Character Discussion - Lelouch

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by NewtypeUSA2

1) Nunnally listed as dead on the official CG website then coming back.
2) Lelouch being in love with only Nunnally and Euphemia yet we all can agree he loved Kallen by what we see in the anime; I would add shirley, and CC to his list of loves.
3) Suzaku having superhuman reflexes which is explained away by Taniguichi as having been "left out of the rewrite of R2."
4) Nunnally being able to break the Geass Charles put on her yet we're expected to believe that neither Schneizel nor Suzaku will be able to after Lelouch is dead (?).
5) Sunrise statement that there will be more Code Geass, yet Okouchi and Taniguichi said it was over.
6) The sword of Akasha weapon. First its supposed to "kill" god, then its supposed to destroy the world through the Ragnarok Connection. (way to rip of Neon Genesis Evangelion).
7) Gilford being blind, then being apart of Cornelia's charge in the last ep.

Just to clarify/offer alternate views on some of Blade's points.

1. Biglobe is not the official site.
2. Opinions are not facts.
3. Not contradictory.
4. Charles' Geass is not Lelouch's Geass, so your point means nothing.
5. Not contradictory, seeing as how nothing has happened.
6. Learn what a metaphor is. You obviously did not understand.
7. He is never said to be blind. That's your opinion again.

Sorry, try harder. You've proven nothing.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

They certainly thought they had good ideas, and had their supporters.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

@morbo
would the viewers say that ?

lol. Uh, I'm one of those guys who doesn't see Charles or Schniezel as villains, and basically think they were no worse than Lelouch. That is to say, I'm with blade here, except in the sense that I think it's perfectly natural to want to try to impose your idea of what's 'best' in the world and don't actually think any of them were wrong.

That is to say, I think Charles plan would have worked out fine. Schniezel's too (though I'm less of a fan in his case): the idea of 'free will' being intrinsically necessary for happiness is nothing more than 'freedom-loving America' conditioned dogma. Of course, Lelouch's plan wasn't bad either; it has its own strong points as well. But, I think to claim any of their plans was better than another is a sign of either fanboyism or dogmatic thinking.

...

Anyway, huge (but related) tangent here. This discussion about the motives behind Zero Requiem has given me some inspiration to revisit Lelouch vs. Charles. Y'know, thinking back on it, I always thought Lelouch's intellectual protests against Charles' plan were pretty weak. 'Masks allow you to accomplish something'? Yes, but accomplish what? Wasn't Charles' point that the Britannian aristocracy and more generally humanity continually used masks to accomplish bad things? To pursue self-interest, as is only natural, harming others, without any perspective of the fact that the 'self' is a puny and futile thing?

And more to the point, how does 'truth' prevent a future? Why would the inability to use masks lead to a tomorrow that doesn't change? The thing is, Lelouch is right, but only about a specific type of tomorrow. The thing is, without the ability to trick and hide, the only way to pursue your desires is to stand and fight. As you might concieve, such a world would truly be one ruled by the strong. Tomorrow would not exist in the sense that it would be inaccessible to the weak. However, for the strong of mind and the strong of body--those who are able to legitimately enforce their will through sheer ability, whether kind, righteous, or evil--tomorrow would certainly still be there.

Anyway, to get to my main idea here. The thing is, as I've said before, I believe Lelouch's 'destroy and recreate everything' mentality represents a desire to escape the sins and/or mistakes of his past. It is not so much that the future is inherently good/beautiful. The sentiment behind the idea is simply that the past is ugly. And Lelouch's past is certainly ugly: all the lies, blood, and hatred that Lelouch has accumulated in his mistaken quest for revenge upon his father, revenge for his mother, lay behind a single mask. This was why Ragnorok Connection could not be allowed to happen: if that mask were broken, if Lelouch's crimes and deception were engraved into the memories of every mind that Lelouch had ever touched, there would be no hope of ever burying them. Not only in the sense that Lelouch might never be forgiven, which Lelouch probably was beyond caring about by that point anyway (his own guilt and pain far surpassing that), but also because that mask represented Lelouch's only hope of atonement for those actions, to bring back the 'clean slate' idea. That clean and guiltless, sorrowless, painless future that Lelouch desired in his moments of final despair would be forever inaccessible if Ragnorok happened, so that was why Lelouch had to oppose it: not because he had any solid objective reasoning to deny the truth of Charles' ideology, but rather merely for his own personal satisfaction.

And that's where we get to the idea of Lelouch not being any better of a person than Charles or Schniezel.

lol anyway. But, y'know, I've indeed painted a pretty negative picture here. That there was a strong personal (i.e. selfish) component to Lelouch and even Charles' (I say 'even' 'cause I haven't talked about him much) motivations may be taken as a given. Therefore, however, I will concede that there was a conflict of ideologies there. Between Charles' "there is only one person" rejection of the self and Lelouch's "everyone struggles for personal happiness" championing of it, you can certainly see what seems to be a fundamental dichotomy. However, I think that dichotomy is merely one borne from generalizing to extremities. Behind Charles' "there is only one person" declaration, I think lies the simple sentiment that "if you manage to attain happiness at the cost of the happiness of another person, then ultimately (objectively), you have accomplished nothing"; while behind Lelouch's "lies and dishonourable actions are forgivable, because everyone is just struggling for a piece of happiness" conviction lies simply the feeling that "a life without happiness is meaningless". So I think the obvious answer is not to abandon the self, nor to forgive any selfishness (Lelouch you ass, you really didn't need to let Rolo die happy, that little fucker), but simply to live if you can find happiness without taking others', and die otherwise .

[yvj]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

lol. Uh, I'm one of those guys who doesn't see Charles or Schniezel as villains, and basically think they were no worse than Lelouch. That is to say, I'm with blade here, except in the sense that I think it's perfectly natural to want to try to impose your idea of what's 'best' in the world and don't actually think any of them were wrong.

That is to say, I think Charles plan would have worked out fine. Schniezel's too (though I'm less of a fan in his case): the idea of 'free will' being intrinsically necessary for happiness is nothing more than 'freedom-loving America' conditioned dogma. Of course, Lelouch's plan wasn't bad either; it has its own strong points as well. But, I think to claim any of their plans was better than another is a sign of either fanboyism or dogmatic thinking.

I would disagree with bolded. And would call for further elaboration to clarify the position, so it does not come across as broad generalizations.

Jumping into the free will debate is a messy thing. But I don't understand how a plan that in theory (it's intention is) to have people choose their own direction in life. (ideally realizing that they own their own, whatever nation they might, destiny in life and no one else's) is not a few degrees better than the plans that strip you of choices by force.

[NewtypeUSA2]

@morbosfist

Sorry, try harder. You've proven nothing.

Actually I did prove what I wanted too.
I proved that you (like me) are hard headed and will not listen to someone else's opinion on this subject.

Therefore I think it best if we agree to disagree on this.
What I see as contradiction you see as not that is clear by what you posted.

Like I said before, I agree with Zongetsu in part and still do.
I disagree with you and having gone back and read through the 200+ pages of the episode 25 Re thread here on this board I understand why we will never agree.
So further discussion is pointless IMHO.

Tho I do agree with you and blade about Lelouch loving Kallen so there is that point we have in common.

[Sol Falling]

Originally Posted by yvj

I would disagree with bolded. And would call for further elaboration to clarify the position, so it does not come across as broad generalizations.

Jumping into the free will debate is a messy thing. But I don't understand how a plan that in theory (it's intention is) to have people choose their own direction in life. (ideally realizing that they own their own, whatever nation they might, destiny in life and no one else's) is not a few degrees better than the plans that strip you of choices by force.

lol. The free will debate isn't that messy, actually: there's just the generic 'yay freedom' voice of the herd and the depressed determinists who've given up on the idea of people actually being able to 'control' themselves. Yes, that's a dual-layered summary there. Politically, we're probably stuck with the ideals of democracy ('people [should] have the freedom to choose'), but metaphysically, determinists have got the obvious win: let's say you're hungry, not a vegetarian, not on a diet or any of that shit; you've got a pizza you bought sitting right in front of you, no urgent business, and no starving hobos to appeal to your altruism either. Let's even give you a fork and knife (or paper towel, as the case may be). Let's face it, you got no choice--you're gonna eat.

On the 'intention' of Lelouch's plan, anyway. You realize Lelouch isn't actually 'respecting people's right to choose their own direction in life', right? What's Lelouch's response to Schniezel's "people need to be lead"? It's "They all desire happiness, so things'll turn out alright anyway". But you know, even Lelouch didn't think that just "they all desire happiness" was enough to guarantee anything: that was why he decided to strip everybody's lives down to fear, pain, and misery, to ensure that that basic 'desire for happiness' was the force/motivation that actually came out in the end. The 'things'll turn out alright' outcome was what Lelouch was truly after--what Schniezel and Charles were pursuing too. Lelouch just chose to pursue it in a way that didn't require him to be around to see it: the whole 'lie' aspect of Zero Requiem (please note: everything in Zero Requiem was about the lie) was basically him saying "I can make them all into good little sheep so they will do what we want them to without us telling them to". I really don't see how that is any more democratic than what Charles or Schniezel's were doing.

[zongetsu]

And heres a little thing to think about.

IN the end, we all saw CC in a church right? That church however is very, VERY, similar to the one on the ashford grounds. There are only a few minor differences in detail. She was still in japan.

So anyways, she was crying and praying in the end. Why would she do that if she knew lelouch was going to die? The answer is simple. He might not die.

Lelouch said himself

"With this, the world will be able to sit at one table through discussion and not military force."

With those words he already gave his faith in the world moving in the correct direction however his next few lines are on a complete different topic.

he then said, "I will gamble on the geass known as people's wishes, for the sake of the worlds future."

What exactly does that line mean...Keyword...gamble

In his character song, he uses the same world, gamble in the line "Those who walk the path of carnage can never retrace their steps
Even if I crumble and turn to ash, because life has a limit
There is worth in gambling it, even if our linked fingers come apart"

So he is gambling his life. That only knocks out the contention that "he wanted to die." It was shown once, that CC could not tell who possesed a code. If his life was gambled...that would be why CC would be praying. Praying that he would live.

THe only way he could live was through the code. Which brings up that line again. "I will gamble on the geass known as people's wishes, for the sake of the worlds future."

Let me fix it a bit "I will gamble on the geass(geass/assistance) known as people's wishes (tommorow/code), for the sake of the worlds(CC's/my) future.

Either way...it only points to him potentially being alive. Geass is the wish and the assistance to achieve that wish. Peoples wishes are that of tommorow, which originated from god himself. Thats why it eliminated charles and marianne. World could pertain to everyone, however with other words infront of it must either apply to himself or CC.

Very sneaky. But that is how we get, happy CC in the end. A mysterious cart driver shown to where the same thing as lelouch in the promo pic A nunnally who hears someone call her name from where light dances boisteriously, aka darkside of the earth.

(lelouch's song)
If happiness were visible
If I could show it to you, then I'd try to stand at the end of the darkness
Even as far as the furthest points of the earth

He is standing on the "end of the darkness"

oh god it turned out to be a tl;dr post...

[Nobodyman9]

Wow. I have never seen anyone twist the truth as obsessively and ridiculously as you zongetsu. You should be a lawyer.

Anyway, to answer your question about why C.C. was praying. She wasn't praying because she hoped that Lelouch would live. Sometimes when people die people pray for their souls and that they will find peace in the afterlife. I think that's probably what C.C. was praying for, or something along those lines anyway.

And as for this line "I will gamble on the geass known as people's wishes, for the sake of the worlds future." You are looking WAY too much into it. What it means is that he will gamble the fate of the world on people's desire for peace and happiness. He believes that after he is killed the people will unite having all their hatred focused on him. Thus, he is paying the ultimate price, his life, in a gamble to bring peace to the world. It's possible the world may not have become peaceful, but he gambled on it (the peoples' wishes) and he was right.

Also, how in the hell could "the world" possibly translate to "C.C./my"? Even Lelouch isn't that conceited.

Also, when was it stated that C.C. can't tell who possesses a code?

[piercing]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

hence the simple "answer the question" format
every time he answers the questions he makes his argument seem weaker
and every time he tries to wiggle and squirm out of answering he makes his argument seem weaker
i win either way

Ah, you are quite the egotist right? So, in order to feel you "win", you just perpetually contrive, an argument that makes no sense.
No, you do not win, the show canon evidences win, and i think it would be wise to leave it like this.

[youngde]

Hate to tell you this zongetsu, but while SUNRISE may decide to milk the cash cow and bring back Code Geass (which is almost certain) and may even bring back Lelouch (this is less certain), the fact remains that the original ending to the original CG series is Lelouch sacrifices himself to concentrate the hate of the world on him and make a peaceful world for Nunally, Kallen and his friends. The shear heartlessness it would have to take to fake his death and leave behind the girl he knows loves him (and he may love her), his sister to try to maintain the peace and his bestfriend to live his life behind a mask which Lelouch and C.C. are meanwhile singing 'Coppa Cabana,' on a beach in the Caribean is so great, that the very idea is laughable considering Lelouch's character. If and when SUNRISE decides to bring back Geass, if this was the actual scenario that they used, Mu La Flaga's return seems prefectly logical by comparason.

youngde, signing off.

[SonOfHeaven]

From what I'm reading. It seems this zongetsu person is trying to establish that Lelouch lived at the end of the series through a promo picture and stating his/her theories are always right lol. If one of the two people that composed the series stated he is dead then that is what it is.

First off, If you haven't read the mutuality story between Lelouch, Suzaku and C.C then you need to. Since that goes in line with what's been stated already from the staff itself.

Let's go with C.C final part in the geass*net(official site btw which I don't need to get into, I'm pretty sure the complete guide has this as well)

-"Knowing that Lelouch does not hate her for giving him the Geass, she is now able to show her true feelings. With the realization of "Zero Requiem", her time with Lelouch, who was able to forgive and accept her, came to an end, but the memories created with him has, without doubt, saved her from eternal loneliness."

This was made obvious with the show itself. Just like how Kallen is talking to Lelouch at the end so is C.C.

Let's go with now an Animage November interview with Okouchi as well.

"Okouchi: In my opinion, the show had a Happy End, not a Bad End. In episode 7 of season 1, during Lelouch's conversation with C.C., there is this line: "There is no meaning to a life in which you're only just being alive." Lelouch saved his beloved sister and realized his own version of a kind world. His life had not been in vain. This is the reason why Lelouch smiled in the end."

He also said this.

"Okouchi: From the very beginning, [I/we] never planned on explaining everything. In fact, if you ask me, I think we might have overdone the explanations. While it's undeniable that Lelouch's story has ended with a full stop, the other characters' stories are still on-going, and it's not like the world [of Code Geass] itself has come to an end either. [I/we] didn't want to end it by closing it up for good"

Run this along with the scan of the possibility of more Code Geass and they both seem to go together.

This is well in the same thing.

"The characters who sought tomorrow"

"Lelouch vi Britannia - He understood people's desires through the World of C. That was, the desire for tomorrow. To compensate for continuing to involve the people he used geass on, he decided to carry the burden of fulfilling the wishes of the people. He sought not his own tomorrow, but the tomorrow that the world sought for."

Do I have to explain this? But knowing you, you're going to continue gasping at straws just to satisfy your own POV.

"C.C. - Her wish was to die as a human, but after spending time with Lelouch, C.C. also wished for tomorrow. She made up her mind to ensure the tomorrow of the world that Lelouch had left."

By the end of the series, C.C wanted to live. She hinted even this during the Kallen fight. This is what Lelouch gave C.C and why she smiled. Knowing that Lelouch didn't hate her and cared for her good for her. Didn't she herself tell Lelouch about the smile during turn 24.

Even the show itself, mutuality and other instances made this clear. You keep saying Lelouch wanted an tomorrow for himself. As what was shown in the series, people change. Like for example Kallen's feelings for Lelouch changed to throughout the entire span of R2. Among other examples.

Do I really have to go on with this? I could get more quotes from interviews that makes your claims invalid.

Moving to the little bit about Kallen you stated earlier. As mentioned in the complete guide. Lelouch had an wish for Kallen. The little wish was in quotes in her profile as if someone said that to Kallen(She understood that this is what Lelouch wanted for her).

Run that along with Lelouch "live on" line, how he treated Kallen very differently from before during trun 22. Along with her poem which explains quite an few things btw. Suzaku mentioning Nunnally and Kallen being happy in the end in the last PD. Kallen's character song about living for Leluoch as well and wanting to cry in his arms which was beautiful. And This little bit with Okouchi.

"(Person who asked him)--I see. So Lelouch's decision was also your, Mr. Okouchi's, and Director Taniguchi's decision."

"Okouchi: Which is why I think of both our and Lelouch's decision as Happy Ends. I believe that there will be better things in the tomorrow awaiting Nunnally, Kallen and the rest who have been left behind. And surely Lelouch, who was able to make this into a reality, can only be happy [about this]."

Very similar indeed. Mentioning Nunnally and Kallen again. Lelouch cared for those two alot and his actions proved that throughout the series.

This is all I'm going to say on the matter. Face the facts Lelouch is gone, deal with it until shown otherwise. You can believe he's alive but saying he's for an fact that he was an cart driver based on nothing is fail(Seriously using an promo picture. I guess all promo pictures are canon now ). Given your extremely biased nature. I'm sure if the complete stated Lelouch loved C.C, you wouldn't disregard the complete guidebook. But anyways, it was an official release from the staff so deal with it. He didn't love C.C romantically but with the other two, you can debate about it.

You see what I'm going to do is put you on my ignore list given what happened in the RT months ago with you zongetsu. Since you always believe your opinion is fact and you won't stop. So there is no need for me to see your reply since I know what your already going to say. No need to go on. Just an case of agree to disagree. You believe you're right but I believe in what has been said in the past that goes along with how the show presented things.

[Kid Ying]

Originally Posted by youngde

Hate to tell you this zongetsu, but while SUNRISE may decide to milk the cash cow and bring back Code Geass (which is almost certain) and may even bring back Lelouch (this is less certain), the fact remains that the original ending to the original CG series is Lelouch sacrifices himself to concentrate the hate of the world on him and make a peaceful world for Nunally, Kallen and his friends. The shear heartlessness it would have to take to fake his death and leave behind the girl he knows loves him (and he may love her), his sister to try to maintain the peace and his bestfriend to live his life behind a mask which Lelouch and C.C. are meanwhile singing 'Coppa Cabana,' on a beach in the Caribean is so great, that the very idea is laughable considering Lelouch's character. If and when SUNRISE decides to bring back Geass, if this was the actual scenario that they used, Mu La Flaga's return seems prefectly logical by comparason.

youngde, signing off.

I guess that sums it all. Even i, who really wanted for Lelouch to be alive at the end, got to agree totally with this.

Lelouch is dead. He can be resurrected or something like that, but right now, he's six feet under and there's nothing to prove the contrary...

[iBeast]

Lol he ain't dead...he's the cart driver...telll me why they went and made the extra effort to make CC's eyes rotate towards the cart driver when she said "eh lelouch"and the camera even made an effort to show 1/4 of the cart drivers face who apparently is a nobody

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by iBeast

Lol he ain't dead...he's the cart driver...telll me why they went and made the extra effort to make CC's eyes rotate towards the cart driver when she said "eh lelouch"and the camera even made an effort to show 1/4 of the cart drivers face who apparently is a nobody

Im sorry I have to kill your logic but he isn't the cart driver. Tell me why they went and made Kallen speak to him at the end like if he was alive, and why the camera made an effort to make a close up on what is hiding under Kallen's bed without really showing anything, if Lelouch isn't actually hiding under her bed ?

He is under her bed. This theory makes much more sense that the cart driver one.

[razorblades]

Originally Posted by iBeast

Lol he ain't dead...he's the cart driver...telll me why they went and made the extra effort to make CC's eyes rotate towards the cart driver when she said "eh lelouch"and the camera even made an effort to show 1/4 of the cart drivers face who apparently is a nobody

I detect high intellectual level in this section, i am actually impressed. (NOT)

Ahh, C.C does not roll her eyes. Apart from making facades of opinions, you see things now too? I mean, "what is this, i don't even."

Lolipopo : That theory is true. And whoever came up with it, is an epic person. 8D

[Tyrone Biggums]

I just had a good laugh from all the arguing going on in this thread haha!

Oh man...and on that note I'm going for beers.

PS. I think Lelouch is dead...but for the sake of Sunrise "maybe" coming out with a OVA or movie or somesuch thing for them to make some more money. They can always bring him back easy enough with how they ended it.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Tyrone Biggums

PS. I think Lelouch is dead...but for the sake of Sunrise "maybe" coming out with a OVA or movie or somesuch thing for them to make some more money. They can always bring him back easy enough with how they ended it.

Agreed. With Sunrise anything is possible, so they could very well pull a douch move and bring Lelouch back to life to continue the series somehow, but for the time being we can only assume that he's dead and will stay dead.

[edgeofeblan]

Ok I know not many want to hear this but here is my opinion on lelouch and sunrise.Even if they confirmed his death there are more clues leading to him being alive then dead meaning they either messed up and made it where he was dead but facts leading him to be alive or there lieing.I think there lieing because the clues we are left with.

1 When lelouch was in with charles both his eyes turned to geass as if he unlocked the final stage or is now immortal.

2 you say someone must die for the other to obtain geass not true also that when someone obtains code they lose geass another not true by evidence such as alot were still in love with c2 even know she was immortal lelouch mao a few others.

3 Why would c2 be talking to a dead lelouch or herself in most movies this would be a last 5 sec moonlight event were they making room for a sequel by the main character being alive.Also c2 was talking about even know his contract was to be in solitude but saying it didnt end up that way leaning towards they have each other.

4 Why would they have the cart driver wearing a mask they must want you to think hes alive or they would have showed the cart drivers face which they didn't.

5 He can still atone for his sins by changing the world as you know it forcing everyone to unite under his tyrantcy then when he died they would all stay together.He obtains a punishment still never getting to see nunally ever when thats all he wanted so even if he is alive he atoned.

6 You never see his body grave or anything means he could have easly been taken off by c2.A few were in on it as well suzaku Jerimia since you saw him halt them from shoot suzaku and helped him in the end.

So all in all if they meant for him to be dead they messed up by leading so many clues to him alive i tend to believe there lieing so if they do indeed make another series they can show him at some point and surprise everyone many great story tellers and video game producers use that strategy to entice and surprise the reader watcher.

So basically from those reasons alone they leaving more clues he is alive then dead.Square enix did it with tidus in ffx so why not im sure theres a catch and they just lieing so if they decide to not make another story based on code geass they have the perfect ending.Just my opinion please dont flame me for it I just like to take all the clues and make a accusation.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by edgeofeblan

Ok I know not many want to hear this but here is my opinion on lelouch and sunrise.Even if they confirmed his death there are more clues leading to him being alive then dead meaning they either messed up and made it where he was dead but facts leading him to be alive or there lieing.I think there lieing because the clues we are left with.

1 When lelouch was in with charles both his eyes turned to geass as if he unlocked the final stage or is now immortal.

2 you say someone must die for the other to obtain geass not true also that when someone obtains code they lose geass another not true by evidence such as alot were still in love with c2 even know she was immortal lelouch mao a few others.

3 Why would c2 be talking to a dead lelouch or herself in most movies this would be a last 5 sec moonlight event were they making room for a sequel by the main character being alive.Also c2 was talking about even know his contract was to be in solitude but saying it didnt end up that way leaning towards they have each other.

4 Why would they have the cart driver wearing a mask they must want you to think hes alive or they would have showed the cart drivers face which they didn't.

5 He can still atone for his sins by changing the world as you know it forcing everyone to unite under his tyrantcy then when he died they would all stay together.He obtains a punishment still never getting to see nunally ever when thats all he wanted so even if he is alive he atoned.

6 You never see his body grave or anything means he could have easly been taken off by c2.A few were in on it as well suzaku Jerimia since you saw him halt them from shoot suzaku and helped him in the end.

So all in all if they meant for him to be dead they messed up by leading so many clues to him alive i tend to believe there lieing so if they do indeed make another series they can show him at some point and surprise everyone many great story tellers and video game producers use that strategy to entice and surprise the reader watcher.

So basically from those reasons alone they leaving more clues he is alive then dead.Square enix did it with tidus in ffx so why not im sure theres a catch and they just lieing so if they decide to not make another story based on code geass they have the perfect ending.Just my opinion please dont flame me for it I just like to take all the clues and make a accusation.

1. Invevitably, if a geass user uses their long enough they will get their geass in both eyes. This doesn't necessarily indicate they are or can become immortal though. In fact, when you obtain the code your geass vanishes, thus there would be no geass sigils in your eyes.

2. No one ever said someone must die in order for someone else to obtain a geass. Also, C.C. did not have her geass after she gained her code. If anyone else fell in love with her after that it was by their own volition. The only person I can think of who "loved" C.C. was Mao, and that had nothing to do with a geass. According to the official guidebook Lelouch did not romantically love C.C.

3. Sometimes people do talk to the deceased just for sentimental value. Also, C.C. said the power of the king doesn't necessarily lead to solitude because they still have deep meaningful emotional attachments (or something like that)

4. First off, the cart driver wasn't wearing a mask. His face was hidden. And who knows why they didn't show his face. He's just a random cart driver, his face isn't really important. There's no practical reason to suspect that it's Lelouch.

5. It was stated in the very beginning that the only people who deserve to kill are those who are prepared to be killed, and this idea came full circle in the end. Yes, it would be sad for him to not be able to see his family and friends again, but after he sacrficed and ruined so many lives it would just be wrong of him to go off living somewhere.

6. There's no need for them to show anymore of his dead body or his grave. We saw him die. It would be very odd if the dead body of Lelouch vi Britannia just up and vanished. Suzaku maybe could have done something (he didn't) but Jeremiah had to go into hiding as he was a loyal soldier of Lelouch and thus would've been persecuted.

[monir]

All these ugliness could have been avoided if even one member thought to report one of these so many poorly comprised posts as soon as the nonsense started. It's shame some of you hold the notion reporting post is ev1l. Unfortunately someone did blow the whistle once it reached a boiling point. By then, bunch of posters were found guilty along with the baka who started the nonsense. The lesson here is, please don't stoop to the same level as someone who can easily be spotted as less-than-bright from miles away. No one wins by entertaining those sort of posters.

Oh well. Bunch of posts removed. Bunch of bans handed out. Rest of us move on.

[Laurcus]

So can anyone tell me or better yet show me what this promo pic is that supposedly shows Lelouch is alive? Not trying to debate anything here I just want to see it. kk thnx Also thank you moderator dude for cleaning up the forum. Some of those posts were downright bonkers lol.