Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by only1uknow

Genzou is awesome i wanna know too.his magic is Grim Reaper right?

Yes it is. He could make people kill themselves on sight. Crazy stuff.

[kidswable]

Originally Posted by only1uknow

well~knowledge/information can be a deadly weapon/tool to use u know.
btw i like it even better when Tatsuya discover other people power and tell them how to use it(something like that).coz it make other people in awe n respect him hehehe.
btw; is it possible for Tomitsuka do long range fight? not just close combat "range zero"?.i hope if he can then i wish it will bee Tatsuya who told him how to do it,that guy seem to idolise tatsuya.
it seem Tatsuya fanboy also increasing lol i.e ; Fumiya,Kento,Wataru,(i would like to include tomitsuka and Isori lol).

I think Erika's family background (Rozen) would be more interesting than Mizuki.coz it was mentioned before that Mizuki's parents are ordinary people n if not for Mizuki's Eyes they wouldnt know whats happening in magic world.
furthermore Rozen seem to have interest in Tatsuya. i wanna know other from10 MC beside Saegusa,Juumonji,Itsuwa,Ichijou,and The Yotsuba.

Genzou is awesome i wanna know too.his magic is Grim Reaper right?

Well, of course rozen plot is more interesting than mizuki's. I just thought that it could make a good plot twist if mizuki is a spy in the future plot.

Grim Reaper, best mental/mind based magic. Just by knowing that he is exist would make anyone dead. What a perfect magic for the grandfather for mahesvara

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by kidswable

Grim Reaper, best mental/mind based magic. Just by knowing that he is exist would make anyone dead. What a perfect magic for the grandfather of* mahesvara

Is that how it works?

I know it's a 2 pronged spell. I forget exactly, but it's something along the lines of: First he plants the image of death into the mind of all his enemies within a certain Radius, like how Miyuki's magic works it's an area of effect spell. Then upon seeing him, the second part activates leading people to kill themselves as soon as they see him. It's sort of really epic. How do you defend against that? At all?

[Chirst]

New video clip and pic from Mattdamon

Got new video clip moderated by Chibi Erika and Leo

Spoiler for video:

video clip
[/URL]

Got new pic from - Spring 2014
Animedia Magazine April 2014 Issue

Spoiler for pic:

Spoiler:

[Guest2]

Originally Posted by Rasen

Erika beat Morisaki for two reasons: Because it was close range, and because Morisaki wasted time doing a physical movement, drawing his CAD. If Morisaki used "Drawless" instead of "Quickdraw" Erika would not have been able to interrupt the spell.

Isn't drawless just an aiming technique that still involves him pulling out his CAD? How would we know he didn't actually use it? And wouldn't it be possible for his magic to fail even if he used drawless if she disappears from his sight, like Tats did to Hattori?

Originally Posted by Rasen

It's not the different magics that confuses her, it's the timing issue. You can see, she's not surprised AT ALL at the presence of magics from two different types being used. Therefore, one specialized CAD, two types of magic = not a problem. She's trying to figure out how the "single" sequence handles the timing of the activations.

I have to agree with Rava and nosear. When I read that scene, Mayumi saw the gun CAD and aiming sights and automatically thought Shizuku was using a specialized CAD. But then the magic sequence combined 2 magic spells from different magic systems which wasn't possible for the type of cad she saw. The 4 major systems are listed in v1c5. These 4 systems each also have another sub set of 2 types. And then in each type there are many other sub categories like Decomposition and Fortification. And this ofcourse mainly applies to systematic magic.

Spoiler for 4 Magic Systems/8 Types:

"Speed, Weight", "Movement, Vibration", "Converge, Dissipate", and "Absorb, Disperse" are known as the 4 System/8 Type magic. Granted, there are some exemptions to this category.

Originally Posted by Rava

Double 7 has Tatsuya using a magic that's a combination Vibration/Non-Systematic Magic in his fight against Tomitsuka. I'm pretty sure there are other examples if I dug down hard enough.

The 2 magics I believe Tatsuya actually uses are only non-systematic magic and decomposition magic. Remember it was stated in v1 his non-systematic magic has vibration-type magic properties. This is also the conclusion Tomitsuka came to when he realised things weren't looking good for him. But I believe only decomposition was installed in the CAD, since it was mentioned in v9 that Cads are actually unnecessary for non-systematic magic. So I believe he was only pretending it was installed in his cad and used it without. Thats my best guess anyway.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Guest2

Isn't drawless just an aiming technique that still involves him pulling out his CAD? How would we know he didn't actually use it? And wouldn't it be possible for his magic to fail even if he used drawless if she disappears from his sight, like Tats did to Hattori?


I have to agree with Rava and nosear. When I read that scene, Mayumi saw the gun CAD and aiming sights and automatically thought Shizuku was using a specialized CAD. But then the magic sequence combined 2 magic spells from different magic systems which wasn't possible for the type of cad she saw. The 4 major systems are listed in v1c5. These 4 systems also have another sub set of 4 8 types. And this ofcourse mainly applies to systematic magic.

Spoiler for 4 Magic Systems/8 Types:

"Speed, Weight", "Movement, Vibration", "Converge, Dissipate", and "Absorb, Disperse" are known as the 4 System/8 Type magic. Granted, there are some exemptions to this category.

The 2 magics I believe Tatsuya actually uses are only non-systematic magic and decomposition magic. Remember it was stated in v1 his non-systematic magic has vibration-type magic properties. This is also the conclusion Tomitsuka came to when he realised things weren't looking good for him. But I believe only decomposition was installed in the CAD, since it was mentioned in v9 that Cads are actually unnecessary for non-systematic magic. So I believe he was only pretending it was installed in his cad and used it without. Thats my best guess anyway.

Drawless:

prior to drawing the CAD from the holster, Morisaki had already used his own senses to aim the prepared magic. This was a high level technique for pistol-shaped CADs known as “Drawless”. Since there was an assistance device built in that “activated in the direction that the CAD was pointed in”, it was very difficult to fire pistol-shaped CADs without drawing them. Nonetheless, Morisaki did this perfectly without sacrificing the Specialized CAD’s advantage in speed.

So yeah, it's activated before he draws it, but he does draw it. If you move fast enough to avoid it's aim you'll dodge it every time, but it sounds like it can be a sort of surprise attack. You'd have to notice it before the magic activates, or else you can't Dodge. Tatsuya can notice the activation sequence, but Erika for instance, could be more 50/50. Honestly most people who weren't seasoned probably wouldn't notice it fast enough.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by anonfr

Is that how it works?

I know it's a 2 pronged spell. I forget exactly, but it's something along the lines of: First he plants the image of death into the mind of all his enemies within a certain Radius, like how Miyuki's magic works it's an area of effect spell. Then upon seeing him, the second part activates leading people to kill themselves as soon as they see him. It's sort of really epic. How do you defend against that? At all?

The first image doesn't even have a radius limit, it can be recorded through cameras, it is the 2nd hit that requires direct contact with him.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

The first image doesn't even have a radius limit, it can be recorded through cameras, it is the 2nd hit that requires direct contact with him.

I said the second hit required contact.
But oh yeah, it can be through camera's. I was more or less describing my interpretation.
Honestly I wish the mechanics of it had more detail. It's sort of really vague.

Here's the description.

Grim Reaper (死神の刃) is an Outer-Systematic Mental Interference Magic unique to Genzou. It plants a specific image within the target's mind, usually one of death. After the target has been exposed, no form of protection or distance and time will stop the magic. As long as the victim recalls the image, the implanted suggestion will take physical form. Enemies who meet Genzou for a second time would kill themselves. The implantation process does not seem to require a direct meeting, but the final kill does require it. The target has to be aware of the user and the user has to be aware of the target. The only way to survive is getting rid of the memory of the image.

Seriously. How can you defend against him? like at all. Do you guys think any of the current characters could win against him? I don't. Dead. All of them, just dead. No matter the infinite barriers of phalanx, the 7 spells of Erika's orochimaru, all of Tatsuya's OPness, like all of them. Dead. Maybe Miyuki could figure something out via her own outer systematic magic, but still, probably dead.

[Ultragunner]

yeah, as long as you see his image, you've already "dead". The only way to "defend" against him is...not seeing him at all

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

yeah, as long as you see his image, you've already "dead". The only way to "defend" against him is...not seeing him at all

Yeahhhh now that's what I call broken. While perhaps not being as visually appealing as Mahesvara laying waste to the masses, it certainly sounds more technically impressive.

Here's a thought. Tatsuya's magic is basically life and death right? Genzou is pure death.

Is there another Yotsuba that was purely life? would that be interesting? Would it be relevant in any of the hindu comparisons people keep making?

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by anonfr

Seriously. How can you defend against him? like at all. Do you guys think any of the current characters could win against him? I don't. Dead. All of them, just dead. No matter the infinite barriers of phalanx, the 7 spells of Erika's orochimaru, all of Tatsuya's OPness, like all of them. Dead. Maybe Miyuki could figure something out via her own outer systematic magic, but still, probably dead.

Grim Reaper is Outer Systematic magic. maybe only Tatsuya that can dispel it using Counter Magic.

The implantation process does not seem to require a direct meeting, but the final kill does require it. The target has to be aware of the user and the user has to be aware of the target. The only way to survive is getting rid of the memory of the image.

look... The only way to survive is getting rid of the memory of the image.

much easier to dispel than Cocytus.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by hakazee

Grim Reaper is Outer Systematic magic. maybe only Tatsuya that can dispel it using Counter Magic.



look... The only way to survive is getting rid of the memory of the image.

much easier to dispel than Cocytus.

can you be more specific?

How would Tatsuya dispel it exactly?

And what spells exist that allow a person to get rid of a memory? Even just an image.

If a memory erasing spell existed I feel like it would've been used on Maya way back when she was abducted, raped and tortured.

I'm not disagreeing with you so much as not understanding your logic. As well as not understanding how you can state it as though it were common sense when it's not. Tatsuya has never been shown dispelling strong outer systematic magic, memory erasing magic has never been properly shown.

So, how would it happen?

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by anonfr

can you be more specific?

How would Tatsuya dispel it exactly?

And what spells exist that allow a person to get rid of a memory? Even just an image.

If a memory erasing spell existed I feel like it would've been used on Maya way back when she was abducted, raped and tortured.

I'm not disagreeing with you so much as not understanding your logic. As well as not understanding how you can state it as though it were common sense when it's not. Tatsuya has never been shown dispelling strong outer systematic magic, memory erasing magic has never been properly shown.

So, how would it happen?

i don't know.

you can use your own imagination.
BUT the author already stated that is possible.

The implantation process does not seem to require a direct meeting, but the final kill does require it. The target has to be aware of the user and the user has to be aware of the target. The only way to survive is getting rid of the memory of the image.

but i believe it's the same way with Poison Bee.

The magic Mitsugu used to bury the vampires was of his own devising. Bearing the tasteless name "Poisoned Bees" that he applied himself, it was a sensory interference spell that increased the target’s pain perception infinitely until death. In this regard, if the target was someone who had a high pain threshold and was able to employ Counter Magic before the shock led to death then the spell would unravel, and there wasn’t any effect on opponents who could cut off their pain sensors. In terms of killing power, this paled in comparison to the "Reaper’s Blade" created by his uncle, Yotsuba Genzou, the head of the Yotsuba Family two generations ago. The mutters that leaked out of his mouth showed that Mitsugu was aware of this himself.


Still, it was premature to say that "Poisoned Bees" was magically inferior to "Reaper’s Blade". The greatest advantage to "Poisoned Bees" was its ability to finish an opponent with the tiny prick of a pin. On the other hand, "Reaper’s Blade" required personal delivery to ensure death, leaving behind wounds on a corpse and blood splatter everywhere. In comparison, "Poisoned Bees" would only leave behind a nondescript wound that would be hard to link to the cause of death. When faced with a victim of "Poisoned Bees", the initial assumption would be poison, then maybe death by suffocation, but the corpse would leave behind no evidence to support either hypothesis. For assassination purposes, "Poisoned Bees" was superb magic.

[Echizen777]

Originally Posted by anonfr

can you be more specific?

How would Tatsuya dispel it exactly?

And what spells exist that allow a person to get rid of a memory? Even just an image.

If a memory erasing spell existed I feel like it would've been used on Maya way back when she was abducted, raped and tortured.

I'm not disagreeing with you so much as not understanding your logic. As well as not understanding how you can state it as though it were common sense when it's not. Tatsuya has never been shown dispelling strong outer systematic magic, memory erasing magic has never been properly shown.

So, how would it happen?

As far as I know there is no known way to counter it, excepted maybe Phalanx. This is why we need Tsutomu to give us more explanations, Lina said in vol 11 that there is a method to counter a certain OSM magic named Lunar Strike, but we don't know how. It is likely Fumiya will have a fight in the next volume, hopefully we will have more informations.

You can try to kill him without looking at him... But would Tatsuya die if for example he sees him a second time via Elemental Sight?

Maybe it's possible to counter it via Far Strike? It works on the soul/mind. I have a the feeling OSM users are more sensible to spells like that.

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by anonfr

Yes it is. He could make people kill themselves on sight. Crazy stuff.

Totally. I describe him as this unholy fusion of Lelouch and MewTwo.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by hakazee

i don't know.

you can use your own imagination.
BUT the author already stated that is possible.


but i believe it's the same way with Poison Bee.

Yeah.. I guess. I mean you're right, it's possible, I just wonder who's capable of doing it, since we're talking about abilities that haven't been shown yet.

I mean, most things are possible in a fringe sort of way, but actual practical application is a different thing entirely.

Originally Posted by Echizen777

As far as I know there is no known way to counter it, excepted maybe Phalanx. This is why we need Tsutomu to give us more explanations, Lina said in vol 11 that there is a method to counter a certain OSM magic named Lunar Strike, but we don't know how. It is likely Fumiya will have a fight in the next volume, hopefully we will have more informations.

You can try to kill him without looking at him... But would Tatsuya die if for example he sees him a second time via Elemental Sight?

Maybe it's possible to counter it via Far Strike? It works on the soul/mind. I have a the feeling OSM users are more sensible to spells like that.

How in the hell would Phalanx counter it? It's a mental attack. As soon as you see him, you die. Just dead. It's an image planted in your mind, not an attack magic phalanx can block.

Far strike? That would work only assuming your first idea works. If Elemental sight is a loophole, which I don't think it is considering it even works through camera's (Thanks again for pointing that out to me, ultragunner). But it could happen, since we're only speculating on a fight that can literally never take place.

But, idk. I don't think it's about attacking him, it's about surviving him. Killing him before he kills you, without ever looking at him.

It actually sort of makes him like Medusa I guess. except even if you just see him indirectly you still die. The magic seems to be tied to his image, not seeing him in person per se.

THIS IS WHY WE NEED MORE GENZOU SIDE STORIES

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Totally. I describe him as this unholy fusion of Lelouch and MewTwo.

Thats... a good way to put it.

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Lucarion

Totally. I describe him as this unholy fusion of Lelouch and MewTwo.

Again, your imagination scares me and I'm the one who writes fanfictions in his freetime....

Still, Genzou is an interesting character.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by Echizen777

As far as I know there is no known way to counter it, excepted maybe Phalanx.

nah Phalanx block Outer-Systematic magic.......
hmmmm yeah maybe it can because Phalanx blocks psion intrusion. but he needs to block the first one. the second one is death.....

Originally Posted by anonfr

Yeah.. I guess. I mean you're right, it's possible, I just wonder who's capable of doing it, since we're talking about abilities that haven't been shown yet.

I mean, most things are possible in a fringe sort of way, but actual practical application is a different thing entirely.

yup. who knows......



edit

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by hakazee

nah Phalanx block Outer-Systematic magic.......
hmmmm yeah maybe it can because Phalanx blocks psion intrusion. but he needs to block the first one. the second one is death.....



yup. who knows......

Hmm. So maybe Phalanx can... I still don't think it can though. Personally.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by anonfr

Hmm. So maybe Phalanx can... I still don't think it can though. Personally.

maybe because Phalanx block Psion intrusion.

look another example of Outer-systematic magic, mental magic

volume 08

The other one was a user of magic that controlled a person's will. The longest this could continue was one minute; the number of targeted individuals was seven people at the most, and the effect range was twelve meters. That he could not command the self infliction of wounds to those whose mind manipulation power exceeded his own was another limitation, but however temporary it was, when they fell under his technique, his victims inevitably could not resist his commands. In order to send commands, psion waves transmitted the general idea. It could overcome thick walls to work, and the barrier of language was also no problem. He took control from 10 seconds to 1 minute. Since the victims would reliably execute only a single command and there had been 2 examples recorded outside of Japan, the name of "One Command" had been stuck on this magic.

but again.... who knows......

that's only theory....




good nite.... gonna sleep now.