(CR) Legend of the Galactic Heroes remake

[4th Dimension]

I personally as someone who hasn't seen the original past the first two episodes am liking this so far. I have some problems with how some tactics seem obvious and such.
And the bit with ordering a hit on someone hours after they failed to stand up, is a bit much, but it's fun and interesting.

On the other hand I'm not feeling much for the Imperial side. So I am not hype that the next episode will be from their PoV. I much prefer the messy Republican side and Yang.

[pervypig]

For all his rhapsody with "dictators are made by the people, so the people should take responsibility", Yang doesn't quite practice what he preaches, since he just let those on top push him around when he could have kicked their butt like reinhard.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by pervypig

Let's face it LoGH deserves a proper Remake, and squeezing 100+ep into 24 just don't cut it.

They wouldn't be squeezing "100+ ep" into anything. LoGH is a novel, this is ostensibly an adaptation of the novel, not a remake of the previous anime adaptation, although to be fair that's what it more and more looks like and what I find really disappointing. And as I mentioned above, you don't need 110 episodes to adapt the novel. The OVA did that because they followed a concept that worked with their business model and the anime-watching habits of the time. Aside from adapting the book almost word-by-word, the OVA also goes into details about stuff that's barely even mentioned in the novel, naming and showing battles that the novel only alluded to, incorporating outside materials, etc. A LoGH adaptation doesn't have to be 110 episodes. Seriously, the whole story is barely 2000 pages long. Also, if they're doing this I'd like to see some sort of assurance that they're going to finish the story, not cut it off after the first arc... :/

Originally Posted by pervypig

For all his rhapsody with "dictators are made by the people, so the people should take responsibility", Yang doesn't quite practice what he preaches, since he just let those on top push him around when he could have kicked their butt like reinhard.

He does practice it, that's pretty much his entire point (and arguably one of his main flaws). "The people", not "a person who thinks he knows better".

[RDNexus]

So...wait...the Original Series went beyond what was actually necessary? Why? JUST WHY?!! There were times it was a total borefest.
And you still complain about this new version not offering anything new, when the previous one did more than what might have been needed.

When nowadays we have more than enough examples of what rushed adaptations of Novels end up becoming, now I came to know that LoGH was an equally less than good example but on the opposite spectrum

Like I said before, the current approach to the story, alongside it's updated visuals, may be what are making me enjoy this version more than the previous one.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by xrick

So...wait...the Original Series went beyond what was actually necessary? Why? JUST WHY?!! There were times it was a total borefest.
And you still complain about this new version not offering anything new, when the previous one did more than what might have been needed.

I don't entirely follow, but the OVA is what you get when you do what lots of fans demand and adapt something basically word-by-word. And it's an interesting case because it actually does that well. I'm not complaining about the OVA because it followed its concepts and goals really well (most of the time), with great sense of... well, pretty much everything. This show seems like it's trying to be a spiritual successor of the OVA, aping it in many ways, except it's not working, well, not for me.

Originally Posted by xrick

When nowadays we have more than enough examples of what rushed adaptations of Novels end up becoming, now I came to know that LoGH was an equally less than good example but on the opposite spectrum

No, the OVA is a perfectly good adaptation IMO. Even the changes and additions they did work really well (Dusty's expanded role, for example, or hell, Admiral the cat, and they even used that cat really well instead of just randomly plopping it into the background), at least most of the time, because some things are downplayed, and there's one change that I think was a huge misstep - I'm curious how Die Neue These will handle that. It's a great adaptation, just not a very accessible one, and I wouldn't fault anyone who feels like they don't want to sit through 110 episodes of it. If you enjoy the new show, that's great, be happy with it. I wish I could recommend the English translation of the novels instead, but... yeah. I'd rather not.

[pervypig]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Seriously, the whole story is barely 2000 pages long. Also, if they're doing this I'd like to see some sort of assurance that they're going to finish the story, not cut it off after the first arc... :/

Gee, I never did got around to hitting the LN since it's so frigging long time ago, so i don't know. But i did watch the old version, so it is nostalgic to me and i do want it to finish.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

He does practice it, that's pretty much his entire point (and arguably one of his main flaws). "The people", not "a person who thinks he knows better".

The way Yang is practicing his freedom is far too passive to be considered as "taking responsibility for demo-crazy", I'm not saying that he should take up the mantle like batman or start a rival political party, but merely sitting it out and letting hooligans who don't even know what you're capable of vandalize your house? Nobody needs that kind of free-speech now, do they?

[Wandering Soul]

Got to say that those were some incredible powerful sprinklers. They were more like mini water cannons.

[Dextro]

Honestly I never got around to watching the original OVA but I just read the first novel a couple of months ago and I must say that this adaptation so far is absolutely fantastic in my book. There are some casting choices I had to get used to (the two main characters mostly) but overall the pacing is spot on and the minor changes it seems to have done have expanded just enough to be interesting.

They've been faithful almost to a fault so far. I'm enjoying it. I'm just going to be sad if this doesn't get greenlit for enough sequels to cover everything.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by pervypig

The way Yang is practicing his freedom is far too passive to be considered as "taking responsibility for demo-crazy", I'm not saying that he should take up the mantle like batman or start a rival political party, but merely sitting it out and letting hooligans who don't even know what you're capable of vandalize your house? Nobody needs that kind of free-speech now, do they?

What do you think he should have done? He actually fought back with the sprinklers.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by pervypig

The way Yang is practicing his freedom is far too passive to be considered as "taking responsibility for demo-crazy", I'm not saying that he should take up the mantle like batman or start a rival political party, but merely sitting it out and letting hooligans who don't even know what you're capable of vandalize your house? Nobody needs that kind of free-speech now, do they?

What is he capable of in your eyes ?!?

Because one thing he is not is action fighter. He is in a way a stuffy historian given command position.

As such even as much as he did, indicating his displeasure passively by not cheering to a speech he doesn't agree with, is plenty. I wouldn't expect him to interrupt the politico and start arguing him or anything, because THAT would be making a scene. And one might argue he in his position as a military officer shouldn't argue in public with their civilian overseer on matters of politics and diplomacy.

On the other hand he wasn't ordered to cheer so he can use that to not cheer.

If you want a man of ACTION, that would probably be Reinhard, given Imperial aristocratic background. They probably operate that way, by appointing supposedly capable people to places where their powers are extensive and autocratic and trusting them to make things work using ANY MEANS possible.
But that's not how the democratic political system works.

And since I think the show will likely cover more on this contrast, I won't say more on the subject.

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Got to say that those were some incredible powerful sprinklers. They were more like mini water cannons.

Yeah. Somebody DEFINITELY added couple zeros more than necessary in the design sheet. Then again I MIGHT head cannon it as them being designed for nonlethal defence of property in a pinch, but if so it's not a common feature given the suprise in the hooligans.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by xrick

When nowadays we have more than enough examples of what rushed adaptations of Novels end up becoming, now I came to know that LoGH was an equally less than good example but on the opposite spectrum

.

I dont want whatever you are smoking. I watched the original OAV in a semi-marathon mode, as in 5 episodes a day. And it was quite good. I am of the school that you need the small details that matters in a story as epic in scope as LoGH was. Heck, I'd still recommend it to people who wanted a story like GoT series but were repelled by the sexposition.

[RDNexus]

Thankfully, I don't drink nor smoke.
There are those who mind the smallest of details, those who want to be spoonfed about every little thing, and those who prefer a "Show, Don't Tell" approach.

[pervypig]

Originally Posted by Kanon

What do you think he should have done? He actually fought back with the sprinklers.

I expect him to creep out of the house and film those guys, especially that guy who got his mask flushed away, and publicize them so as for demons they are. Surely, if he can do something like spray them with water guns, he can take some videos and post them on youtube or future-tube something? Hey, that's how democratic societies work right?

Saying you are responsible as a citizen for your leaders and then just letting things be... sorry, I don't buy that at all.

[4th Dimension]

You mean sneak out of the house they have surrounded and have already been shown to be perfectly capable of throwing HAND GRENADES into. o_0
He goes out, he is just going to get himself lynched.

Also given that the house system already has a camera component, there is nothing to say that it's NOT recording things already.

Also he had much better thing to do, and that is get them to go away or both him and kid might not survive being made an example of.

Oh and this bit has nothing to do with democracy or anything. These guys are criminals, weather or politically sponsored or not. And they are already known to the government and public. So stopping them is more of a problem of justice system rather than the political system.

Oh, and besides, if he wasn't playing with the sprinklers that guy wouldn't have lost his mask.

[pervypig]

Originally Posted by 4th Dimension

You mean sneak out of the house they have surrounded and have already been shown to be perfectly capable of throwing HAND GRENADES into. o_0
He goes out, he is just going to get himself lynched.

Also given that the house system already has a camera component, there is nothing to say that it's NOT recording things already.

Also he had much better thing to do, and that is get them to go away or both him and kid might not survive being made an example of.

Oh and this bit has nothing to do with democracy or anything. These guys are criminals, weather or politically sponsored or not. And they are already known to the government and public. So stopping them is more of a problem of justice system rather than the political system.

Oh, and besides, if he wasn't playing with the sprinklers that guy wouldn't have lost his mask.

There are definitely multitude of ways to fight back against hooligans, politically motivated or otherwise. Since you have already highlighted the criminal nature of these attacks, the obvious thing would be to associate them to the politicians who back them with a smear campaign. Taking into consideration that Yang himself is now a 'war hero', there's no way his testimony won't have effect.

If you don't find that form of resistance attractive, a really wise man would just go with the flow, a.k.a. stand and clap when told to and avoid trouble. He can then work from within and gain as much allies as he can within the military so that his 'ideal' is practical. As it is, Yang is all talk about his 'responsibility', which I don't buy at all.

I don't like bringing real life examples, but there are more than one example where crappy leaders get voted into office by democratic societies because people like Yang just can't be bothered, or are too scared to do anything.

P.S: The LN was written rather long ago before youtube or even the internet become popular, so I guess the author probably didn't figure that into his novel, but even in the days before internet, one can hold press-conferences and affiliate himself with one or another political belief. There isn't a need to fight alone, as Yang himself said 'a small force does not fight against many' normally. Which is what make this behavior of his so unacceptable, now that I think back on it (me = wee kid when LoGH 1st came out).

[Heibi]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Got to say that those were some incredible powerful sprinklers. They were more like mini water cannons.

Probably a way to help extinguish fires faster while awaiting the fire department. Think of the automation happening these days and you can visualize the concept of dual purpose sprinklers.

[4th Dimension]

Originally Posted by pervypig

There are definitely multitude of ways to fight back against hooligans, politically motivated or otherwise. Since you have already highlighted the criminal nature of these attacks, the obvious thing would be to associate them to the politicians who back them with a smear campaign. Taking into consideration that Yang himself is now a 'war hero', there's no way his testimony won't have effect.

If you don't find that form of resistance attractive, a really wise man would just go with the flow, a.k.a. stand and clap when told to and avoid trouble. He can then work from within and gain as much allies as he can within the military so that his 'ideal' is practical. As it is, Yang is all talk about his 'responsibility', which I don't buy at all.

I don't like bringing real life examples, but there are more than one example where crappy leaders get voted into office by democratic societies because people like Yang just can't be bothered, or are too scared to do anything.

P.S: The LN was written rather long ago before youtube or even the internet become popular, so I guess the author probably didn't figure that into his novel, but even in the days before internet, one can hold press-conferences and affiliate himself with one or another political belief. There isn't a need to fight alone, as Yang himself said 'a small force does not fight against many' normally. Which is what make this behavior of his so unacceptable, now that I think back on it (me = wee kid when LoGH 1st came out).

You are missing one point though. In democratic system, military should not be the one to be involved in politics. Military is the sword of the state, no matter who the general public elects to power. That is the only way the system can work without it devolving to a situation where the military basically appoints those in power.

This does not prevent the enlisted to participate in politics by supporting those they think share common beliefs with them via voting, which is how change is supposed to be made in a democratic system. Hell they aren't forbidden from running for office, but doing so while enlisted and on duty is a bit of a faux pas, which you should be able to imagine why it might be problematic if the solder being ordered to do something and the representative of the civilian government (and therefore the people) ordering them to do it are in different parties and have been squabbling before.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by pervypig

I expect him to creep out of the house and film those guys, especially that guy who got his mask flushed away, and publicize them so as for demons they are. Surely, if he can do something like spray them with water guns, he can take some videos and post them on youtube or future-tube something? Hey, that's how democratic societies work right?

Saying you are responsible as a citizen for your leaders and then just letting things be... sorry, I don't buy that at all.

He could (and may) have done that, but it wouldn't have accomplished much. Maybe a few of them would have been arrested, but they are numerous and I doubt their activities could be traced back to Trunicht. From the looks of it, everybody is aware of the PKC's existence anyway. They simply have no proof Trunicht is behind them.

Anyway, you're not really wrong. Yang's belief that he shouldn't get involved with politics (for the reasons 4th dimension stated) is probably his biggest character flaw. One thing the show has left out during its info dump is that Rudolf was an accomplished military man, and it was thanks to these accomplishments he managed to get elected and eventually become a dictator. And as a historian, Yang is surely aware of the other countless examples throughout history. This is most likely the reason he believes a soldier, and one hailed as a hero to boot, should stay as far away from politics as possible and simply obey orders.

I can't say more without spoiling future events. Just know that the story is aware of the contradictions, and Yang's character will be explored deeply... if this adaptation ever gets this far.

[Tenzen12]

Trunicht was legitimitely elected can do his stuff only with mandate of people. As long as democratic system work properly (and we don't have reason believe otherwise), Yang giving his vote someone else is enough fulfil his responsibities. Trunich is not dictator, at least not yet. Someone should investigate his ilegal activities, but that in other hand is not Yangs responsibility.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Anyway, you're not really wrong. Yang's belief that he shouldn't get involved with politics (for the reasons 4th dimension stated) is probably his biggest character flaw. One thing the show has left out during its info dump is that Rudolf was an accomplished military man, and it was thanks to these accomplishments he managed to get elected and eventually become a dictator. And as a historian, Yang is surely aware of the other countless examples throughout history. This is most likely the reason he believes a soldier, and one hailed as a hero to boot, should stay as far away from politics as possible and simply obey orders.

It's not even that he's a soldier, really, it's more like that one, he's simply not the type of person to get involved in politics, period; and two, is that he doesn't believe that individuals trying to force their way through is the democratic way of doing things, even if one such individual happens to be right about something (then again, what is "right"). I think his flaw is not quite that he doesn't want to get involved with politics as such, more like that he sticks to his principles to a fault. Leaving it to the population to sort itself out usually doesn't work out very well, and from Yang's position he can nudge things along only so far.