(L) Knights of Sidonia - Manga Discussion

[Solace]

It's amazing this thread hasn't been created yet. Ah well. Some Wiki stuff:

Knights of Sidonia (シドニアの騎士 Sidonia no Kishi) is a manga series by Tsutomu Nihei, published by Kodansha in their magazine Afternoon. The manga series has been published in English in North America by Vertical. An anime television series adaptation, produced by Polygon Pictures, premiered in Japan in April 2014.

The story follows the exploits of Nagate Tanikaze, who lived in the underground layer of Sidonia since birth, raised by his grandfather. Never having met anyone else, he trains himself in an old Guardian pilot simulator every day, eventually mastering it. After his grandfather's death he is found by the rest of the population and selected as a Guardian pilot, in hopes of defending Sidonia from the Gauna's attack using his outstanding combat skills.

There are currently 12 volumes and the manga is still ongoing.

[felix]

Maybe its because its super depressing dark sci-fi? with kind-of "tentacle rape" among other things. Well not really, but as close as you can get with the sci-fi excuse.

[bastek66]

Originally Posted by felix

Maybe its because its super depressing dark sci-fi?

That gave me good laugh.

[Solace]

It's not really that dark. But it does have some fairly dark moments, yeah. Anyway, I've read all the translated chapters and I'm up to date with the few raws that are ahead of it, so I'm open to answering questions that can't be asked in the anime thread, if anyone is curious.

[deathcoy]

Glad to see there are peeps interested in nihei's new work. I really loved all his previous mangas.

There seems to be some discontent among fans with his recent work Sidonia with it steering to the cliche harem setting with more dialogue and ecchi comedy thrown in etc. To be honest its refreshing to see him try something different although its main stream stuff. Really enjoying it.

Looking forward to when the plot moves over to reactivating the 2nd Chimera...

[dark44]

who is the father of tsugmi kunato?
why mas produse honoka not nagate he is a hero

[Alhazred]

I wonder how significant the only mildly stealthy Stanisław Lem reference is. The pacifists were trying to colonize a planet in the 'Lem System,' and one of the pervading themes in Lem's science fiction is the impossibility of communication with developmentally divergent alien intelligences - and the motives and reasoning of the Gauna remain as opaque as ever...

[Forbin]

What ever happened to Hoshijiro's clone?

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Forbin

What ever happened to Hoshijiro's clone?

The original one they collected from that first sortie against Benisuzume? She appears again later but her fate is nothing pleasant to contemplate.

Spoiler for Hoshijiro...:

As of the more recent manga chapters i think she was last seen fused at the groin to a giant placenta tentacle that was part of the system Kunato/Ochiai used for creating chimeras.

[Esclair]

Originally Posted by dark44

who is the father of tsugmi kunato?
why mas produse honoka not nagate he is a hero

Without Hiro's training I don't think Nagate is any better than a Honoka. Aside from his immortality I think his genetics are actually not as suited for their current environment than the Honokas anyways.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Esclair

Without Hiro's training I don't think Nagate is any better than a Honoka. Aside from his immortality I think his genetics are actually not as suited for their current environment than the Honokas anyways.

It's made pretty clear in the slapstick violence scenes that the Honokas are physically superior to most humans, including Nagate (though definitely not superior to Lala, as they discovered after the flying kotatsu incident ...) It might've made more sense to try and get Hiro involved in designing the compressed mental development programs they use for the clones, but the enhanced clone program is relatively recent, given that the first 11 Honokas are five years old and the 'first batch.'

[stassy]

Doesn't the last chapter show through Shou what Ochiai really wanted to attain, aka a new human state evolution? (if of course she is not kos before being recovered or if it wasn't a Gauna plot to make them think they are now "civilized" )

[Mysterius]

I wish we had gotten this scene with Honoka Shou:



Ah, well. Maybe we'll see a fanfic or doujin that has it. *fingers crossed*

Originally Posted by Forbin

What ever happened to Hoshijiro's clone?

The first placental clone (the half-aware one) was last seen in Chapter 46 (page 27), still bonded to some sort of Chimera-birthing growth.

The Benisuzume clone was sequestered by Toha Heavy Industries for "examination" and "storage for safekeeping". I don't think we've any clue what she's been up to. Pining for Tanikaze, perhaps?

Ochiai, in Kunato's guise, did try to convince Sasaki to part with the Benisuzume clone in Chapter 42, but was apparently unsuccessful. Being in a coma, following the Kanata incident in Chapter 46, has prevented him from pursuing the matter since.

I hope Tanikaze finds the Benisuzume clone again sometime, and that this Hoshijiro clone proves more talkative; the drama would be delicious. (Sorry, Izana.)

[Solace]

Originally Posted by dark44

why mas produse honoka not nagate he is a hero

Because raising an army of Nagate would arouse public suspicion. He's a clone of the greatest pilot they ever had.
There's two different cloning techniques used in Sidonia. The first is the artificial kind, like Nagate. The second is the "natural" kind, like Izana. The third gender doesn't actually pick their gender, they pick their partner and their body adapts to mate with that partner. Izana developed feelings for Nagate so her body is becoming more female. It's a subconscious choice, not a conscious one.

But in addition to having children through normal intercourse (after the body adapts), the third gender can also reproduce asexually and create a clone of themselves. This is why Izana's (grand?)mother looks just like her. Add to that the ability to create immortal bodies and suddenly there are a lot of clones running around at once.

As for the Honokas....well, maybe they just like having a big family?

To be honest, the exploration of transhumanist concepts in this story is one of its most appealing aspects.

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by Solace

Add to that the ability to create immortal bodies and suddenly there are a lot of clones running around at once.

I shall henceforth take this to mean that Izana and Nagate having kids is the ultimate solution to making sure that the human race doesn't die out.

Shinatose Yure: <steeples fingers> "All according to keikaku..." (since she did originally create them both, one way or another...)

[deathcoy]

Shiratose Yure started the new generation of Sidonians who can Photosynthesize, what i don't understand is how come the current immortal community/people or at least some of them are able to photosynthesize?

Theres a scene of the Captain Kobayashi photosynthesizing, Shiratose Yure also mentions how normal humans like Nagato do really have a foul smell which kinda indirectly hints shes has the special gene etc etc. I thought one has to be born with the photosynthesizing trait in their genes.

Also, theres 2 types of immortals right? Those who consume medication to prolong their lives(aka the older generation like Kobayashi, Lala, Yure) and those who are born with the immortality gene(aka nagato)?


On side note, sad that they don't intend to wake up second chimera plus kunato is coma, prolly won't see plot advancement with the ochai's plan for now... We need a new plot though, encounter with another Seed ship or something...

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by deathcoy

Shiratose Yure started the new generation of Sidonians who can Photosynthesize, what i don't understand is how come the current immortal community/people or at least some of them are able to photosynthesize?

They can transfer to cloned bodies.

[cupumanager]

I Also actually found it strange that whereas Nagate don't Photosynthesize, Kobayashi do.
Photosynthesis, If my memory serves me right, introduced after 4th Gauna War - 100 yrs before, by dr. Shinatose as a experiment to lessen the strain into food production...in the end, most younger Sidonians were bon with that; Nagate is a special case, why didn't Yure made him able to? Even though if Hiroki also do not, there is no reason why can't Nagate. Also, Kobayashi is from Hiroki's generation too - but She can Photosynthesize. About Yure herself or Hiyama we have no clue nor confirmation - but I have a thought thats the reason why Hiyama a Canteen Lady...

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They can transfer to cloned bodies.

Yeah, but there still no proof or confirmation that Kobayashi swapped body, whether implied or not, even if there are possibility.

Its also interesting that Yure, advise Izana to use Cybernetic limbs...this proven to give Izana advantage later on with the help of Sasaki - however, isn't things like Regeneration is Yure's Specialty?

This is just a small, rather unimportant detail, I'm Curious... but when Sasaki met Tanba 10 years ago, He called Sasaki "Aren't you the granddaughter of that person..." Who?

Originally Posted by Alhazred

Spoiler for Hoshijiro...:

As of the more recent manga chapters i think she was last seen fused at the groin to a giant placenta tentacle that was part of the system Kunato/Ochiai used for creating chimeras.

Spoiler for More or less...:

It can be said that, Tsugumi is Infested Hoshijiro Clone's Daughter - just that she's damn big she grow outside Hoshijiro's body

[deathcoy]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They can transfer to cloned bodies.

Hahaha, thats a rather cheap way out tbh but seems quite valid. Cloned bodies kills 2 birds with 1 stone which are photosynthesize and true immortality(no need for medication).

Originally Posted by cupumanager

Its also interesting that Yure, advise Izana to use Cybernetic limbs...this proven to give Izana advantage later on with the help of Sasaki - however, isn't things like Regeneration is Yure's Specialty?

It has something to do with regenerating a new organic arm being quite an arduous and long process which is why Izana opted for cybernetic. Also, in my opinion Yure has no sole authority to enchance Izana as those genetic advantages are akin to having the abilities of Immortals and Izana is and never going to be part of the Immortal Community since they have stringent membership headcount and requirements.

Originally Posted by cupumanager

This is just a small, rather unimportant detail, I'm Curious... but when Sasaki met Tanba 10 years ago, He called Sasaki "Aren't you the granddaughter of that person..." Who?

Good point, i was wondering the same too, who are her progenitors. Btw Sasaki is not an immortal too right?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by deathcoy

Hahaha, thats a rather cheap way out tbh but seems quite valid. Cloned bodies kills 2 birds with 1 stone which are photosynthesize and true immortality(no need for medication).

I think medication is still the preferred way to do things.

It does raise a question, though: why is Hiyama stuck in the bear suit? Couldn't she transfer to a healthy clone?

It has something to do with regenerating a new organic arm being quite an arduous and long process which is why Izana opted for cybernetic.

That, and I think Yure is interested in trans-humanism in general, rather than just biology. If cyborg limbs do a better job than organic ones, why not go for them?

Also, in my opinion Yure has no sole authority to enchance Izana as those genetic advantages are akin to having the abilities of Immortals and Izana is and never going to be part of the Immortal Community since they have stringent membership headcount and requirements.

Technically, a lot of spots opened recently... Though Izana probably isn't in line for them.

Good point, i was wondering the same too, who are her progenitors. Btw Sasaki is not an immortal too right?

She works with her face uncovered, so probably not. (Kobayashi and Yure also occasionally walk around bare faced, but it's in their time off. More or less.)


On a lighter subject... how would you characterize the attitudes of Nagate's harem?

The robot is easy. She's a tsundere.

Yuhata is honest about her interest, aggressive and cunning.

Izana used the gender confusion to get close as his best male(-ish) friend, and then turned on the feminity. What I like to call the Charlotte Maneuver. (Further digression: in Bakates terms, would it be the Hideyoshi, or the Minami?)

But what about Tsumugi?