Marimite S2 Ep.13 END (official thread)

[Proto]

Nah, by now about 3-4 chinese subs must be out, in that case you can get them from emule...

[Lyca]

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

Nah, by now about 3-4 chinese subs must be out, in that case you can get them from emule...

Thx for the tip about to watch epp 13 now

[Sweets Yumi]

To me, Sachiko doesn't even care about Yumi. She just uses her.

She used her to get out of the play, is where it started. Then she brings Yumi to tears when during valentines, because Yumi had (seemed to be) avoiding her, then does the same thing herself this season!!!

And Yumi tried to confront her, and Sachiko said "Don't make me angry" or something like that, and (in a way) kicks Yumi into the gutter.

Then she doesn't eat so Yumi will come NOW. Now is when you come Yumi, you come when I say. I'm the master of this relationship, don't try to step over the line! (That's how she seems to me) She could have easily asked Yumi for help way before, and if she's too proud to ask for help, Yumi HAD come to her, but Sachiko blew her off.

She just seems to me plain uncaring. How has she become such a classic character?

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

Well if you consider yourself a fan then give the series a chance to the very end... then you could rightfully say you didnt like it instead of relying on hunches ^^ ...

I'd like to watch it, but I can't handle bad people very well. (At least people who I see as bad) Like that whole Sei+Erika+Yuko episode, that made my stop watching for a time (and I decided to just read happenings to avoid those scenes anymore)

It's funny cause I LOVE Oniisama e... and who could have been abused more than Rei? But I loved her character so much, I seemed to be able to look past it. And enjoy the show. That may be why... I don't Love anyone from Marimite, just like some more than others. I especially like Tsutako and Minako! I wish there was more of them. ^__^ But I do like the whole soroity setting and sisters and all that. And nothing kooky ever happens at Lillian. Aliens don't show up or anything weird. It is just like a true to life tale. And I know (seemingly) bad people exist in life, so they have to be there (just like at Seiran) but for some reason, i just don't want them there! Not at Lillian. I want Lillian to be basically happy.

Maybe that's why I am so let down....

Originally Posted by ProtoMan

Would you actually like this series if everyone was a goodie doodie and nothing ever happened ^^

For me it would! ^__^ *hee* Maybe it's my age, but I love a happy cheery tale of kindness and sweetness and fun. ^__^

Originally Posted by kj1980

...or better yet, read the novel (assumption you cannot read Japanese taken into consideration).

No, I can't read or speak Japanese, which is sad when you learn that I own all the novels >__> My father has bought me the novels, mangas and Drama CDs. He's even got me a little green book that tells kanji and a Pimplser Japanese language course, but I'm too lazy to look into it. (I'm so wasteful -_-)

Originally Posted by Shigan

Yumi and Sachiko however, as strong and superior as Sachiko is, the both of them are *heavily* dependent on each other.

*hee* And I don't see Sachiko dependant at all. It's funny how people can see the same event and go away with 1,000 different ideas of what they just saw. ^_~

[Proto]

Then you should see up to chapter 13 if what you want to see is

mild spoiler

Spoiler:

Shachiko crawling towards Yumi (it's just a metaphore ^^)

But seriously speaking, maybe your opinion of Sachiko will just hit bottom rock, but you will grow more fond of Yumy

[Shigan]

Not-so mild spoiler

Spoiler:

I think crawling is overdoing it a bit, but yeah ^^ Sachiko thought that Yumi standing there was a dream so she reached for her and upon realizing that she was physical embraces her.

My favorite line in that part gotta be when Yumi calls her Oneesama and Sachiko replies: "You still want to call me that don't you?" meaning more or less that she's glad that Yumi still considers her her grand souer, despite what they have gone through.

But then, rose-xplosion just had to ruin it after Sachiko finally got the words out...-_- go animators.

And yeah, my image of Sachiko really dropped during the last couple of episodes, just to make a climb back at the end. The most important aspect of this arc was for Yumi to develope some spine really, Sachiko's incompetence to handle their relation there more or less *finally* left Yumi on her own to develope a few personal thoughts aside from her Oneesama. And for chrissake, that was what she absolutely needed, you may love her sweet self or not , but she is the one who in lesser than one year is to be Rosa Chinesis. A job where some indenpendence is needed.

And honestly, if you don't call Sachiko dependant, then what is she? Cuddle-grubby?

[LucifersGirl]

I wonder if it a little late to add to this, but I'm new to the board and just stumple on this and have something to add..

Originally Posted by SleeplessHeart
After watching it several times (nobody is perfect...):

Spoiler:

for One annoying story's logic that keep poking me:

While everyone remembers that Yumi and Sachiko are soeurs, some have forgotten that Sachiko and Youko are soeurs too. It seems that Youko's visit did not manage to encourage Sachiko to go on with her life. Does it mean that their relationship is much weaker than Sachiko-Yumi relationship?

Originally Posted by Orm_Irian

Spoiler for Sort-of Youko analysis and a bit of historical analogy...:

The relationship between two soeurs is not exactly meant to be romantic. The soeur ideal is probably close to the purified Classic Greek ideal of elder-youth interaction.


(begin longish historical rant....)


The elder offers counsel, training, protection and shares experience, while the youth follows his/her example and offers help, relief. Bodily and sexual gratification, in contrast to the common perception, was NOT required. (In fact, in Plato's books, it seems that celibacy and moderation in the expression of sexual desire was praised).
The elder/youth relationship was not restricted to males only. In the archaic period , especially in Sparta and the Aegean Islands (which kept intact many matriarchic traditions) women were expected to follow this pattern of relationships. Do I have to refer to Sappho, here? In fact, if we take into context some ancient historians and poets, she was rather the rule than the exception


(...end longish historical rant)

In fact, from my watching of the anime, it seems that the relationship between Youko and Sachiko is the pure soeur relationship as it was proper and intended to be: The elder sister acts as a mentor, adviser and confidante while the younger supports and helps her (and offers ego boost in the form of admiration ). I take it that their becoming soeurs was a thing well thought, well-discussed and even calculated, unburdened by excessive emotion. (I may be extremely wrong here, I haven't read "Answer") Youko and Sachiko may have liked each other as friends but I seriously doubt they were attracted to each other or were emotionally close, at least mutally.

(I think that Youko might have such a HUGE crush on Sei that it renders her incapable of falling for any other, but that's only speculation... )

Enter Yumi. Youko has proven, time and again, that she is an excellent judge of people and she immediately sees that Yumi has the major hots for Sachiko. She also notices that Sachiko is also attracted to Yumi big time. It also seems that Yumi can reach Sachiko emotionally in a way Youko cannot do. It's a different sort of relationship, more romantic than classic - if you get what I mean.

Youko makes a mental note and steps aside to let this relationship grow. It would be good for her little sister to open up emotionally, and the easy going, well-meaning, sensitive Yumi seems perfect for the part. Youko graduates, certain that her petite soeur will have someone to support her.

This doesn't mean that Youko doesn't care for Sachiko. She cares an awful lot, but she knows her limitations and knows what support she can or cannot offer. So, when she learns that Yumi and Sachiko have drifted apart, she does the best she can do - brings Yumi back.

Sachiko has suffered a loss and is vulnerable. No logic or counsel could help (the things Youko was capable of). Sachiko needed some affection and someone that could reach her heart, and Yumi was the one that could offer these (not Touko, which is probably impacted too by said grandmother's death and doesn't seem to be the sensitive, supportive type).

Too long, sorry...

I do agree with Orm Irian on different between Youko-Sachiko's and Sachiko-Yumi's relationship, Yumi can reach Sachiko's emotionally the way Youko can't and Youko's role on this issue. Also I think there's more into it.

Spoiler:

I think part of the issue is Yumi absense is also hurt Sachiko. I know it seems little comparing to losing her grandma. "However, remember what Sachiko needs from Yumi is for Yumi to be by her side, but she didn't. And Sachiko knowing too well that it's because of HERSELF." Hence, the; Is it a dream/ It's my fault/ You still call me Oniisama?/ Can you forgive me? Sachiko said (Not exact words but close enough). I think she feel guilty at some level for treating Yumi that way. And I think she realize that when she compare herself and Yumi with her grandma and the old Yumi. She probably convinced that they'll also end up like that.
So when Yumi came and they made up it reminded her Sachiko of her grandma and the old Yumi made up (Hence, The conversation btw Sachiko-Yumi and her grandma-old Yumi is pretty much one of the same), and what reminded Sachiko again that her grandma at least pass away peacefully.

PS Please be patient of my English .

[Zatoichi8820XX]

Ok at episode 13 of spring..why is Youko, and Suguru are dress like the Molder and Scully form the X-files?

[Sarah89]

I can't say I noticed, but now that you mention it...
One thing's for sure, Youko looks hawt in a suit.

[Zatoichi8820XX]

Also I was thing of the men in black when I saw them

[dahl_moon]

They had attended the funeral of Sachiko's maternal grandmother. That's why they were dressed formally, in black.

[Sarah89]

I personally have to disagree with Sweets Yumi. I think Sachiko's problems with social and emotional issues stem more from her upbringing and family difficulties then any true reflection of her character. What I love about Sachiko (incidentally, she's probably my favourite character) is the fact that, while her sensitivity and tenderness is often hidden by a stern and bad tempered exterior, there can never be much doubt that she is, in fact, a lonely and even needy young woman. An example of this is in the episode where Mifuyu recounts her childhood with Sachiko in Lillian Kindergarten. She recalls Sachiko as rather recalcitrant and giving off 'air of severity' that keeps people away, and yet when Mifuyu begins a friendship with her, she is visibly much happier and more 'childlike'. This suggests that Sachiko has to be 'reached', but those who do touch her heart do so immeasurably. Sachiko doesn't give out affection with ease, and I think her earlier difficulties in expressing her feelings for Yumi are down to this deep rooted reservation, not a lack of care for Yumi. The bumpy start to their (later) very solid relationship is part of what makes Marimite such an emotionally honest series when compared to many others; the characters aren't perfect and all have their problems, just as we do in real life; neither do they always know what to do and how to act around people they love or care about (a problem for many of us IMO).

I think this episode reflects the maturation in Sachiko and Yumi's relationship; it has proved that they both depend on each other equally and that they are both young and have things to learn (from each other as well). Perhaps Yumi learns that her earlier worship of and possessiveness towards Sachiko was not really beneficial to their relationship and kept them apart; Sachiko has learnt to express her feelings to Yumi 'from the heart' and through affection rather than from afar. After they have admitted they love each other, which clearly both of them were desperate to say to each other through much of the later episodes, they are able to properly express themselves to each other and their relationship loses the tension and reservation that earlier proved problematic. Yumi realises Sachiko is only human after all, while Sachiko realises Yumi cares about Sachiko so much she isn't interested in how Sachiko appears to her; she simply loves her for who she is. Yumi has seen Sachiko distraught and in tears, showing all her vulnerability and insecurity, yet her love for her isn't changed at all (if anything it's strengthened). I think the fact that Yumi is able to 'forgive' her for past mistakes is what moves Sachiko to finally say what she's been aching to say (even if it's still a little reserved.)

Sorry for the ramble o.o

[disney72]

wow, that was long.. well said too.. hehe..

[silverstri]

i love all the soundtracks in this haru spring season! well done!!

[Copycatken]

I know I'm reviving an old thread but I just finished watching season 2 and I'd like to have something clarified.

Spoiler for About Youko:

After Sachiko's grandmother passed away, Sachiko's mother says to Yumi that she called over Youko to help Sachiko out. Youko then answered that she couldn't do anything for her and that's why she went to get Yumi.

My question is, did Youko actually try to comfort Sachiko and wasn't able to, thus creating the need to go get Yumi? Or did Youko already know that in this kind of situation, she wouldn't be able to do anything, and knew that only Yumi could cheer up Sachiko?

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Copycatken

My question is, did Youko actually try to comfort Sachiko and wasn't able to, thus creating the need to go get Yumi? Or did Youko already know that in this kind of situation, she wouldn't be able to do anything, and knew that only Yumi could cheer up Sachiko?

Probably the latter. Youko understands Sachiko extremely well, so she would be fully aware of what she could and could not contribute.

By the way, when you're reviving an old thread like this, there's no need for spoiler tags.

[Slick_rick]

In the novel it's actually the former. When Youko goes to comfort Sachiko all she gets is screamed at by Sachiko that she's not Yumi and Sachiko saying that "Yumi hates me." Youko even admits to being jealous of Yumi's importance to Sachiko in the book.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Slick_rick

In the novel it's actually the former. When Youko goes to comfort Sachiko all she gets is screamed at by Sachiko that she's not Yumi and Sachiko saying that "Yumi hates me." Youko even admits to being jealous of Yumi's importance to Sachiko in the book.

Ah, it's interesting to learn that. I can see why they decided to not depict this in the anime though.

[inisipis]

I have a question.

In the last Episode of Maria-sama ni wa Naisho, were Yumi zips back after the credits. In one frame or so, there are writings in Yumi's eyes(it goes like a flash) There's no translation provided. I wonder what those writings mean in English.

[sa547]

Originally Posted by inisipis

I have a question.

In the last Episode of Maria-sama ni wa Naisho, were Yumi zips back after the credits. In one frame or so, there are writings in Yumi's eyes(it goes like a flash) There's no translation provided. I wonder what those writings mean in English.

Kabayan, you mean this?


According to what I asked to the habitues of the Garden of Maidens LJ comm, it means "the end".


*methinks of that "Sada" in Sadako's eye *

[inisipis]

Originally Posted by sa547

Kabayan, you mean this?


According to what I asked to the habitues of the Garden of Maidens LJ comm, it means "the end".


*methinks of that "Sada" in Sadako's eye *

Thanks.
I wish Right Stuf added that to the Liner notes in the DVD