World of Tanks

[Blaat]

Finally had a decent game in my AMX 50 100, 1100xp base xp, 5 kills and I got killed by a ******* arty. The past weeks arties have been crippling me, one shotting me, and it's pissing me off. To make matters worse we're getting an arty bonus focused weekend, oh the joy.

[LeoXiao]

NewHope's main complaint seems to be its armor, and this shows that he is not taking the right approach to the King Tiger.

Armor has certainly been greatly reduced in effectiveness over the last few patches. I've never relied on it myself though, except in a few specific tanks. The Tiger II is not one of those. You have to rely on its gun and decent turning speed. It's a camping tank, and then after you've done some sniping, you go in (hopefully with most of your hp still left) and start brawling.

That being said, the Tiger II is not a terribly good tank. It's ROF and alpha are nothing spectacular, it's rather slow (as it should be), and is as big as a house. Now that the accuracy buff has made everyone a sniper, the IS6 and other tanks with "bad accuracy" can do most of what the Tiger II can at the engagement distances usually seen in the game

[Achiuakuna]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

It's a camping tank, and then after you've done some sniping, you go in (hopefully with most of your hp still left) and start brawling.

So it basically tries to be a TD and brawler at the same time, but not performing either task at 100% efficiency? Not enough alpha and camo for a TD, and not enough effective armor for a brawler?

And that is where the whole cry of "anti-German bias" comes from. I think it's much better to play a tank with an big strengths and big weaknesses. Since it's a team game, being well rounded usually get yourself overshadowed by a specialized vehicle that does what you're trying to do, but better. Now I know that they marketed the German tanks as tanks with "accurate guns", but accuracy is hardly a national attribute because it differs from tank to tank. A lot of German tanks have really slow-aiming guns to be considered truly accurate(even though the final reticle is small, you can't afford to shoot at minimal reticle all the time in battle.). Even if you really have to attribute "accuracy" to a specific nation, it would probably be Britain and not Germany.

Tiger II is by no means the worst tank ever, and I am sure good players can and will do well in it(even a baddie like myself can still enjoy it from time to time, despite my criticisms of it). But I have hammered this over and over again: a tank being good or bad has NOTHING to do with player skills. Because if you take skills into consideration, all the comments about the tanks themselves become irrelevant because you have two variables. You have to assume constant skill level to assess the raw power of a tank. The better the tank is by ITSELF the more forgiving it is, and the more popular or "OP" it becomes. And I think Tiger II being ranked 13 out of 16 tier 8 heavies on our server does tell you something about the tank design.

[Tempester]

My new tier 9:

Images

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Originally Posted by Achiuakuna

The whole Tiger II thing makes me suspicious about Ferdinand's reputation. Back in the days before all these changes it must have been considered to have extremely good armor. But now I am hesitant to get it because most tanks I play that face it can pen it from the front if I used gold without even aiming for weakspots.

The Ferdinand's armor isn't that great, but it's better than the AT-15's. The 200mm of superstructure can be easily penned by a lot of the heavy and TD guns you will be facing, but angling it through either turning your hull or poking over an incline helps. Basically, it's not something that should rely on its armor to save it, but it helps to bounce even half of the rounds that hit it when it backs ups after firing. The Rheinmetall-Borsig WT looks like a much better TD to me.

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

That being said, the Tiger II is not a terribly good tank. It's ROF and alpha are nothing spectacular, it's rather slow (as it should be), and is as big as a house. Now that the accuracy buff has made everyone a sniper, the IS6 and other tanks with "bad accuracy" can do most of what the Tiger II can at the engagement distances usually seen in the game

One nice thing is how the Tiger II's machine gun port is no longer a weak spot like it used to be. I still don't think it looks like a good tank, though.

Originally Posted by Achiuakuna

And that is where the whole cry of "anti-German bias" comes from. I think it's much better to play a tank with an big strengths and big weaknesses. Since it's a team game, being well rounded usually get yourself overshadowed by a specialized vehicle that does what you're trying to do, but better. Now I know that they marketed the German tanks as tanks with "accurate guns", but accuracy is hardly a national attribute because it differs from tank to tank. A lot of German tanks have really slow-aiming guns to be considered truly accurate(even though the final reticle is small, you can't afford to shoot at minimal reticle all the time in battle.). Even if you really have to attribute "accuracy" to a specific nation, it would probably be Britain and not Germany.

I think the Leopard 1 and WTE100 address these issues very well. Both are extremely specialized with useful roles and big weaknesses, and both have excellent accuracy. The WTE100 could use some adjusting, but I really hope the devs keep the excellent accuracy and aim time at least, because Germans need more top tiers like that.

[kampfer91]

Anyone try the test server , oh man , i can't have enough fun with the STB-1 .

Ah , the king tiger,i don't think it is weak , but not quite strong either , thank to the acc buff , the IS-3 can reliable hit something , and the KT is the 2nd slowest of hight tier german hvy .....

And the WTFe-100 , do you know why unicums whine about the tank being OP ? they run in pt so pretty much someone will spot for them , if the WTFe-100 is alone , it can't do anything , it will lose the spotting competition if someone smart enough to use the bush to increase their camo rate and negate the WTFe-100 's 420 m of viewrange . Being alone , the WTFe-100 can't effectively take down a group of enemy , and will die like a cockroach when its clip run out .

I only view a tank being op if they can do anything alone , they can bounce , destroy enemy panzers fast , good camo and good speed , hmm , hey , did i just talk about the foch 155 ?

[Achiuakuna]

Originally Posted by Tempester

I think the Leopard 1 and WTE100 address these issues very well. Both are extremely specialized with useful roles and big weaknesses, and both have excellent accuracy. The WTE100 could use some adjusting, but I really hope the devs keep the excellent accuracy and aim time at least, because Germans need more top tiers like that.

Yes. The newer German vehicles are much more relevant. Too bad we can't do much about the old ones. Maybe they'll get a buff or two here and there, but it never solves the fundamental problems.

[LeoXiao]

Originally Posted by Achiuakuna

So it basically tries to be a TD and brawler at the same time, but not performing either task at 100% efficiency? Not enough alpha and camo for a TD, and not enough effective armor for a brawler?

And that is where the whole cry of "anti-German bias" comes from. I think it's much better to play a tank with an big strengths and big weaknesses....
<snip for non-repetitiveness>

Yeah, this is basically the expanded version of what I was trying to say. However...

[Newhope]

[Silver-Throne]

Originally Posted by Achiuakuna

I think the insistence on Tiger II having good armor (along with many other deeply rooted concepts about certain tanks in this game) come from the game's earlier days. When tier 5s saw the Tiger II, the armor must have been extremely intimidating and impenetrable. Also the availability of gold rounds for credits really hurts tanks with raw armor values(flat, thick armor or a simple slope scheme on most German tanks). The real well-armored tanks in the game right now in my opinion are those that rely on intricate armor schemes that create many opportunities for autobouces (like the IS-6) and those with spaced armor(or magic tracks) that create opportunities for no-damage-penetrations. I have never in my life shot a Tiger II from the side and NOT do HP damage, but I often get my shot absorbed by the spaced armor or tracks in the cases where I shoot IS-3 or IS-6 from the side.

The whole Tiger II thing makes me suspicious about Ferdinand's reputation. Back in the days before all these changes it must have been considered to have extremely good armor. But now I am hesitant to get it because most tanks I play that face it can pen it from the front if I used gold without even aiming for weakspots.

Shoot the Tiger II in the side! I thought that trick works for me since I damaged the Tiger with my Super Pershing with APCR rounds. I dont play American Medium anymore, the tier 10 Patton does not suit my playing style. I rely on speed, accuracy, versatility, and power

Alternatively, shoot the rear. I`ve done that trick with my Hellcat shooting at the Tiger`s rear, killing him

Guys be careful of E-75 platoon, they scare me a bit and can wreck havoc

[Strigon 13]

*most_interesting_man_in_the_world.jpeg*
I don't always brag about a perfect battle, but when I do, I forgot to turn on battle recording

Spoiler:

Still It was a good afternoon after being out of the game for almost 3 months. Ended the day on a positive 18/22, only getting a 2 games losing streak near the end of the session.

It helped quite a lot that my new notebook is capable of running the game at a stable rate of 40+ fps, even in the middle of a nasty rain of smoke and fire.

Also, ARTY WEEKEND!! Time to stock up on consumables.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

It's going to be incredibly expensive to refit my battalions with coated optics.

I did take the vents off the M4 and replace them, because it has the highest view range of any Tier 5 medium.

And no, the reload time difference isn't much.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

It's going to be incredibly expensive to refit my battalions with coated optics.

It's possible that the Christmas/New Year special will have an equipment sale, so I recommend only getting optics for the tanks you're currently playing the most.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

I did the T110E5, E-50M, T-54, Leo PTA, E-75, and M4 Sherman. That was still a pretty big hit despite selling off the expensive Vents Class 3 and some of the Vent 2s that I had lying around.

Not totally sure what else to try this on. Maybe the T-44 and Centurion, for opposing reasons. The Indien-Panzer has horrible bloom issues so it's a Vstab/rammer/GLD setup. The T20 would be a very good choice since it has a 390-meter range at tier 7, but the vents give a boost to its rather low ROF. There's the fake scout Cromwell, but that only has a 360-meter view range. The French and Soviet heavies have massive aim time problems and very short base view ranges, so vents on top of GLD helps the aiming problem more. My real scouts either already have optics or run a passive setup, most of my TDs are full-passive setup so they run binos and a camo net.

I saw the mention of putting optics on the KV-1 since it tends to find the enemy with its face, but the base range is hideous.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

I saw the mention of putting optics on the KV-1 since it tends to find the enemy with its face, but the base range is hideous.

310m base view range is pathetic, even for tier 5. Even some tier 3 tanks have 400m view range. With optics, your view range will still be far less than most tanks. Probably better to put vents on the KV-1 instead for better gun handling.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by Tempester

310m base view range is pathetic, even for tier 5. Even some tier 3 tanks have 400m view range. With optics, your view range will still be far less than most tanks. Probably better to put vents on the KV-1 instead for better gun handling.

Yeah, it's already running vents/rammer/GLD for the 57mm machine gun.

And I figure I will do the vents to optics switch on the T20 since it's a decent tier 7 fake scout. Going to hold off on the others for now, the likely later sale being the big reason.

[LeoXiao]

With the 105mm L/7 gun on the Leopard Prototyp der Arbeitsgruppe A, the tank no longer feels like a big scout.

First battle:


Got 1000xp for my efforts. This tank is now amazing. I may not even bother with the Leopard if I take to liking the PTA enough.

[Silver-Throne]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

With the 105mm L/7 gun on the Leopard Prototyp der Arbeitsgruppe A, the tank no longer feels like a big scout.

First battle:


Got 1000xp for my efforts. This tank is now amazing. I may not even bother with the Leopard if I take to liking the PTA enough.

I thought that Leo 1 is some sort of upgraded version of ?PTA

[Gravitas Free Zone]

The Leo 1 has more gun dep and a better ROF (though not amazing).

Vent/no vent on the T20 went from 7.93 to 8.11 seconds. That's in the potentially-noticeable range, not like the 0.05 from the Sherman. Still... 390 meter base view range, hmmmmmm.

[Mow Yun]

Originally Posted by Achiuakuna

I think the insistence on Tiger II having good armor (along with many other deeply rooted concepts about certain tanks in this game) come from the game's earlier days. When tier 5s saw the Tiger II, the armor must have been extremely intimidating and impenetrable. Also the availability of gold rounds for credits really hurts tanks with raw armor values(flat, thick armor or a simple slope scheme on most German tanks). The real well-armored tanks in the game right now in my opinion are those that rely on intricate armor schemes that create many opportunities for autobouces (like the IS-6) and those with spaced armor(or magic tracks) that create opportunities for no-damage-penetrations. I have never in my life shot a Tiger II from the side and NOT do HP damage, but I often get my shot absorbed by the spaced armor or tracks in the cases where I shoot IS-3 or IS-6 from the side.

The whole Tiger II thing makes me suspicious about Ferdinand's reputation. Back in the days before all these changes it must have been considered to have extremely good armor. But now I am hesitant to get it because most tanks I play that face it can pen it from the front if I used gold without even aiming for weakspots.

If you look at the beta effectiveness of KT and Ferdi's armor (~205mm effective) then look at the tanks they fought in beta.

Tier 4 (immune from front at all ranges and angles)
Tier 5 (immune from front at all ranges and angles, 7.5cmL70 only had 138 penetration)
Tier 6 - Only VK3601H had more than 175 penetration (225 with conical gun)
TIer 7 Only Tiger had 200+ penetration (203).
Tier 8: Outside of ISU the most powerful gun was Ferdi's 128. Otherwise 225 penetration was max. USA tier 8 medium was T23 with tier 6 gun 90mm M3 with 160mm penetration.
Tier 9: JT and Obj. 704 were the same gunwise. However heavy tanks had no gun stronger than IS-4's 130mm S-70 with 4.5 RoF. VK4502 Ausf. B gun was the 3rd most powerful non-TD non-arty gun in the game.
Tier 10: No tier 10 TDs or mediums. Tier 10 T30 (276 penetration)

With regard to AP a properly angled KT upper plate could have bounced all but 5 guns in the game. German 12.8 cms, T34's gun, BL-10, S-70, T30's gun. Everything else had 225 penetration or less, and there were never more than 2 tier 10s in a tier 10 match with the old matchmaker.

Massive penetration creep has made mid-high tier armor fairly worthless, because in beta nobody carried more than a few gold shells. I only ever carried no more than 3 gold shells for psychological purposes (to fake I was shooting all gold). Also spaced armor was not implemented in beta and no magic shell absorbing tracks.

[Blaat]

I had a good game on my T-25.

Images

T-25

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Replay.