(L) Magi - Labyrinth of Magic [manga]

[Nicaea]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's right, we don't know what Hakuryuu's stance on world conquest is, so let's put that aside for a second. Let's talk just about Kou. Do you seriously think Hakuryuu would make a better king for Kou than Kouen? I mean we're talking about a guy who has to brainwash his whole army and court because no one thinks he has what it takes. Let's not even talk about his motivation, which is purely selfish, and the fact that he's allied with Judar, who's probably as dangerous as Al Tharmen if not more. Kouen, on other hand, cares about his people and is throughly supported by the court and army. Yeah, he didn't want to destroy Al Tharmen, but again, Hakuryuu has Judar which is pretty much the same. Let's no forget that no matter what Judar says, he has taken part on Al Tharmen's actions since the start of the manga. He's goal might be different than theirs, but he's as evil and dangerous as they are.

I personally think the answer is clear. Mind you, the point is kinda moot, since Alibaba will eventually kick his ass either way.

Not Hakuryuu's whole army is brainwashed.

Hakuryuu has solid support from the army that pledgedloyalty to his father. He still has some considerable army.

We don't know if Hakuryuu will be a better king than Kouen sjnce Kouen technically hasn't ruled over kou. Nor can we objectively say that Hakuryuu would be a bad king. At the same time, we can't objectively say he's a good king either.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Yes. Hakyryuu will destroy the world unless he's stopped. That's the typical route for someone who's driven by hatred.



Yes.



It might be his right, but that's irrelevant. The question is, can he be a better king than Kouen for the Kou empire. The answer is a clear no, because he doesn't care about anyone but himself.



It's not about right or wrong. It's about whether he can be a better king than Kouen. He can't. He's just a mad man driven by hatred. Just look at the latest chapter (243). He's losing it already.

No one knows if Kouen really is a better emperor. At any rate, just because you might be a better king, it doesn't mean it's lawful or you have any right to be the emperor. That's the flaw about monarchies. By all rights, Hakuyruu should have been the emperor.Kouen is merely the son of an usurper.

At any rate, I highly doubt Hakuryuu will succeed at staying alive. I think there's too many death flags for him.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Concrete example: everyone knows advertising is bullshit. It still works.

No, it isn't and no, it doesn't. We are literally saturated with it in our daily lives, but despite that new products and businesses fail most of the time. The more people are aware they are being catered to, the more picky they become.

Concrete Magi example: En should have become emperor at his father's death. He didn't.

The job is his as soon as the Western Subjugation Army is finished with it's job. He wasn't about to undermine the Emperor's will either, even if the circumstances behind his death and the letter of his will were highly suspect. En can take the throne whenever he wants, but there probably isn't any harm in Gyokuen being the Empress, since she can't really do as she pleases either.

And you underestimate the danger posed by Al Thamen. They came very close the last time. Letting them have the power of a world conquering empire is a terrible idea.

That wasn't them. That was a rogue state on the other side of the world that managed to achieve what it did only because they isolated themselves for the better part of a decade and were free to do whatever they wanted from any prying eyes or dissenting opinions. Magnostadt had an incredible amount of luck to have been able to pull off what they did.

En embarks on a course that'll mean either world destruction or world war (which they're in no way guaranteed to win). Whether Hakuryu's any better is debatable, but at least he's trying. And impeding En, which is something all by itself.

Just curious, but do you know how many people are alive in the Magi world? Have some kind of a guess?

Originally Posted by Nicaea

Why are we actually giving Hakuryuu flak for killing Gyokuen and claiming the throne? I mean, she had to die at some point. If it wasn't Hakuryuu, it would've been Kouen. And it would have been Kouen, the 5th prince of Kou taking the crown.

Killing her in cold blood as a result of a coup is one thing. Killing her because she's a clear and present danger to Kou or because she refuses to abdicate the throne as per the 2nd Emperor's will is quite another.

I'd like to point out that the Emperor's will was possibly a forgery, but even if it weren't it proves that Gyokuen knows there are limits to what she can achieve. She can't go on deceiving people forever nor can she provide an excuse for her to be put down. She has to be careful about over-extending herself and Al-Thamen.

[Sarka]

Originally Posted by Nicaea

I'm impressed that Hakuryuu conquered two dungeons. But yeah, whilst he did kill his mother and risks causing a civil war, I can't say that Hakuryuu wasn't in his right. Succession or not, it's not weird to think of En's lot as a bunch of usurpers. If anything I kind of like Hakuryuu showing determination not through speeches about honey and rainbows but actually doing something whilst being willing to deal eith the worst consequences. Teenage angst can get pretty annoying when it's overused.

I agree with this. The different between Alibaba and Haku is that Ali talk the talk, but Haku walk the walk.

Alibaba give up Balbadd is the equivalent of inaction. He's an idealist idiot. There's this saying: evil triumph when good man do nothing. He walk away, now Balbadd's citizens all suffer being second class people, permanently under Koun's rule.

This is why I like both Haku and Sinbad. They're both want good for their people, nd willing to dirty their hands so others don't have to.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Sarka

I agree with this. The different between Alibaba and Haku is that Ali talk the talk, but Haku walk the walk.

Alibaba give up Balbadd is the equivalent of inaction. He's an idealist idiot. There's this saying: evil triumph when good man do nothing. He walk away, now Balbadd's citizens all suffer being second class people, permanently under Koun's rule.

Discretion is the better part of valor. Alibaba is not an idiot, and he's hardly done nothing. There is nothing wrong with surrendering if it's the best course of action. And the people in Balbadd are better off now than they've ever been. They are not second class citizens. They are 2nd and 3rd class citizens with enough latitude to move up the ranks lol

This is why I like both Haku and Sinbad. They're both want good for their people, nd willing to dirty their hands so others don't have to.

That isn't Hakuryuu, and Sinbad knows how to be discreet if something unsavory may need doing.

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by Bogart

If said leader is sitting on her hands not bothering anyone, then it's bad.

Leading an evil world destroying organization is the furthest thing from not bothering anyone I can imagine.

Originally Posted by Nicaea

Why are we actually giving Hakuryuu flak for killing Gyokuen and claiming the throne? I mean, she had to die at some point. If it wasn't Hakuryuu, it would've been Kouen. And it would have been Kouen, the 5th prince of Kou taking the crown.

Apparently, because he didn't do it for the right reasons or with the right methods.

Which, I don't know about you, but "I hate that evil bitch and she's going to make a mess out of everything" seems like a pretty good reason.

Also I don't know why, but I need to see how he killed Gyokuen. I have this nasty feeling that she's just hiding or that she set Hakuryuu up.

Very possible.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Redhazard

Leading an evil world destroying organization is the furthest thing from not bothering anyone I can imagine.

She can want to do whatever, but if she's incapable of doing it, then so what?

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by Bogart

She can want to do whatever, but if she's incapable of doing it, then so what?

As I said before, that's your own assumption.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Redhazard

As I said before, that's your own assumption.

That works both ways.

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by Bogart

That works both ways.

I don't need to prove the ruler of a country has power. Much like I don't need to prove fire is hot.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Redhazard

I don't need to prove the ruler of a country has power. Much like I don't need to prove fire is hot.

But you might need to prove how much power and how hot fire is. The way you're going on about it, Gyokuen being able to get out of bed is grounds for killing her, no matter the costs.

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by Bogart

But you might need to prove how much power and how hot fire is. The way you're going on about it, Gyokuen being able to get out of bed is grounds for killing her, no matter the costs.

Head of an evil organization that wants to destroy the world.

Not a hard concept to grasp.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Redhazard

Head of an evil organization that wants to destroy the world.

Not a hard concept to grasp.

Who are about as effectual as a group of basement dwelling DnD players.

[Redhazard]

Originally Posted by Bogart

Who are about as effectual as a group of basement dwelling DnD players.

Given that everyone from Sinbad to Hakuei notice there are abnormalities popping all over the world and that Balbadd nearly turned into Black Rukh central. Not really.

In fact, they already did it once; so they have a better track record than most.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Redhazard

Given that everyone from Sinbad to Hakuei notice there are abnormalities popping all over the world and that Balbadd nearly turned into Black Rukh central. Not really.

Which tend to be small in scale and the result of proxies and enablers.

In fact, they already did it once; so they have a better track record than most.

Even so, it doesn't mean it's necessary to destroy Kou in order to prevent Al-Thamen from achieving their goals. It's not even evident that destroying Kou would prevent that.

[Anh_Minh]

it's a good start. And I don't see why Kou should get any more consideration than the countries it's conquered for... what reasons, already? Because Kouen believed, on much less basis than our beefs against Al Tharmen, that it would save the world from war.

[Sarka]

Originally Posted by Bogart

Which tend to be small in scale and the result of proxies and enablers.



Even so, it doesn't mean it's necessary to destroy Kou in order to prevent Al-Thamen from achieving their goals. It's not even evident that destroying Kou would prevent that.

I'm starting to see no point to arguing with you. You seem the type to stick to your own interpretation, even if others possibilities appear.

[Bogart]

Originally Posted by Sarka

I'm starting to see no point to arguing with you. You seem the type to stick to your own interpretation, even if others possibilities appear.

I don't think my points are being addressed or acknowledged, so I will repeat them as necessary.

[Redhazard]

Chapter's out. Good stuff!

Next one can't come out fast enough.

[Bogart]

So Belial is going to cause them both to fully fall? Well, no one ever said that everyone deep down wants to do the right thing lol