x Miko.

Same here. Everything feels so forced about Miko X Ishigami's ship. It would be better if they just remains friends forever instead.

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

But we have been seeing a gradual increase to kindness from Tsubame on. And I'd say that that whole range would qualify as "recent" considering it hasn't even been three months (based on Maki saying he wouldn't be able to use the "mourning" excuse much longer). And we'll just have to disagree about the "show don't tell", as I've always felt they've shown plenty for me to follow the slow changes in their relationship. It's not shown as flamboyantly as it is with Miyuki and Kaguya, and it's not always done so thoroughly to make sure the point is made, but it's there.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Ishigami cared enough about Miko to protect her multiple times and encourage her. Her change of attitude awakening romantic feelings inside him would work for me.

Ishigami once again rejected Iino as a potential love interest in Chapter 206. And there is also the "crappy luck" in Chapter 211 referring to them becoming classmates again. Both are post-Tsubame.

The rest are the chapters I have already listed. Also add in that Tsubame is his Sun in Chapter 227.

So we have 206, 211, 227, 228, 230, and 238 here and somehow it should make sense. Ishigami woke up, looked at the calendar and decided that today he gives Iino a chance because of reasons the manga failed to properly portray or convey. Meanwhile Iino's own ideas went to nowhere, she got rewarded anyways. Iino's change didn't start during the Tsubame saga or around the end of it, otherwise they wouldn't have fought again, and Ishigami wouldn't be so against the thought of Iino as a love interest once again and wouldn't be so negative that they have ended up in the same class. Their chapters hardly form a coherent route where things have been totally building up to this moment.

[Lex79]

I don't know, because even without counting the number of panels where Iino and Ishigami appear together the feeling that Iino is trying to become closer to him, Ishigami is slowing moving on from his previous love and he's starting to realize she might be a suitable partner has been properly conveyed to me from the author. Aka can still screw up things but so far I find the development of this ship to be believable enough to accept it.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Ishigami once again rejected Iino as a potential love interest in Chapter 206. And there is also the "crappy luck" in Chapter 211 referring to them becoming classmates again. Both are post-Tsubame.

The rest are the chapters I have already listed. Also add in that Tsubame is his Sun in Chapter 227.

So we have 206, 211, 227, 228, 230, and 238 here and somehow it should make sense. Ishigami woke up, looked at the calendar and decided that today he gives Iino a chance because of reasons the manga failed to properly portray or convey. Meanwhile Iino's own ideas went to nowhere, she got rewarded anyways. Iino's change didn't start during the Tsubame saga or around the end of it, otherwise they wouldn't have fought again, and Ishigami wouldn't be so against the thought of Iino as a love interest once again and wouldn't be so negative that they have ended up in the same class. Their chapters hardly form a coherent route where things have been totally building up to this moment.

You do realize just how much of Ishigami's negativity comes from his assumption of Miko's continued hatred right? For instance "Talk about crappy luck" in response to Miko's noting that they're together could just as easily be an expectation that SHE hates being with HIM, and even if not fits as an anticipation of her hatred. Similarly, he didn't say she's someone he wouldn't ever WANT to date, just that it was impossible, which again fits with statements he'd made in the distant past that she hates him. She'd done nothing but nag at him and berate him and refuse to acknowledge any positive traits for a long time. He's not used to the original, classical tsundere and figured that the tsun was all there was, and viewed things accordingly. However, things have gradually been changing over time. First time he sensed real kindness with her was in the chapter where Chika suggested he try being nice to her (claiming that just a few compliments would make her forgive anything). Since then, slowly but surely, she's become a bit nicer to him. Even the last big fight, again, is a lot warmer than their old fights. She's not getting furious because he's playing games or telling him he's a good-for-nothing, she's mad that he won't talk to her (and stubbornly refusing to try Discord). From the start his inability to see any possibility with her was based on what he thought she thinks about him, not any personal negativity toward her. In fact, this chapter supports that, as he refers to Miko not as someone who he always disliked or someone he thought was rude or pushy or anything, but as someone he thought hated him.

Additionally, since you didn't answer my question about whether the translators changed things I DLed the original myself, and I can confirm: the Japanese text makes absolutely no mention of Miko's "smile". Just that someone he thought hated him has lately been showing a much kinder/gentler face around him, and he's starting to notice that that gentle face makes him happy.

But then a lot is perspective. Like how that line "crappy luck" could mean either "sorry you're unluckily stuck with me" or "crap, I'm stuck with you again", in general perspective and interpretation can have a big impact on things. I can see Ishigami's reactions being interpreted as actual hatred, I just prefer seeing it as him perceiving hatred directed toward himself. Aka may not have done a perfect job with this, but then again I'm not entirely sure it'd be "good writing" to spell things out so clearly that everyone just knows exactly how everyone feels at every panel.

[HtwoN]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Ishigami once again rejected Iino as a potential love interest in Chapter 206. And there is also the "crappy luck" in Chapter 211 referring to them becoming classmates again. Both are post-Tsubame.

The rest are the chapters I have already listed. Also add in that Tsubame is his Sun in Chapter 227.

So we have 206, 211, 227, 228, 230, and 238 here and somehow it should make sense. Ishigami woke up, looked at the calendar and decided that today he gives Iino a chance because of reasons the manga failed to properly portray or convey. Meanwhile Iino's own ideas went to nowhere, she got rewarded anyways. Iino's change didn't start during the Tsubame saga or around the end of it, otherwise they wouldn't have fought again, and Ishigami wouldn't be so against the thought of Iino as a love interest once again and wouldn't be so negative that they have ended up in the same class. Their chapters hardly form a coherent route where things have been totally building up to this moment.

Is it really that complicated to you? Ishigami didn't think of Iino as a potential candidate because he thought she hated him. Now that Iino has been changing her attitude, even getting into the same hobbies as him, he thinks that it might work.

He has always been protective of Iino since middle school so he definitely has a soft spot for her.