2014-03-27, 09:02 | Link #1901 |
Index III was a mistake
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Age: 32
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^..................now that...is the question......
Honestly, I don't know how Doom Paperclip can keep defending his argument indefinitely while I get tired after only a few posts....Thanks alot demino hellsin, I'm outta here for a while.
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2014-03-27, 10:35 | Link #1902 | |
No time to sleep, 不幸だ
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Big Apple
Age: 30
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You do not know how much I love this new catchphrase of yours, C2F.
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It's all in his name. He is but a paperclip of doom. We have seen more bizarre things.
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2014-03-27, 10:54 | Link #1903 | ||
lethal office stationery
Join Date: Oct 2012
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Not sure why anyone might be disappointed by the fact that the thing (or one of the things) inside IB is a Dragon. Dragons are overused for a reason. It's because they're awesome.
Besides, Aiwass is also referred to as Dragon. It claims in an excerpt I quoted a couple of posts back that that term fits it even more than Angel. As a matter of fact, just before the epilogue of Volume 19, Aiwass declared that it could transform. I wouldn't be surprised if its second transformation were also a Dragon. I fail to see how an existence similar to Aiwass could be disappointing in any way. As for the nature of this power, it's not like we have absolutely no clues whatsoever. Indeed, Aleister himself gave us some valuable information in Volume 22: Quote:
All this leads us to our first big clue. If we want to know the truth about that Dragon arm, we must discard Christian interpretations, as well as interpretations from all mythologies on the same level as Christianity. We can take this to mean that any Osiris religion will be mostly useless in this context. The excerpt I quoted also contains our second clue. The power inside IB was referred to as "The One Who Purifies God". Our third clue comes in the form a statement about IB. This time our source is Ollerus: Quote:
Ollerus also speculated that IB represents the hope of magicians that even if they completely **** up the world, they will always have the means to return everything to how it used to be. However, he is less certain about this and we cannot yet accept this as truth. My bet is that this interpretation is wrong. Putting these three clues together, I have come up with a tentative theory. It probably won't be 100% correct, but I'm fairly confident it contains at least 1% of truth: 1) IB is the world's immune system, a defense mechanism against being distorted by the occult. It either predates humanity or came into being as a response to humanity developing magic. 2) The One Who Purifies God is the power source of IB. It represents the will of the world to reject distortions and is fueled by the power of the world (all of it, be it from the stars or Ley Lines; as an interesting aside, in Welsh and Japanese traditions, Ley Lines are also referred to as "Dragon Lines"). Its ultimate function is to strip all of the phases from the world, thus purifying the world from God and other distortions. 3) Touma cannot use IB properly, so much like Fiamma could not draw out 100% of the Holy Right's power at first, Touma cannot draw out the full power of The One Who Purifies God either. The One Who Purifies God only uses its full power in retaliation when IB is severed, but without IB to tell it how the world is supposed to be, it becomes a violent force that haphazardly crushes everything it can identify as occult instead of properly restoring balance, thus explaining why it destroyed Aureolus' memories, something IB never does. When used properly, The One Who Purifies God should be manifested through IB, not when it is damaged. As an aside, I also have a theory about Touma's bad luck. I believe that in TAMNI, luck is caused by people unconsciously distorting the world through their hopes in order to make the things they want to happen more likely to occur. IB prevents Touma from doing that. I am a Paperclip. What meaning would there be in my existence if I couldn't hold my argument together?
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2014-03-27, 11:50 | Link #1904 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Germany
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IB can remake the world like it was created by god... Dragon is the manifested distortion of the world created from gemstones, espers, magicians etc. if one side vanishes the other side will have the upper hand... |
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2014-03-27, 12:04 | Link #1905 | |||
lethal office stationery
Join Date: Oct 2012
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2014-03-27, 14:12 | Link #1906 | |
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
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Spoiler for Infinity and basic logic don't go well together:
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2014-03-27, 14:44 | Link #1907 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Spain
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After thinking it for a bit maybe the dragon head that appeared in the last Railgun chapter makes sense. After Fiamma cuts Touma's right arm and absorbs Imagine Breaker the Invisible Thing appears but then this happens.
Spoiler for Toma stops the invisible thing:
Spoiler for The Invisible Thing attacks Othinus:
Last edited by LazyHunter; 2014-03-27 at 14:57. |
2014-03-27, 14:58 | Link #1909 |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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Anyway, just pointing out that we haven't seen Othinus reach the same level as Aleister yet. She was not able to be two places at once, and get things from other dimensions... She was however hinted at being able to change her appearance over time.
Assuming phases are in the territory of Horus, then how much farther is Aleister than her, after all she was easily able to crush IT, so maybe Aleister could as well. Furthermore, Dragons are commonly associated with evil, and I think the reference is to Lucifer. Anyway, I have reason to believe that the IT's powers are sealed, and that there might be some important factor related to the sound of glass breaking that Imagine Breaker emits each time a supernatural power is negated. Imagine Breaker regenerates itself like Aiwass, and the power itself can come back at some specific time and transfer elsewhere like Aiwass. So I'm guessing that the two are connected. The one thing I do want to point out though is that Touma himself foreshadowed last volume that it is likely that his right hand is more than a reference point for the world. I believe that next volume will provide us with some important information on his power. Heck, Spoiler for NT 10 speculation:
I hope we will be getting more tangible details soon, though I'm sure we won't be getting any for a while after this arc since we just got so many... |
2014-03-27, 15:22 | Link #1911 | |||
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
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@dniv As far as I know Aleister didn't blow up the universe countless times. Even if he can, which is probable if we were to reconsider what Othinus said about him, he still didn't show it to us.
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Moreover, assuming he's actually "omnipresent", that doesn't necessarily mean he's nigh-omnipotent crazy level of powerful. I mean, just look at Schrödinger. The guy's practically useless other than being immortal and everywhere. The one from Hellsing, not the real one. Quote:
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2014-03-27, 15:43 | Link #1912 | ||||||||
Of Infinite Resignation
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Canada
Age: 28
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It doesn't matter that we saw it ''years ago'', we are talking about now, after the Invisible Thing manifested at the end of Vol. 22 and NT4, not as a Dragon Head, but as an invisible thing. Everyone then assumed that the Dragon form was a symbolic representation of what IT truly is. I'm not denying that, and I doubt the others are denying that, what I fear is that the Dragon ceases to be a metaphor and becomes the answer. Not ''IT takes the form of a Dragon'', but ''IT is a Dragon'', which are 2 different things. And I would frankly be disappointed of Kamachi for doing all this build up to something more, shall we say, metaphysical, and settle down for ''dragon'', which is the basic thing ever. Compared to the awesomeness of Aiwass? Yes, yes it does not compare. Eh, how so? It's not like it has become less possible Quote:
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And let's not even get into that the devil wasn't even there... Quote:
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If it were really Lucifer, it would make no sense for LPSAD Fiamma to sense himself weaker than IT. Lucifer isn't superior to God, especially after being cast out of the right seat. Quote:
Anyway, another argument against Lucifer being IT would be the Toaru Majutsu no Index II Archives 1 Audio Drama, where Magicians wanted to summon Lucifer, and how Touma prevents the summoning ritual with the Imagine Breaker. As Jesus said, ''If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?''. It would make no sense for Lucifer to be able to prevent his own summoning if he were in Touma's Right Hand (or at least he would have reacted to some degree).
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2014-03-27, 16:47 | Link #1913 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
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2014-03-27, 16:52 | Link #1914 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Anyway, I agree that both the IT and DS are different powers, for me the DS is the "other power" mencionad vol 22, what missing explain is because the DS was released in the fight against demon Mikoto and not IT, and the opposite against Othinus. |
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2014-03-27, 17:12 | Link #1915 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2012
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2014-03-27, 17:28 | Link #1916 | |
I’m sorry, Kamijou-san!!
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California
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Maybe it is possible that what is in his right hand is God, the creator. I've always thought that this was possible, but that his power is sealed while he is in his hand. It would explain why he could negate the power of God. The reason I have started to back of the idea of Choronzon is that it might take the form of a dragon more than once, and Choronzon manifests randomly. If it true that they are two separate powers, then the theory that it is Choronzon is more likely. I also think that whatever is in his right hand probably goes beyond Dragon, but dragon perhaps is one way of understanding it... Also, if you do check the wikia or perhaps volume 14 Terra states that he thinks Imagine Breaker might be responsible for the death of Jesus Christ, because he was wondering about the contradiction that the son of God was killed with human hands, though this could also be implying Imagine Breaker stores something divine. It would also make sense for IB to return things to normal, if God was the one behind it that created everything in the first place... but this theory doesn't have that much basis, except for the fact that Touma can control the IT which would mean he might be above God... yada yada... Furthermore, given that 2% of plans of Aleister are not affected by Imagine Breaker, have we seen those plans yet?... or was that just Battle Royale?... |
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