AnimeSuki Forums

zorahk · 2009-08-18, 21:25

That doesn't change the fact there's no reason to even bother compressing it to begin with.

Bocom · 2009-08-18, 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

Does .nsa support .png or .gif compression? Those are lossless.

.gif lossless? Uh, no.

Also, is there any reason why you keep the original Shift_JIS text in the translations file? (Can't be bothered to search the thread) I mean, sure, it makes the file larger, but that's trivial. I'd still like to know the reason, if there is one.

k//eternal · 2009-08-18, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorahk

That doesn't change the fact there's no reason to even bother compressing it to begin with.

It'll shrink the patch size, shorter download for everyone.

Unless nobody cares about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bocom

.gif lossless? Uh, no.

GIF can be lossless if there's no alpha transparency and sufficiently few colors in the original image.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bocom

Also, is there any reason why you keep the original Shift_JIS text in the translations file? (Can't be bothered to search the thread) I mean, sure, it makes the file larger, but that's trivial. I'd still like to know the reason, if there is one.

Makes TCing easier, as well as handling edits to lines that have already been edited, since the Japanese won't change.

Renall · 2009-08-18, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorahk

That doesn't change the fact there's no reason to even bother compressing it to begin with.

Average tati/portrait: 1.7 MB

Resaved as a PNG: 44 KB

There is a reason. PNG portraits look exactly the same and are like ten times smaller. The background images are arguable but when I saved them in JPG they literally looked no different.

zorahk · 2009-08-18, 21:51

Quote:

It'll shrink the patch size, shorter download for everyone.

Unless nobody cares about that.

The patch for ep 4 was 50MB. If you seriously think that needs shrinking, can I ask what kind of internet you are using?

k//eternal · 2009-08-18, 21:57

No need to be rude. It's not for me personally, and it's not something that's remotely difficult to do. Quite honestly, it'll take far less time to put all the translated images in JPG or PNG than to have an argument about it, so I think we'll likely just do it.

Renall · 2009-08-18, 21:58

My issue is mostly for 07th. The number of images WH has to alter are quite small, so changing them doesn't affect much really. The issue is more why 07th decided to switch to BMPs even though they wind up grossly overpadding the arc.nsa.

MarthX · 2009-08-18, 21:59

Yeah. 50 MB doesn't really need shrinking. If it's something that'll slow down progress then I'm against it.

Renall · 2009-08-18, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarthX

Yeah. 50 MB doesn't really need shrinking. If it's something that'll slow down progress then I'm against it.

It'd take no time at all (they'd just save the altered image as a PNG or JPG), it just doesn't matter much when the bulk of the files come from 07th and not WH. The 50 MB would probably drop to 20-25 at the most, which is a fairly small amount (I suppose you could argue 400 MB is a small amount, but I'd be inclined to disagree).

k//eternal · 2009-08-18, 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

My issue is mostly for 07th. The number of images WH has to alter are quite small, so changing them doesn't affect much really. The issue is more why 07th decided to switch to BMPs even though they wind up grossly overpadding the arc.nsa.

All that can be done is to ask them, it's not really something for discussion in the translation project thread...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarthX

Yeah. 50 MB doesn't really need shrinking. If it's something that'll slow down progress then I'm against it.

Well, technically it will. By maybe 5 minutes. It's not going to be an inconvenience at all, seriously.

Jan-Poo · 2009-08-19, 02:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall

Average tati/portrait: 1.7 MB

Resaved as a PNG: 44 KB

There is a reason. PNG portraits look exactly the same and are like ten times smaller. The background images are arguable but when I saved them in JPG they literally looked no different.

PNG is another matter. If it is PNG then it works, but jpg would never give a perfect rendition of flat color images.

Quote:

Also, is there any reason why you keep the original Shift_JIS text in the translations file? (Can't be bothered to search the thread) I mean, sure, it makes the file larger, but that's trivial. I'd still like to know the reason, if there is one.

I seriously hope this won't change. Okay must of the people who use the patch do not give a damn, but if you extract it, it becomes an invaluable source of informations.

How many times have there been people who asked how that particular word was in the original? With such file I only need to make a quick search to find the original japanese word. It is incredibly useful. Please do not change this.

k//eternal · 2009-08-19, 02:34

http://www.biomedcentral.com/info/if...urefileformats

Okay! Enough of that, there's really no meaning in talking about it further.

And I don't technically have control of this, but I'll guarantee regardless that the Japanese text will stay in the file, just because of how we've operated up to now.

ghost_zero5 · 2009-08-19, 04:19

I have to agree with Jan-Poo that PNG would be a different matter. Of course, it has some drawbacks too, e.g. when it would be used for web-design (which is not the case here) - is that the IE6 doesn't support it correctly out-of-the-box and the web developer would need to do further "adjustments" to the HTML & CSS "code" to get it working the way they want it to work. Also it is a loseless compression and therefore should result in bigger image sizes than what is possible with a lossy compression (but of course, you don't loose image information that way).
Regarding flat colors JPEG is even bad at maximum compression settings.

HOWEVER, does anyone know how JPEG2000 is performing with flat colors?
It isn't used so often, therefore have no idea regarding this BUT I know that JPEG2000 supports also a loseless compression which I think would be kinda interesting how big loseless JPEG2000 files would be afterwars. Normally, they should be way bigger than when using a lossy compression. Maybe I will test this if I have time

rogerpepitone · 2009-08-19, 04:38

I think that .nsa is a compressed format, so it's not as bad as it could be.

Also, if disk space is that important, arc2.nsa is only used for demo mode in the music box, so you can delete that.

**Klashikari** · 2009-08-19, 04:46

Huh no, just don't. arc2.nsa contain many background, effects, ending scrolls etc.
It should not be deleted at all.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-08-19, 05:05

As a general rule just don't touch anything. Really now.

Ushiromiya Battler · 2009-08-19, 12:27

Um... apologies for re-asking this, I certainly don't mean to be a bother but I would like to know if the EP1 revision patch is going to be put on hold or delayed so I can tell my friend either to wait a bit longer or just go ahead and read it anyway...

**Klashikari** · 2009-08-19, 13:17

We are still doing it, (especially the translation style as it is really different from how chrono is doing now).
It is delayed a bit, because we have more edits to apply to Episode 4, and we have Episode 5 so.

However, I'm unable to tell you the possible ETA for the time being, unfortunately.
edit: for those who are worrying, as implied in this post, the translation process has begun.

k//eternal · 2009-08-19, 13:31

Regarding JPG and PNG:

Spoiler:

Can you tell which is which without checking the file extension?

Tomoya-kun · 2009-08-19, 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by k//eternal

Regarding JPG and PNG:

Spoiler:

Can you tell which is which without checking the file extension?

I couldn't.

2009-08-19, 04:19	Link #2293
ghost_zero5 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008	I have to agree with Jan-Poo that PNG would be a different matter. Of course, it has some drawbacks too, e.g. when it would be used for web-design (which is not the case here) - is that the IE6 doesn't support it correctly out-of-the-box and the web developer would need to do further "adjustments" to the HTML & CSS "code" to get it working the way they want it to work. Also it is a loseless compression and therefore should result in bigger image sizes than what is possible with a lossy compression (but of course, you don't loose image information that way). Regarding flat colors JPEG is even bad at maximum compression settings. HOWEVER, does anyone know how JPEG2000 is performing with flat colors? It isn't used so often, therefore have no idea regarding this BUT I know that JPEG2000 supports also a loseless compression which I think would be kinda interesting how big loseless JPEG2000 files would be afterwars. Normally, they should be way bigger than when using a lossy compression. Maybe I will test this if I have time Last edited by ghost_zero5; 2009-08-19 at 04:32.

2009-08-19, 04:46	Link #2295
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	Huh no, just don't. arc2.nsa contain many background, effects, ending scrolls etc. It should not be deleted at all. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2009-08-19, 05:05	Link #2296
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	As a general rule just don't touch anything. Really now. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-08-19, 13:17	Link #2298
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	We are still doing it, (especially the translation style as it is really different from how chrono is doing now). It is delayed a bit, because we have more edits to apply to Episode 4, and we have Episode 5 so. However, I'm unable to tell you the possible ETA for the time being, unfortunately. edit: for those who are worrying, as implied in this post, the translation process has begun. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter] Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-08-20 at 12:30.

2009-08-18, 21:25	Link #2281
zorahk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008	That doesn't change the fact there's no reason to even bother compressing it to begin with.

2009-08-18, 21:57	Link #2286
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	No need to be rude. It's not for me personally, and it's not something that's remotely difficult to do. Quite honestly, it'll take far less time to put all the translated images in JPG or PNG than to have an argument about it, so I think we'll likely just do it.

2009-08-18, 21:58	Link #2287
Renall BUY MY BOOK!!! Join Date: May 2009	My issue is mostly for 07th. The number of images WH has to alter are quite small, so changing them doesn't affect much really. The issue is more why 07th decided to switch to BMPs even though they wind up grossly overpadding the arc.nsa.

2009-08-18, 21:59	Link #2288
MarthX Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Age: 39	Yeah. 50 MB doesn't really need shrinking. If it's something that'll slow down progress then I'm against it.

2009-08-19, 02:34	Link #2292
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	http://www.biomedcentral.com/info/if...urefileformats Okay! Enough of that, there's really no meaning in talking about it further. And I don't technically have control of this, but I'll guarantee regardless that the Japanese text will stay in the file, just because of how we've operated up to now.

2009-08-19, 04:38	Link #2294
rogerpepitone Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	I think that .nsa is a compressed format, so it's not as bad as it could be. Also, if disk space is that important, arc2.nsa is only used for demo mode in the music box, so you can delete that.

2009-08-19, 12:27	Link #2297
Ushiromiya Battler Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009	Um... apologies for re-asking this, I certainly don't mean to be a bother but I would like to know if the EP1 revision patch is going to be put on hold or delayed so I can tell my friend either to wait a bit longer or just go ahead and read it anyway...

2009-08-19, 13:31	Link #2299
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	Regarding JPG and PNG: Spoiler: Can you tell which is which without checking the file extension?