Who can be a Hokage? [unfortunately manga]

[epyon96]

There's a lot of discussion about different people having the power to be hokage like Itachi, Jiairyai, etc.

However, what I am curious about is out of the current Naruto characters, who has what it takes to be Hokage immediately (power and wisdom and all other hokage needed characteristics) if Tsunade (the 5th hokage) passes away. (breast enlargement failure led to catastrophic results lolz. )

The first name that comes to my head immediately is Jiairyai. However, the more I think about it, the less it is likely because he lacks the focus. He will probably want to authorize more females (who may not be competent) to be ninjas just so he can go about his "business".

The next name that comes to mind is perhaps Kakashi. He seems to be very coolheaded and seems intelligent from the anime, manga and his character profile kindly profided by Sarcastik. He may lack the power at the moment but he isn't that old, he can still train and get better. Also, he doesn't belong to any clan so he won't have any prejudices. However, again the question of reliability comes to mind since he is always late (albeit he is getting better now). Than again, Tsunade isn't too reliable either. However, there's something about Kakashi that strikes me as not hokage-material. It is a matter of ambition. Kakashi seems to have none whereas Gai has too much but he is too hotheaded and headstrong.

hmm....what are your thoughts?

EPYON

[xavier8200]

Well, as far as Jiraiya being too "horny" or whatever, He gets down to buisness when its needed. I think that he would be a great candidate for the Hokage name if Tsunade was to check out.

I dont think that Kakashi would take the name even if he was nominated, Kakashi just isn't that type and there are plenty out there that are stronger than kakashi. He wouldn't last long. we all know why he is always late, and that is fine by me. I dont know if any of the other Jounins that we know of would be a great candidate for the name. If Tsunade and Jiraiya bite the big one there is going to be some trouble in the fire country for sure.

[Xarrais]

After Jiairyai I would say Guy would make the best hokage of the remaining good journin. He is a bit goofy at times but he knows when it is time to get serious and when he does he seems quite powerful skills and stratagy.

I think it was pretty clear from the anime in recent episodes that kakashi was stronger than Asuma and kuerni ( I know spelling is screwed they are japanese names I don't know the spelling hehe) And Guy is a tad stronger than kakashi ( numerous references to his slight advantage in power. He was the only journin to get any respect from itachi (other than jiaryai)

[EbonySeraphim]

No one but those who are Sannin are anywhere close to the level of becoming Hokage. In fact, I think of all of the Sannin, none of them are very qualified. All of them are pretty well qualified in the battle ability sense probably, but each has some issue with them that still makes them very incomplete. Orochimaru for obvious reasons isn't someone who Konoha would like to put in power. Jiariya just doesn't want the job and probably wouldn't take it to seriously/passionately - he is smart enough not to take the job because of this. Tsunade just has some life issues(gambling, drinking, being a woman...ok ok not the last one). I guess out of all the three though, she would have the most motivation to become Hokage after seeing two people's dreams of becoming Hokage, die.

Qualifications to become Hokage go beyond leadership ability, power, and even intelligence. Even more important than those three, I think those who are candidates to becoming Hokage are those that have a passion for Konoha. Those who consider it family; those that want to protect it; and those willing to die protecting it and any single member as easily as Sarutobi did. So far, none of the characters have shown enough love for the village of Konoha for me to believe that they are qualified to become Hokage even if they have the other aspects of the job.

EDIT: If it wasn't to clear from my first sentence - anyone that's not part of the Sannin, doesn't come close to Hokage. (IMO)

[xavier8200]

Ebony Seraphin, I dont know if you read the manga but...

Spoiler:

Tsunade has the drive to put others first. She knows what it really means to become Hokage and to make sacrifices

In the end, everyone has their faults, becoming Hokage doesn't mean that you are flawless, you can be a gambling hokage or even a hokage pervert. Its all good.

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

EDIT: If it wasn't to clear from my first sentence - anyone that's not part of the Sannin, doesn't come close to Hokage. (IMO)

On that note, I am actually not sure what is the cutoff point in power. One thing that most of the jounins has going for them is that they are still young and if they train intensively, I imagine that they can get much stronger in a short period of time. Hokage-leve? I don't know because it is hard to say exactly what that level is since the requirement seems to just to have "about the strongest in the village".

EPYON

[EbonySeraphim]

Originally Posted by xavier8200

Ebony Seraphin, I dont know if you read the manga but...

Spoiler:

Tsunade has the drive to put others first. She knows what it really means to become Hokage and to make sacrifices

In the end, everyone has their faults, becoming Hokage doesn't mean that you are flawless, you can be a gambling hokage or even a hokage pervert. Its all good.

I read the manga. This thread also has a semi-form of a manga label so I don't think the spoiler tags are necessary in here.

I agree that Tsunade is probably the best qualified for the job, but it isn't as simple as "putting others first" to become Hokage. It may seem like Sarutobi sacraficed himself for the village, but in reality he was protecting the village of something no one else could probably do (other than Jiariya maybe). That is why he died. Simply allowing one's self to die instead of another is foolish unless it works towards a great goal of protection.

I don't know if you watch Kenshin, but for the first part of the story before Kenshin fought Shishio, he was an incomplete fighter. Kenshin was an extremely strong fighter with excellent abilities, and had great motivation to protect those around him. But he had a problem of the hitokiri(assassin) poking out and taking control of him in certain times when he was near death. For that problem, he went to his master again(Hiko Seijuro). During the training his master had to teach him his ougi(succession technique) by threatening Kenshin's life himself. In the process of Hiko Seijuro's approach, Kenshin thought he was going to die and for a moment wondered why he was scared of death. He tried to forcively tell himself that he wasn't afraid of death, and stood strong against his master - basically the hitokiri was acceptant of death. Of course then Kenshin's master went all out and definitely put Kenshin in a situation where he[Kenshin] would die. It was in this process that Kenshin realized he was afraid of death because he wanted to live and that is what he should fight for, and never leave his gaurd down. Why is this important? The act of sacrificing is taken a little too lightly. Basically, standing in front of a bullet is the easy way to save a person from dying, but it shouldn't be done if there are other ways to save both you and the person being protected. Only in the most direful, last ditch effort situations should someone be so willing to just die for a cause. Otherwise, most likely their death will go in vain and they will have not served their purpose.

That was a long story to get that point across. Hopefully it impacted you a little bit though. You should watch Kenshin too >.> My POV is also perhaps a bias towards the ideals that Kenshin(the anime) presents. Naruto's world seems to want to show it differently somewhat and I could just be completely wrong in imposing this belief system on Naruto's world.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

Kenshin for Hokage!

Lol, jokes aside I think Jiraiya would be the next best Hokage. He is always joking and laughing but if you think about it he is the most aware of what is going on. Even though he was living a hermit life, writing dirty novels, he still knew about Akatsuki and the details of its members. Although he did not outright say it, I believe that he knew Naruto would no longer be safe in Kakashi's hands and took it upon himself to teach and protect Naruto, and not only because he had found an "intersting egg"

Spoiler:

While Tsunade is brooding unawares of whats going on outside her "zone", Jiraiya is completely on top of things

I think it is 100% wrong to label him as irresponsible and too care free to be Hokage.
He is only like that superficially. Like I mentioned, you have to acknowledge the fact all the Jounin are completely unawares of brooding threat of the Akatsuki organsiation,--- Jiraiya; a man who does not even have the formal obligations of a Jounin, is monitoring threats towards Konoha.

In my opinion he would be an even better Hokage than any of the remaing candidates. Even ...

Spoiler:

Tsunade

I also get the sneaky suspicion that Oro fears him.

[xavier8200]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

Kenshin for Hokage!



I think it is 100% wrong to label him as irresponsible and too care free to be Hokage.
He is only like that superficially. Like I mentioned, you have to acknowledge the fact all the Jounin are completely unawares of brooding threat of the Akatsuki organsiation,--- Jiraiya; a man who does not even have the formal obligations of a Jounin, is monitoring threats towards Konoha.

In my opinion he would be an even better Hokage than any of the remaing candidates. Even ...

Spoiler:

Tsunade

I also get the sneaky suspicion that Oro fears him.

I totally agrere with you on the fact that Orochimaru may be a little scared of Jiraiya.

And to Mr. Seraphim, I understand what you are saying and I have seen Kenshin a couple of times as well as the OVAs. However, I dont think that I completly conveyed my point in a clear way. What I meant was that becoming Hokage takes a certain degree of sacrifice. Because you are not living for yourself or your immediate family, clan or whatever. You live for the country and the village that you represent. You should check the episode where the previous Hokages were summoned. There was a flashback with the third the first and the second. the first and second basically told Sarutobi (and the viewers of the show) what it means to carry the Hokage name.

I nominate Jiraiya as the next Hokage for the elcetion of 2004. Maybe this should be a poll... don't forget to make sure that all of your votes are counted. Someone may steal office!

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

Lol, jokes aside I think Jiraiya would be the next best Hokage. He is always joking and laughing but if you think about it he is the most aware of what is going on. Even though he was living a hermit life, writing dirty novels, he still knew about Akatsuki and the details of its members. Although he did not outright say it, I believe that he knew Naruto would no longer be safe in Kakashi's hands and took it upon himself to teach and protect Naruto, and not only because he had found an "intersting egg"

Spoiler:

While Tsunade is brooding unawares of whats going on outside her "zone", Jiraiya is completely on top of things

I think it is 100% wrong to label him as irresponsible and too care free to be Hokage.
He is only like that superficially. Like I mentioned, you have to acknowledge the fact all the Jounin are completely unawares of brooding threat of the Akatsuki organsiation,--- Jiraiya; a man who does not even have the formal obligations of a Jounin, is monitoring threats towards Konoha.

In my opinion he would be an even better Hokage than any of the remaing candidates. Even ...

Spoiler:

Tsunade

Yes, Jiraiya would make a decent Hokage if he actually accepts the responsibilities. He hasn't shown the same devotion for the village the other Hokages have because he hasn't been put in the position to. The guy prefers a free and simplistic life style doing what he wants (reminds you of a certain chuunin? XD). While you can call that selfish, it does suit his personality...and why shouldn't Jiraiya be allowed to live happily and carefree after all he has done for the Leaf during the great war period? The guy IS 50 afterall. Also, Jiraiya left the Leaf, but it wasn't "okay, forget being a Leaf ninja--I'm gonna peep ALL day;" he went on his own way to spy on Orochimaru all this time knowing he would one day return to harm the Leaf Village (and of cource taking occasional time off to propel his career as a novelist as well as do "researches"). So you make a good argument; he was still working for the Leaf, just independently and at his own pace in his own way.

Originally Posted by The-Wolf-Of-Mibu

I also get the sneaky suspicion that Oro fears him.

Nah, Oro for some reason doesn't fear Jiraiya at all. Seriously, not at all. He probably considers him a decent opponent that can be a nuisance at best but never as someone who can beat him. Kinda like how the Lakers feel about the Kings.

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by sarcasteak

Nah, Oro for some reason doesn't fear Jiraiya at all. Seriously, not at all. He probably considers him a decent opponent that can be a nuisance at best but never as someone who can beat him. Kinda like how the Lakers feel about the Kings.

Definitely. If you look at the sanin royal rumble, Orochimaru mocked Jiairyai for being pathetic and unable to fight yet again because he is indecent (drunk).

EPYON

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

True, but those flashbacks were like the earlier Naruto/Sasuke days. Back when Naruto was being tied to posts and Sasuke thought he was a loser.

Jiraiya who has striking behavioural simliartiy to Naruto, mustve have grown tremendously.
Just the way, we see Sasuke is acknowledging Naruto's stregth and even in awe of it, I belive Oro mustve grown tremendous respect for Jiraiya and his ablities over the time they knew each other.

He may not outright fear him, but he definitely respects him. He does not see him as someone to take lightly.

[CaSe-]

Originally Posted by epyon96

Definitely. If you look at the sanin royal rumble, Orochimaru mocked Jiairyai for being pathetic and unable to fight yet again because he is indecent (drunk).

EPYON

But its probably like the relationship Naruto has to Sasuke, maybe Orochimaru wont admit it, and probably wouldnt due to a superiority complex towards Jiraiya.

[EbonySeraphim]

In my opinion, Jiariya was more severly capped in that battle than most people think. For him to not be able to summon a decent sized toad showed that he was definitely no where up to his par. After watching ANBU Naruto 83, Itachi and Kisame agree that at best, they could take down Jiariya together but they would both die. The reason why they showed him screwing up the way he did was more so preserving the previous relationship between the three that were fighting once again. In the past Orochimaru was the genius while Jiariya was the person who would alway mess up. In reality though, Jiariya is more accomplished than Orochimaru since their past and he can reliably drawn upon his full strength when needed. In a one on one fight in fact, I would think he could beat Orochimaru (with arms). In the interest of balancing and entertainment, having Jiariya capped allowed for the fight to occur. Otherwise having two 100 percent Sannin vs one is quite an obvious battle. Instead they now had a situation where the weakest Sannin(battle-wise it seems Tsunade is the weakest) and the strongest Sannin(Jiariya) severly handicapped, vs another Sannin handicapped. Sure Orochimaru had no arms to use jutsu, but Jiariya was so drunk and unable to control his chakra to use decent jutsu reliably. It also effected his taijutsu and general mobility.

I also think that Orochimaru doesn't fear Jiariya. I think that the reason for this is just because of ignorance and lack of caring for someone who was once a dropout. If he ever saw Jiariya in full strength, he would probably recognize that he couldn't win a normal and fair fight against him. I don't know exactly when the Sannin stopped seeing each other, but it was obviously before Jiariya took a leap forward in terms of power and ability.

All that text and nothing really changes from my original argument.

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by CaSe-

But its probably like the relationship Naruto has to Sasuke, maybe Orochimaru wont admit it, and probably wouldnt due to a superiority complex towards Jiraiya.

I don't think me and Sarcastik were claiming anything about strength, we just agreed that Orochimaru does not fear Jiairyai.

And you are right, it is probably because of their childhood experiences together.

EPYON

[sarcasteak]

Yes, it might be a case of denial or drastic underestimation, but Orochimaru didn't show fear of Jiraiya EVEN WITHOUT HIS FRIGGIN' ARMS. That is massive dissin' no matter how you look at it. ^_^;;

Originally Posted by epyon96

I don't think me and Sarcastik were claiming anything about strength, we just agreed that Orochimaru does not fear Jiairyai.

And you are right, it is probably because of their childhood experiences together.

Thanks for clarifying for me as well. Yes, we said Oro simply didn't show fear to Jiraiya, not "Oro has seen Jiraiya's true strength and thinks Jiraiya sucks like a newbie."

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

In my opinion, Jiariya was more severly capped in that battle than most people think. For him to not be able to summon a decent sized toad showed that he was definitely no where up to his par.

That is not just your opinion; that is a fact. ^_^

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

The reason why they showed him screwing up the way he did was more so preserving the previous relationship between the three that were fighting once again.

Yah...every one of the Sannin had to have a handicap at that battle for things to be "fair" or Oro would've been screwed.

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

In the past Orochimaru was the genius while Jiariya was the person who would alway mess up. In reality though, Jiariya is more accomplished than Orochimaru since their past and he can reliably drawn upon his full strength when needed.

I don't agree with this speculation of yours. "In reality?" How would you know? Oro was only bested by Yondaime, and not necessarily for overall strength.

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

I also think that Orochimaru doesn't fear Jiariya. I think that the reason for this is just because of ignorance and lack of caring for someone who was once a dropout. If he ever saw Jiariya in full strength, he would probably recognize that he couldn't win a normal and fair fight against him. I don't know exactly when the Sannin stopped seeing each other, but it was obviously before Jiariya took a leap forward in terms of power and ability.

But the Sannin were comrades who fought together during the great war period and were hailed as the greatest; Oro probably already has seen and recognized Jiraiya's strength back then, but like I said, he NEVER felt threatened by Jiraiya. There is a difference.

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim

I don't know exactly when the Sannin stopped seeing each other, but it was obviously before Jiariya took a leap forward in terms of power and ability.

I don't think it has to be that way.

Sasuke still treats Naruto like drop-out (mocking him and whatnot) despite having seen his kyubified power. I think the childhood, "you're a loser" kind of attitude will always stay with you.

EPYON

[sarcasteak]

Originally Posted by epyon96

I don't think it has to be that way.

Sasuke still treats Naruto like drop-out (mocking him and whatnot) despite having seen his kyubified power. I think the childhood, "you're a loser" kind of attitude will always stay with you.

Oh no, I think in Sasuke's case, he clearly sensed inferiority and stayed in denial.

[The-Wolf-Of-Mibu]

As a testement to Jiraiya's strength he openly declares that if

Spoiler:

Tsunade ever betrayed the leaf, he would kill her.

Tsunade takes that threat seriously and shows no indication that she doubts him possible.

Oro does not think lightly of Jiraiya. He has great respect for him but as mentioned its like the sasuke-naruto complex. Hes in denial and always looks down on Jiraiya. On top of that Oro does not have the the amount of humble potential that Sasuke has, becasue hes ... Oro.

[pyu]

Hardly, Orochimaru is an experienced fighter - he would know that showing fear in front of such a strong opponent would mean putting himself at a severe disadvantage. In fact, I personally think that the display Oro puts up was simply a facade in order not to be at a disadvantage. Hell, he even needed Kabuto's aid in using the summoning jutsu.

Besides, he probably has sparred with Jiraiya countless times and probably knows enough about his former teammate's fighting techniques and styles that he would be confident that he wouldn't be slaughtered even in his weakened state.

Just a query - if I remembered correctly, Jiraiya wasn't drunk. He was drugged by Tsunade.

Do remember Jiraiya in the manga is can be very intimidating if he wanted too - of course, Tsunade wasn't scared by his "I will kill you" act.

As for Hokage material, he would have to command respect from the villagers - at this stage, the only viable choice from the younger generation would be Kakashi. Jiraiya had already turned down the offer and probably would turn it down again unless he feels there is no one more suitable for the task.

But I think Tsunade will be hanging around for some time - for about ten to fifteen years if she is the same age as Jiraiya....

By the way, what do you guys think about her 'youthful-appearance' jutsu? Is it a side-effect of that regeneration jutsu or is it just plain vanity? They never explained it in the manga...