A cruel incident.

[Scrumhalf]

Thought I should share this story with you guys...

This happened last night. It may be shocking for some of you, so if you are overly sensitive; it'd be best not to continue - a tad graphical. For the rest of you, I will share to you the true (yet saddening) tale that happened.

Now where do I begin? It started at around 7pm last night. I was craving for a usual dose of Stella at the local pub with my woman. While my girlfriend and I were walking down the street; we spotted at least five 13-15 year old kids surrounding a tree, laughing at something. I wondered what was going on, so I went closer to have a look...

On the tree, tied by barbed wire, was a rat (or what looked like one... you couldn't tell if it was one because it was covered in blood, and was sort of mutliated).
The rat had his toenails and ears clipped off... the poor thing was squealing in pain with terror in his eyes, and from the look of the kids' faces, they were enjoying it (sadistic pricks).
So I intervened and took action. I picked up & threw the little maggot who had the large clippers into the concrete ground, hard. The kid had no idea what hit him. I tell you, I was fuming... I nearly smashed him to a bloody pulp. My girlfriend had to restrain me, otherwise I would've hurt him very badly.
So this dropkick and his queer little pack of mates ran off, apparently screaming in fear that if they had stayed, I would've started to nail every one of them. And there, strapped to the tree with barbed wire cutting into his fur, was the rat... still squealing in pain. I did the right thing and put him out of his misery.

One can wonder how some of today's youth could be so cruel and enjoying every moment of it...

There concludes my tale. I'm still very upset at the aftermath. How can someone enjoy this sort of cruelty, and laugh at it?

Thoughts?

Scrum

[Prince of Chronics]

It's just the way things are... some people just like that sort of thing... some kids don't really know any better... plus there's a good chance that a lot of kids have become desensitised to violence/cruelty... I doubt they would be "enjoying every moment of it" if they were placed in a situation like that... it sounds pretty shitty... even for a rat...

[CaSe-]

Originally Posted by Prince of Chronics

It's just the way things are... some people just like that sort of thing... some kids don't really know any better... plus there's a good chance that a lot of kids have become desensitised to violence/cruelty... I doubt they would be "enjoying every moment of it" if they were placed in a situation like that... it sounds pretty shitty... even for a rat...

The problem with society is that nobody blames the kids. "They dont know any better" or "blame it on films/music/tv/computergames/socialworkers"

Some of them are just evil bastards, and should be taught a lesson.

Look at the bulger murderors!

[Sonhex]

I commend your action, Scrum, this sort of thing makes my blood boil too, any cruelty to defenceless animals especially for some sick form of entertainment is dispicable.

As for the 'don't blame the kids' rhetoric, well that's just the kind of misplaced PC rubbish clueless people spew these days. Decent kids who are brought up in a decent enviroment don't do these kind of things, they know it's wrong and have the nonce to steer themselves from this kind of evil curiosity that apparently is acceptable to some parents. Unfortunately their parents probably did this kind of thing when they were young and see it as just 'kids being kids'.

But it's the way of the world, and like CaSe- some of them are just plain evil and deserve a slap. If the parents won'd do it then some one should...

[Killerattacks]

Wouldnt it have been wiser to call the police or to just speak with them? Self-administrated justice isn't any better than what those idiots did IMHO.

[CaSe-]

Originally Posted by Killerattacks

Wouldnt it have been wiser to call the police or to just speak with them? Self-administrated justice isn't any better than what those idiots did IMHO.

The problem why most kids are out of control, is because they are basically invincible now. You hit a kid, you get prosicuted, if kids perform a crime, they get a slap on the wrist.

They need to be put back into their place

[_Sin_]

I guess I'm the first one to say this but I generally don't see children torturing animals as (for the lack of a better word) too bad. Neither can you generalize that kids are desensitized by video games just with that.
Curiousity is a human trait as is the desire to feel superior. Heck, when I was a kid I burned the legs of a spider one by one to see how much/how it would move afterwards and I don't think that I am sardistic or wicked now - on the contrary (at least I like to think that). For the record: I played a game called Match Pairs on my Amiga 500 before I did that so you can't say that video games are desensitizing children - unless you put match pairs on the same level as Doom³

You can hardly draw the conclusion that someone who killed/tortured a rat will become an aggressive adult or what not later on. It's all in the nature of humans and people started to frown upon this kind of behaviour pretty late on on the history of men. How come that the gladiator matches were not frowned upon by the Roman population? Probably because they lacked the education and our morals - comparable to kids I'd say.
Let them mature and they will stop doing that like I did and assumingly a lot of other people as well.

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

So I intervened and took action. I picked up & threw the little maggot who had the large clippers into the concrete ground, hard. The kid had no idea what hit him. I tell you, I was fuming... I nearly smashed him to a bloody pulp. My girlfriend had to restrain me, otherwise I would've hurt him very badly.

I don't think that punishing violence with violence is the way to go.

[Necrodeath]

Originally Posted by _Sin_

I don't think that punishing violence with violence is the way to go.

Then what should he have done? Picked a daisy that was growing somewhere and give it to him with the lines: "And never do it again, ok?"
Nowadays, if you try to lecture a kid, you'll get laughed at...
IMO he did the right thing.

[Sonhex]

The problem is if a kid such as this is not educated to the fact that torturing a living creature is wrong what's to stop him moving on to a cat next, then a dog...perhaps another kid. The end result, as CaSe- said is something horrific like the murder of James Bulger, where the murderers were simply 'curious' to see what would happen if you put a toddler on a railway line.

If a kid shows signs of malicious behaviour he or she needs to be given the appropriate lessons in responsability. How many people who saw the same incident as Scrum just ignored it, or simply satisfied themselves it wasn't worth the trouble because 'it's just a rat' or 'it's just kids'.

Sure not all kids who do these kind of things will become serial killers, but when society turns a blind eye to these incidents it inadvertantly helps to create monsters that may end up commiting worse crimes against animals and even people.

[_Sin_]

Originally Posted by Necrodeath

Then what should he have done? Picked a daisy that was growing somewhere and give it to him with the lines: "And never do it again, ok?"
Nowadays, if you try to lecture a kid, you'll get laughed at...
IMO he did the right thing.

Ah, right. I guess they will never ever do something like this because they got hit by Scrumhalf? Do you really think that? They will just be more cautious while "playing" with the rat next time.

I'm not saying that Scrumhalf should have ignored them but frightening them should have been enough (I think that's would have been easy for him since he is a rugby player ^_^). I know that this wouldn't have prevented them from doing this again and again but neither would have beating the kid to a pulp.

Educating children does not happen from one day to another but takes some time and is the job of the parents and the school (hell, even of the religion).

Originally Posted by Sonhex

The problem is if a kid such as this is not educated to the fact that torturing a living creature is wrong what's to stop him moving on to a cat next, then a dog...perhaps another kid. The end result, as CaSe- said is something horrific like the murder of James Bulger, where the murderers were simply 'curious' to see what would happen if you put a toddler on a railway line.

I'm afraid I do not of the Jame Bulger incident but I'm pretty sure that this is an extreme rare case of curiousity. Usually kids can distinguish between animals and humans (partly because they know they will be punished if they hurt humans) so I don't think they will go from torturing rats, to cats, to dogs and eventually humans

[Grona]

Sonhex hit the nail on the head (which incidently would of done some good to do the same to the kid) in saying that most likely if they like it they wont stop with animals. I thought you lived in the us when I read this, its disheatening to hear this happens down under too.

You should of put the fear of god in them though, maybe pretend you were going to go after their fingers with the clippers. They're probly laughing about the whole thing if they are garbage like that, over you not doing anything.

hope you kept the clippers though

I'm afraid I do not of the Jame Bulger incident but I'm pretty sure that this is an extreme rare case of curiousity. Usually kids can distinguish between animals and humans (partly because they know they will be punished if they hurt humans) so I don't think they will go from torturing rats, to cats, to dogs and eventually humans

[Sonhex]

Originally Posted by _Sin_

...


I'm afraid I do not of the Jame Bulger incident but I'm pretty sure that this is an extreme rare case of curiousity. Usually kids can distinguish between animals and humans (partly because they know they will be punished if they hurt humans) so I don't think they will go from torturing rats, to cats, to dogs and eventually humans

I disagree wholeheartedly with that, malicious kids or those with criminal intent, are more likely to escalate their curiosity, especially when they get away with it or think they're invincible because people turn a blind eye. If a kid has a lack of respect for the life of a rat, cat or dog what's to stop them seeing a human life as lacking in equal worth.

I'm not an expert on serial killers, but a simple search on Google tells me Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer both tortured animals and these kinds of people start off at 'low level' torture in the history of their crimes. Okay this is taking the arguement to the extremes, but you get my point.

Incidently, the Bulger case is etched into the minds of a lot of Brits, simply because it is so horrific. Moreso because the perpetrators of the crime were kids themselves.

[Baba]

Originally Posted by Sonhex

I disagree wholeheartedly with that, malicious kids or those with criminal intent, are more likely to escalate their curiosity, especially when they get away with it or think they're invincible because people turn a blind eye. If a kid has a lack of respect for the life of a rat, cat or dog what's to stop them seeing a human life as lacking in equal worth.

I'm not an expert on serial killers, but a simple search on Google tells me Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer both tortured animals and these kinds of people start off at 'low level' torture in the history of their crimes. Okay this is taking the arguement to the extremes, but you get my point.

Incidently, the Bulger case is etched into the minds of a lot of Brits, simply because it is so horrific. Moreso because the perpetrators of the crime were kids themselves.

Well, I'll just add my two cents to this discusion, first off by saying that if I don't condone the use of violence by scrumhalf, I fully understand his reaction as I would probably have done much the same.
As to wether the use o violence made a stronger impressions on the kids than an appropriate verbal trashing, it's hard to tell as it really depends on the kids and their education so far.
What I'd like to comment about is the fact that contrary to what some of you have said, this kind of action has been quite common for as long as our history dates back too. And no it does not always lead to criminal intnent, although I guess it does mark a certain lack of sensitivity that the child may retain as an adult (ie no regard for the other, but an understanding of the law and the consequences of one actions). I guess it's just a sad truth about the human mind that cruelty does seem to fascinate some of us. And as a sidenote, I don't think curiosity has anything to do with it, in my opinion this is more a mtterer of being able to exert total authority over another living being (be in control, be the master, this kind o f things).....

[Serendipity]

I cannot get over how insensitive a lot of people are these days. I know that I could never hurt an animal, especially seeing they have just as much right to be on this planet as we do...

I am very sorry that you had to witness that.

And I agree with Sonhex's statement as well... very true.. kids like that obviously have no discipline. What the hell were their parents thinking??

[Necrodeath]

Originally Posted by Baba

[...]
And as a sidenote, I don't think curiosity has anything to do with it, in my opinion this is more a matter of being able to exert total authority over another living being (be in control, be the master, this kind of things).....

Those kind of people should try playing some games....Like manhunt or something :/
And I wholeheartedly agree with this:

Originally Posted by Sonhex

I disagree wholeheartedly with that, malicious kids or those with criminal intent, are more likely to escalate their curiosity, especially when they get away with it or think they're invincible because people turn a blind eye. If a kid has a lack of respect for the life of a rat, cat or dog what's to stop them seeing a human life as lacking in equal worth.

I'm not an expert on serial killers, but a simple search on Google tells me Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer both tortured animals and these kinds of people start off at 'low level' torture in the history of their crimes. Okay this is taking the arguement to the extremes, but you get my point.

Incidently, the Bulger case is etched into the minds of a lot of Brits, simply because it is so horrific. Moreso because the perpetrators of the crime were kids themselves.

And _Sin_, I never wanted Scrumhalf to beat the kids into a pulp or something, but just talking doesn't seem like enough nowadays...

[Superchop]

I'm not so much a person of violence..so i'll try to avoid any kind of fight as much as i could...but when it comes to kids these types of kids i believe that what Scrumhalf did wasn't all that bad...if i was in his situation i "might've" done the same thing (although like i said i'd try to avoid physical violence unless i had to)

Kids have no respect for nearly anything these days...i don't blame tv, video games, music or anything like that...what i do blame is bad parenting...it doesn't take much...just 1 bad parent is enough to corrupt the minds of so many kids...cause peer pressure does go a very long way...and of course nearly everyone wants to be "the bad boy" so they all more or less copy one another...the kid that Scrumhalf attacked was probably the one and only kid that had come up with the idea to torture the rat while everyone else not wanting to be shunned by the group played along and just went with it...

Now i don't agree on attacking the whole group...but i'm sure that the kids got the message when they saw their friend go down...

[Tzurial]

I used to hear about animal cruelty all the time when I was little.. kids had cut dogs ears off, threw cinder blocks at cats, buried puppies. And if you sit in front of the lazy animals at the zoo long enough like I do, there's always a pack of kids who comes by to throw rocks at it, complaining it doesnt move. Whether it's videogames or parents or "human nature" that causes them to be shitheads, I don't care. Scrumhalf did more for that rat then I could, and I commend him!

[Baba]

Originally Posted by Serendipity

And I agree with Sonhex's statement as well... very true.. kids like that obviously have no discipline. What the hell were their parents thinking??

I have to disagree with that. THat they have bad education is quite obvious, but that they lack discipline is another matter altogether. As I've said earlier, this kind of behavior can easly result from an over disciplinarian education. Kids that have been disciplined too much often seek an outlet for their own frustration and so take it out on, for instance, younger siblings, animals or classmates (ie become bullys).
To ilustrate my point, I'll take the exemple of old style british boarding schools as they existed about a century ago. You can't get mcuh more discipline as kids were given in those place (including of course corporal punishmen), and guess what, bullying was ripe in those days (and tolerated) with acts commited on other boys that could easly be discribed as torture. As it turns out, these bullys often became respected members of socitey and not psychotic murderers.

[HopelessLover]

That story reminds me of how my mom wanted me to catch a little tiny mouse that was running around the house. I didn't really think twice about catching the "dirty little mouse". But after I cuaght it with the sticky mouse catching thing I bought from the store, it was making these weird yelping noises like it was trying to get help.

Well in the end I felt very sorry for the mouse, and I realized that it really wasn't bothering any one. All it was doing was eating up the roachs and garbage we drop on the floor, which was actually help full for us.

Awell, I guess people can be weird some times like that.

[DekaMaster]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

Thoughts?

Scrum

You proved you could be just as bad as they are.