(L) Aku No Hana (Flowers of Evil)

[Dr. Casey]

I love this show. It's a slow descent into Hell, just like my favorite anime ever (School Days). Well, except that School Days started out sweet and charming, wheras Aku no Hana plunges us into Hell (one of the early circles) from the very beginning. I'm finding myself very curious as why Nakamura is so embittered towards the world and, more specifically, their town so much. I wonder if she's grown up in an abusive home.

[vaden]

Oh, man, Mariko Goto is in the new opening. If you haven't heard her work with Midori (the band), it's pretty much derangement in musical form. I still doubt I'll ever find the show's animation any better than marginally tolerable, but someone with a hell of a brain is working in the sound department.

[Marly]

So I actually decided to read the manga, and after a while, I realized the anime is a pretty decent adaptation of the manga- I just didn't realize manga was just so overrated.

[-Sho-]

Yeah good adaptation for the dialogue/script feeling of the manga but the animation is a no , this rotoscoping is so bad imo.
Manga overrated ? can't stop laughing.

[kuromitsu]

I thought I'd already wrote about ep 4 here, turns out I haven't... x_x)

Anyway I'm sure everyone has already said everything, so I'd just like to note two things:
- NEW OP and it's awesome.
- The part where Nakamura showed up under Kasuga's window at night felt like something out of a horror movie.
- Kasuga has such long eyelashes...
- it's kind of ridiculous that people are still complaining about the animation. This show simply wouldn't work in usual anime style.
- This show is still awesome.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

- it's kind of ridiculous that people are still complaining about the animation. This show simply wouldn't work in usual anime style.

That's a false dichotomy at best. The animation doesn't get to escape criticism simply because some alternative might have been worse.

[hyperborealis]

You do realize the show is a romcom complete with a harem?

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Marly

So I actually decided to read the manga, and after a while, I realized the anime is a pretty decent adaptation of the manga- I just didn't realize manga was just so overrated.

I agree, if the manga were a bit more... commented it would be on the first pages of manga and light novels sub-forum.

[Marly]

Originally Posted by -Sho-

Yeah good adaptation for the dialogue/script feeling of the manga but the animation is a no , this rotoscoping is so bad imo.
Manga overrated ? can't stop laughing.

Yes, as I established earlier in the thread, the animation is awful and the rotoscoping is just lazily done- And I feel that any justification that tries to defend the style, such as that really silly subject about the 'white canvas' thing on characters' faces disappearing in the distance, just comes off as defending for the sake of defending.

But the manga is most certainly overrated- Since this is not a manga thread, I won't elaborate much on it, but most of its popularity stems from specific shock factors in certain points in the series rather than its overall repetitive storytelling as a whole. It's honestly just mediocre in quality at best.

[NoemiChan]

The guy is becoming a certified masochist....

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by vaden

That's a false dichotomy at best. The animation doesn't get to escape criticism simply because some alternative might have been worse.

If your criticism is "it could flow better/be technically better" that's one thing (even though I personally don't mind the way it is). But still whining about "omg it's soooo horrible I don't like ittt" after 4 episodes?

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Marly

Yes, as I established earlier in the thread, the animation is awful and the rotoscoping is just lazily done- And I feel that any justification that tries to defend the style, such as that really silly subject about the 'white canvas' thing on characters' faces disappearing in the distance, just comes off as defending for the sake of defending.

The way you used the word "establish" comes off like you think you're somewhat an authority on the subject. Sad to inform you, you didn't establish anything. Some of us like the animation. For me personally, it's easy on the eyes compared to everything else that's out right now, which is quite honestly refreshing to see, as I do watch a lot of anime. As for its technical merit, it's much more fluid than 80% of the shows out there.

And as I've established previously (LOL), I don't think you or anyone can point me to a similar type of project that would serve as a good reference point to really say why the rotoscopy is bad for projects of such scope and character. This is a fully rotoscoped TV anime. If you can point me to a project like that, I'd be very grateful.

Just to be clear, I really don't mind people dismissing the anime because they think the animation is ugly or bad or whatever, but I don't think anyone can say rotoscopy and then use comparative dismissal. People tried though.


As for your defending for the sake of defending sentiment, that kind of stance usually prompts me to slap a troll label on people, as I can spot my kinsmen pretty well.


EDIT: Perhaps the naysayers just can't accept that those of us who like the show rather focus on the positives. Yes, the rotoscopy could be much better (how much better can it be for this type of project is a subject of debate), but in my mind everything else about the show puts this issue on the back seat.

[Lord of Fire]

^That.

Though I don't downright hate the animation or the rotoscopy used, I managed to look through its flaws and enjoy the story for what it is, which I can't describe as anything else but bone-chilling – Kasuga finally gets to score with the girl of his dreams, but Nakamura will keep reminding him that she's got him by the balls, so he probably won't be able to enjoy it as much as he'd like to (he'll probably be terrified that Saeki finds out about him wearing her gym clothes and dump him on the spot, if not worse).

[Marly]

Originally Posted by cyth

The way you used the word "establish" comes off like you think you're somewhat an authority on the subject. Sad to inform you, you didn't establish anything. Some of us like the animation. For me personally, it's easy on the eyes compared to everything else that's out right now, which is quite honestly refreshing to see, as I do watch a lot of anime. As for its technical merit, it's much more fluid than 80% of the shows out there.

Oh, my sincerest apologies- I didn't think you'd be so offended over my choice of words. No, that's not the tone I was going for. But I do know that a lot of people didn't like the animation, and when I said 'established,' I meant that I just gave out few of the reasons why people wouldn't/didn't like the animation, and thus 'establishing' that perspective. I also don't get where the 'fluid' part comes from- That honestly just seems extremely forced when it's pretty evident that it looks really choppy. Mind being more specific with that 80%?

Originally Posted by cyth

And as I've established previously (LOL), I don't think you or anyone can point me to a similar type of project that would serve as a good reference point to really say why the rotoscopy is bad for projects of such scope and character. This is a fully rotoscoped TV anime. If you can point me to a project like that, I'd be very grateful.

Yes, truly hilarious using the same word that I used whilst under the assumption of that said word's usage. No one said anything about this show being not unique. It's true that there aren't many fully rotoscoped TV animes lying around, or any at all, for that matter- But some films like Waking Life could incorporate fully rotoscoped sequences and yet look just as 'good' as this show does, and that was made 12 years ago. Just because something is unique doesn't give it an excuse to look just lazy.

Originally Posted by cyth

Just to be clear, I really don't mind people dismissing the anime because they think the animation is ugly or bad or whatever, but I don't think anyone can say rotoscopy and then use comparative dismissal. People tried though.

No one said rotoscoping was bad. Poorly done and lazy rotoscoping is, though. (Like any poorly done and lazy conventional animation) I don't get where you're going with this- Maybe you're just generalizing all the people who don't necessarily like this show's visuals? Are you even actually reading my posts?

Originally Posted by cyth

As for your defending for the sake of defending sentiment, that kind of stance usually prompts me to slap a troll label on people, as I can spot my kinsmen pretty well.

What, am I wrong?

Originally Posted by cyth

EDIT: Perhaps the naysayers just can't accept that those of us who like the show rather focus on the positives. Yes, the rotoscopy could be much better (how much better can it be for this type of project is a subject of debate), but in my mind everything else about the show puts this issue on the back seat.

Originally Posted by Marly

So I actually decided to read the manga, and after a while, I realized the anime is a pretty decent adaptation of the manga-

Reading comprehension is your friend.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Marly

But some films like Waking Life could incorporate fully rotoscoped sequences and yet look just as 'good' as this show does, and that was made 12 years ago. Just because something is unique doesn't give it an excuse to look just lazy.

Here we go again. Waking Life is a Hollywood production. It's not a production for television, it's not even a Japanese production. That's why I say comparative dismissal is impossible. So when you say that Aku no Hana is 'unique', you better believe those words.

As for it looking lazy, that's your opinion and I respect you having a different opinion. I just don't agree with it.

What, am I wrong?

Yes, yes you are! Can I get my troll stamp out now?

[Marly]

Originally Posted by cyth

Here we go again. Waking Life is a Hollywood production. It's not a production for television, it's not even a Japanese production. That's why I say comparative dismissal is impossible. So when you say that Aku no Hana is 'unique', you better believe those words.

As for it looking lazy, that's your opinion and I respect you having a different opinion. I just don't agree with it.

Again- Just because something is unique doesn't give it an excuse to look like something from literally 12 years ago (Hollywood production, yes- But it was also a very obscure and likely low on production budget) or be unable to be criticized in any way. If it looks bad, and I feel that it hasn't actually achieved what it was trying to visually, then I'd say it deserves criticism. And why, yes- It is my opinion. Thanks for pointing it out. And maybe, just maybe there wouldn't be an argument in the first place if people didn't have conflicting opinions.

Originally Posted by cyth

Yes, yes you are! Can I get my troll stamp out now?

Now you're just being silly. I don't even have a stamp card for that. I'm a good law abiding citizen, after all.

[vaden]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

If your criticism is "it could flow better/be technically better" that's one thing (even though I personally don't mind the way it is). But still whining about "omg it's soooo horrible I don't like ittt" after 4 episodes?

I'll leave the tone argument aside, since I don't think it's particularly relevant, and address the idea that there are only two roads this show's animation could have gone down: the one it did take with rotoscoping, and some "conventional" anime style. The implication seems to be that the only valid argument is one that proceeds on making the former better, since the latter is obviously undesirable.

I don't buy this argument; in my eyes, it just betrays a lack of imagination. Frankly, I think any combination of typical drawn animation with a subdued character design would have worked. Most of the show's effectiveness in creating atmosphere is due to a combination of direction, background art, and music, not the specific animation technique being used. As it stands, the animation's tendency to call negative attention to itself with its poor execution is distracting, and gets in the way of appreciating the show's strengths. Perhaps if the rotoscoping were more fluently executed, we wouldn't be having this argument, but I feel like the animators dropped the ball here for no good reason.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by cyth

Yes, yes you are! Can I get my troll stamp out now?

Your stamps are outdated. Please purchase "forever" troll stamps from the troll store.

Originally Posted by Marly

Again- Just because something is unique doesn't give it an excuse to look like something from literally 12 years ago (Hollywood production, yes- But it was also a very obscure and likely low on production budget) or be unable to be criticized in any way. If it looks bad, and I feel that it hasn't actually achieved what it was trying to visually, then I'd say it deserves criticism. And why, yes- It is my opinion. Thanks for pointing it out. And maybe, just maybe there wouldn't be an argument in the first place if people didn't have conflicting opinions.

Yea, one must remember that unique is neither a positive or unique modifier. It can certainly drive a series's perceived quality in a special direction though. For example, plan 9 from outer space was a unique experience for me. But I'm not going to use it to declare the film immune from criticism because it's certainly not a masterpiece either.

[Guitaraholic]

I think the discussion of whether or not the rotoscoping is good/bad/ugly is redundant and boring. It's totally subjective in the sense of whether or not it conveys the story to you in a way that you like. I personally love the show and the way its done. I don't care if they did it that way because of budget restraints, the fact that they're being lazy, the fact they're sucky animators or it was totally intentional. FOR ME, the lack of detail at times, the still frames of characters, all the things the haters hate are cool with me. They ADD to why I like the show, because they add a surrealism to the show, a sense that things are out of place. It works... for me. To say you don't like it, fine. To say its bad is not your right to say, and if you say it is, then it's my right to say it's good, which leads to a never ending loop. It's totally subjective. Try to be a little understanding of all sides. But specifically the haters... jeez.

[Dop]

Seriously, it's been four weeks and people are still having this argument?
You wouldn't let it lie?