(L) Mushoku Tensei: Isekai Ittara Honki Dasu (Jobless Reincarnation)

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

^ We'll see, I guess.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

And Obelisk, while I think I understand your complaint, I can't say that Eris fits that bill at all. I've seen plenty of those sorts of cousins and little/big sister types, and they have nothing in common with Eris aside from their being relatives to some degree, whether legally or biologically. She does kind of fit the tsundere archetype for now, but even there she's done well enough to stand well as her own character.

You mean her fists did well enough for her to stand as her own character .
No seriously, Never seen a tsundere who'd push the younger MC down to beat him up, as if she was the MC of a delinquent manga.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

i think they are third cousins as in Paul's father is the cousin of eris grandfather.
seeing all that people calling rudy an op mc first and we have witnessed him getting beaten by paul and now some random bandits, plus its obvious ghyslaine is stronger.
that battle animation was pretty cool particularly ghis sword technique. i avoided the sword style explanation that was skipper from the novel and it was correct that they did it that way so they could do the explanations more naturally instead of info dumping, i like that.
and eris ground and pound was great i am happy the mad dog is finally here.

Paul beat him in a sneak attack and had trouble even with that. The bandits beat him because he was't trying to kill them and lacked experience in battle. Compare how he blew his room up with some of his early water bolt experiments with the tiny specs he threw at the kidnappers. If he had gone full bore they would have been scraping them off the walls of the alleyway.

[SeijiSensei]

Paul has always been scum when it comes to women, and i think Zenith knew that about him before they married. Ghislaine tells Rudeus to send the letter to Zenith, and Rudy promptly agrees!

Having no expectations that Paul would be faithful may have helped Zenith accept Lilia and child into their household. It's just another of those painful things that come along with Paul.

How do Paul and Zenith support their family? They have a little garden but don't seem to be hauling loads of tomatoes to the marketplace. Paul spends a lot of time swinging his sword each day, not really a money-making endeavor either. Yet in the episode when Rudy asks to get job, the dialogue suggests the Greyrat family is doing well enough. Maybe the state pays Paul an income just for being a knight?

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Paul has always been scum when it comes to women, and i think Zenith knew that about him before they married. Ghislaine tells Rudeus to send the letter to Zenith, and Rudy promptly agrees!

Having no expectations that Paul would be faithful may have helped Zenith accept Lilia and child into their household. It's just another of those painful things that come along with Paul.

How do Paul and Zenith support their family? They have a little garden but don't seem to be hauling loads of tomatoes to the marketplace. Paul spends a lot of time swinging his sword each day, not really a money-making endeavor either. Yet in the episode when Rudy asks to get job, the dialogue suggests the Greyrat family is doing well enough. Maybe the state pays Paul an income just for being a knight?

Paul is the lord of the area around his house.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Not sure why he needed Gislaine to save him though. All that was necessary was a shield... But maybe earth magic doesn't work in the air.
He could have also just used wind to push the sword away. It's not magic, it's just a sword style.

And yeah... Even Paul's cousin seems to be wary of a child of Paul's near his daughter

Did it looked like he had enough time to create shield? And at that distance, not even actual hurricane would push it away. In first place as mage he would obviously loose to swordsman because magic is inferior to equivalent level of sword technique, so no it is not "just" sword style.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Frontier

This "Jobless Reincarnation" has finally landed its protagonist an actual job .

I'm guessing Paul was not expecting that letter to get read right in-front of Ghislaine, who he basically insults by calling her nothing but a musclehead woman (not that there's anything wrong with a woman with some great muscles, as Ghislaine shows off so well), and confessing Ghislaine was one of his "conquests," not that she's proud of it. Yeah, I can't wait until Zenith reads that letter .

Saying the noble girl is okay but to lay off his former woman? Yeah, that sounds like advice Paul would give .

I guess it is probably good for both Rudy and Sylphie to learn to stand on their own without each other, but being separated for so long with no warning is probably going to be tough .

They cut a lot from the letter. It was very much was meant to be read in front of Ghislaine. It started with a bad joke about by the time you read this I will no longer be in this world and Rudy notes while it explains the situation it also seems to have been written in a way to repeatedly get a rise out of her. He did explain Eris had run off several home tutors. He also explained that he can't come home or write letters for 5 years because of how dependent Sylphy had become on him and as shown he was getting dependent on her too. After which he did see that it was becoming unhealthy for her.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

If the redhead still doesn't learn anything even after this event, then she probably deserve a harsher treatment.

I think she definitely learned from the incident, I just don't see the need to accept a kidnapper beating up a child as necessary and I don't think that was her overall takeaway from what happened.

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Paul has always been scum when it comes to women, and i think Zenith knew that about him before they married. Ghislaine tells Rudeus to send the letter to Zenith, and Rudy promptly agrees!

Having no expectations that Paul would be faithful may have helped Zenith accept Lilia and child into their household. It's just another of those painful things that come along with Paul.

I think Zenith definitely had expectations or at least wanted to believe Paul would be faithful otherwise she wouldn't have been as upset about what happened with Lilia as she was. She wasn't resigned, she was outright angry that he betrayed her like that.

Originally Posted by kagato3

They cut a lot from the letter. It was very much was meant to be read in front of Ghislaine. It started with a bad joke about by the time you read this I will no longer be in this world and Rudy notes while it explains the situation it also seems to have been written in a way to repeatedly get a rise out of her. He did explain Eris had run off several home tutors. He also explained that he can't come home or write letters for 5 years because of how dependent Sylphy had become on him and as shown he was getting dependent on her too. After which he did see that it was becoming unhealthy for her.

So he had a contingency in place in case they planned to mail the letter back to Zenith .

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by kagato3

They cut a lot from the letter. It was very much was meant to be read in front of Ghislaine. It started with a bad joke about by the time you read this I will no longer be in this world and Rudy notes while it explains the situation it also seems to have been written in a way to repeatedly get a rise out of her. He did explain Eris had run off several home tutors. He also explained that he can't come home or write letters for 5 years because of how dependent Sylphy had become on him and as shown he was getting dependent on her too. After which he did see that it was becoming unhealthy for her.

exactly this was just paul goof personality and making some jokes, again anime make some changes which make some peoples don't get proper the context of what it really wanted to means.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I think she definitely learned from the incident, I just don't see the need to accept a kidnapper beating up a child as necessary and I don't think that was her overall takeaway from what happened.

I see it as fate or karma paying her back for all the abuse she has done to others all at once. At least now she knows how it feels to be on the receiving end of real violence before she becomes an even worse person.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I see it as fate or karma paying her back for all the abuse she has done to others all at once. At least now she knows how it feels to be on the receiving end of real violence before she becomes an even worse person.

See, I just don't see it as justified karma in that sense. For all her actions I don't feel like she really deserved what happened to her.

If anything was karmic it was having to rely on Rudy and him emphasize how much she needs to learn, which he'll be applying as her tutor.

[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by Frontier

See, I just don't see it as justified karma in that sense. For all her actions I don't feel like she really deserved what happened to her.

Tsunderes have been around for a decade before Mushoku Tensei, and thus the norms are established. Even by the looser norms we judge NACG tsunderes by, a clearly older kid physically beating up a somewhat bookish looking 7 year old crosses the line. If anything, it is only how badly she was treated by the criminals that help bring her back into salvageability, and I suspect the author wrote it that way for precisely that end.

[Tenzen12]

Eris has clearly issues with her character, but I seriously don't think kid fight is something so horrendous to make her unsalvageable without serious abuse. She needs literally only one thing to be redeemed and that's stop beating people.

[thundrakkon]

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Originally Posted by Frontier

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I think the beating up is more of a wake-up call. As in, she won't always be getting things her way, and the world is a very dangerous place. Not everyone will be giving in to her excess behavior, nor will extremely dangerous people care.


Now was this necessary? Maybe or maybe not. There are not many ways to show how dangerous the world is to a spoiled brat like that who is unwilling to learn anything without putting her in actual danger. Even after getting beaten up, she still didn't care and was not afraid at that moment. Her selfishness was all that mattered to her, until the very last second.

[Tenzen12]

I doubt either side of argument actually disagree with that. If it helps her grow it's good it happened, but whether she "deserved" it or that "her transgression is so bad nothing less would be enough to make up for it" is completely different matter.

After all kids aren't punished to get back on them or out of sense of justice but to make sure they grow into proper adults.

[Tuor]

Keep in mind that Eris is a noble who *doesn't know how to read*, let alone knows any math. This is... extremely problematic, to say the least. Her father seems to be so desperate to get her a tutor that she'll accept that he went along with Rudy's plan and endangered his daughter.

As for why they didn't interfere when Rudy first met Eris: the whole point was to see how they interacted. For one thing, they learned that Rudy doesn't like hitting girls (or even slapping them). And they learned that he *did* have the ability to get out of danger if necessary.

I don't think that Eris *deserved* to be beat as badly as she was beaten by the kidnapper, but she *needed* to be shown the ramifications of her previous decisions, like not learning to read or magic, like acting like people will necessarily listen to you just because your grandfather is important. This was the heart of the plan, so the plan did, technically, work. It didn't go as it was supposed to go, but the goals were achieved, and as an added benefit, Rudy learned some important things as well, and also showed some character development.

This was a pretty good episode, IMO. I think the series overall is worth watching.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Frontier

See, I just don't see it as justified karma in that sense. For all her actions I don't feel like she really deserved what happened to her.

If anything was karmic it was having to rely on Rudy and him emphasize how much she needs to learn, which he'll be applying as her tutor.

Relying on Rudy can also be part of the karma.

Now, if she isn't an idiot or a vile child, the violence done to her should taught her that....

1. Violence hurts (duh)
2. Not everyone will tolerate her shit & the world can be a dangerous place.
3. She is not independent out there. She needs others' help.
4. Her action has consequences. The people that she hurt can fight back......with interest.

....and learn from that to be a better person.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Paul has always been scum when it comes to women, and i think Zenith knew that about him before they married. Ghislaine tells Rudeus to send the letter to Zenith, and Rudy promptly agrees!

Having no expectations that Paul would be faithful may have helped Zenith accept Lilia and child into their household. It's just another of those painful things that come along with Paul.

How do Paul and Zenith support their family? They have a little garden but don't seem to be hauling loads of tomatoes to the marketplace. Paul spends a lot of time swinging his sword each day, not really a money-making endeavor either. Yet in the episode when Rudy asks to get job, the dialogue suggests the Greyrat family is doing well enough. Maybe the state pays Paul an income just for being a knight?

The surrounding area is most likely his fief. Which makes it pretty funny that that one lady actually dared to complain to him about her son's blue eye. And even more that someone dared to attack the knight's kid.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Did it looked like he had enough time to create shield? And at that distance, not even actual hurricane would push it away. In first place as mage he would obviously loose to swordsman because magic is inferior to equivalent level of sword technique, so no it is not "just" sword style.

It looked like he had ample time, yeah.
And no, a Hurricane wouldn't push it, because both of them would get caught in the whirl, flying into the same direction all over again.
A directed attack on the other hand...

[GDB]

I think the manga described it more as he's the Knight that's stationed in the town to protect it, rather than being the Lord of the town itself.

It'd make more sense with the way the villagers acted.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

The surrounding area is most likely his fief. Which makes it pretty funny that that one lady actually dared to complain to him about her son's blue eye. And even more that someone dared to attack the knight's kid.

She was doing it so she had a reason to talk with Paul. The novel notes Rudy noticed that she was trying to hit on him, and badly at that, and the kid was getting more and more embarrassed being drug there after any minor injury to the point that was the reason the fighting stopped.