AnimeSuki Forums

Kismet-chan · 2011-05-23, 00:49

Lol, not to worry, I don't. I'm very used to it. I just like purposely calling out others' mistakes because it gives me pleasure.

>:}~

kimpleng · 2011-05-23, 10:37

If I remember correctly, this video(though I say video it is only sound) hasn't been posted in here.

Quote:

Dist · 2011-05-23, 15:38

I've got a question about the lottery ticket .. Weren't they aiming for the third place? If I recall correctly, one number was off about the ticket. Does that mean that the message to the past was actually incomplete which is why they didn't win? Or did they win? Because I don't get how you can win 3rd place price with a ticket that has 1 number off .. What kind of combination would then win the 2nd place?

It just confuses me that several people here have talked in a way that they did indeed win the lottery ..

TheGeekHuntress · 2011-05-23, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

I've got a question about the lottery ticket .. Weren't they aiming for the third place? If I recall correctly, one number was off about the ticket. Does that mean that the message to the past was actually incomplete which is why they didn't win? Or did they win? Because I don't get how you can win 3rd place price with a ticket that has 1 number off .. What kind of combination would then win the 2nd place?

It just confuses me that several people here have talked in a way that they did indeed win the lottery ..

They did not win and the number was off not because of a mistake made by Okarin but because the person who sent the text put a wrong number in which was why he was apologetic towards Okarin.

Dist · 2011-05-23, 16:03

The person who sent the text .. Don't you mean the person who received the text, that trap whatever his name is? I should probably rewatch the scene ... And so should many others in the thread who wrote about the episode claiming they won.

Riga92 · 2011-05-23, 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

The person who sent the text .. Don't you mean the person who received the text, that trap whatever his name is? I should probably rewatch the scene ... And so should many others in the thread who wrote about the episode claiming they won.

Okarin sent the D-mail with the numbers to himself, and in the new world line, he told Ruka to buy a lotto ticket using the numbers, although he doesn't remember doing that. Ruka however made a mistake on the last number. You can see it for a second when Okarin compares the numbers.

ken_FF · 2011-05-23, 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dist

I've got a question about the lottery ticket .. Weren't they aiming for the third place? If I recall correctly, one number was off about the ticket. Does that mean that the message to the past was actually incomplete which is why they didn't win? Or did they win? Because I don't get how you can win 3rd place price with a ticket that has 1 number off .. What kind of combination would then win the 2nd place?

Recall the explanation given by John Titor about Divergence of the existing worlds

it just means in the current world line, specifically the α world line, it converged into a world where okarin COULDN'T (not didn't) win the 3rd price in the lottery.

He'd have to change the divergence of the current world line in order to win the 3rd place.

GDB · 2011-05-23, 18:37

I may be misunderstanding the Japanese lottery system, but I don't think they were talking about "prize" or "place" in regards to first, second, and third. It seemed like it was a tiered system. If so, the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head would be scratch-offs, where you can pay more initially for a chance at a higher pay-off if you do win.

Malkuth · 2011-05-23, 21:46

I also don't remember exactly what happened, but my impression was that the Okarin from the new timeline, chickened out to use the winning numbers.

By the way, that also makes me wonder, what happens to the versions of Okarin from the time-lines that the Okarin narrating replaces?

Sol Falling · 2011-05-24, 00:11

The real John Titor stuff on the internet uses an idea of 'divergence number' between timelines. Basically, pasts and futures aren't always the same. Every time you travel to the past, little possibilities where things could have happened differently will show up between your past and your present timeline. The degree of these differences is measured, and assigned some sort of arbitrary percentage called the 'divergence number'.

Basically, divergence numbers were the excuse John Titor made up so that he didn't have to tell people future lottery numbers or the results of sports games, etc. to prove that he was a time traveller. He claimed that since there were always little divergences between different timelines, predictions of the future might not be accurate anyways.

What happened in episode 7 was that the new timeline 'diverged' so that the lottery numbers were off by one number. It's not that Okarin chickened out or Ruka made a mistake or anything. The timelines just happened differently. Incidentally, the Dr. Pepper showing up in the store that morning is probably just another example of these minor 'divergences'. It's not necessarily the butterfly effect as commonly used in time-travel stories--whereas the butterfly effect is based on tiny alterations creating larger disturbances further down the line, in John Titor and Steins;Gate's conceptions of time travel, even if one doesn't do anything, when somebody travels to the past there will always be minute 'divergences' due to the inherent quantum uncertainty/instability of the world anyway.

Incidentally, in Steins;Gate there seems to be an implication that the multiple worlds across timelines are somehow convergent/deterministic in that it is impossible to achieve greater than a 1% divergence number via time travel normally. Basically, no matter what kind of changes one tries to achieve in the past, the level of divergence in terms of actual differences never progresses beyond 1% (by whatever measure they are using) across timelines. What 'John Titor' is thus saying by saying Okabe as the potential to lead the world beyond divergence number 1% is basically just that, with his ability, he has the potential to change the future. Speculation-wise, the prevention of Makise Kurisu's death which happened in episode 1 might be an example of this.

Anyway, it's true that there appears to be two different kinds of time travel in this series--the more common trope whereby individuals are physically transported to a new world i.e. the past/future (John Titor and Suzuha being examples), and the more entropically based kind of time travel where a person just replaces their past counterpart. I guess technically Okarin isn't time travelling though--that would rather be the D-mail that's doing the actual travelling. As far as what happens to the 'past' Okabe's which Okarin replaces by retaining his memories--I don't think there's necessarily any question there, as it must be the same thing that happens to the previous Mayuris, Kurisus, Dakus, etc. who no longer exist in this timeline. Okabe isn't really 'travelling' to new timelines by changing the past via D-mail, he is actually rather completely overwriting the current one, so just as the Mayuris and Kurisus of the past got overwritten as the new timeline replaces the old one, so too does the new Okabe disappear once the timeline progresses to the point where Okarin 'resynchs' with it with his past memories.

tomtkp · 2011-05-24, 00:48

Quote:

What happened in episode 7 was that the new timeline 'diverged' so that the lottery numbers were off by one number. It's not that Okarin chickened out or Ruka made a mistake or anything. The timelines just happened differently.

Spoiler for reason for the wrong lottery number:

Sol Falling · 2011-05-24, 02:31

lol, ok? Seems I was wrong then...kinda makes that long post up there a bit embarassing, whoops. I'm a bit unclear on why a 'reason' needs to be revealed if it really was just that Luka messed up on the lottery number, but I guess I'll just let the anime tell its story...hm.

revive4563 · 2011-05-24, 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomtkp

Spoiler for reason for the wrong lottery number:

Really? was there the explanation about it? I can't remember. He made mistake because he's clumsy, isn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

lol, ok? Seems I was wrong then...kinda makes that long post up there a bit embarassing, whoops.

Since Sci-fi fan's enthusiastic always.

BaKaBaKaOtaKu · 2011-05-24, 03:11

I haven't had the time to catch up with this awesome show. D'X

kurisu...

NutShell · 2011-05-24, 05:29

sori if i ask

anyone know what okarin job ?

@_@ from where the found for future gadget lab ?

Malkuth · 2011-05-24, 05:39

Okarin is a university student, I think.

ken_FF · 2011-05-24, 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutShell

sori if i ask

anyone know what okarin job ?

@_@ from where the found for future gadget lab ?

Yup, Okarin is an university student.

NutShell · 2011-05-24, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Okarin is a university student, I think.

a university student

whoa he is a university student and have his own lab

quite impressive i think

jeroz · 2011-05-24, 08:51

yes, his "lab"

just like how I have a dungeon in the basement

erneiz_hyde · 2011-05-24, 09:00

Remember, Okarin is actually still 18 years old, which makes him at his first year of college at most.

To me it's not strictly a "lab", it's just where he indulges in his hobby which happens to be somewhat-scientific endeavors. Afterall Mayuri used it to sew her clothes. And the building he rent from Tennoji is said to be so cheap so that's why he can afford it.

2011-05-23, 15:38	Link #1083
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	I've got a question about the lottery ticket .. Weren't they aiming for the third place? If I recall correctly, one number was off about the ticket. Does that mean that the message to the past was actually incomplete which is why they didn't win? Or did they win? Because I don't get how you can win 3rd place price with a ticket that has 1 number off .. What kind of combination would then win the 2nd place? It just confuses me that several people here have talked in a way that they did indeed win the lottery .. __________________

2011-05-23, 16:03	Link #1085
Dist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Finland Age: 33	The person who sent the text .. Don't you mean the person who received the text, that trap whatever his name is? I should probably rewatch the scene ... And so should many others in the thread who wrote about the episode claiming they won. __________________

2011-05-24, 08:51	Link #1099
jeroz Art Block Specialist Join Date: Jun 2007	yes, his "lab" just like how I have a dungeon in the basement __________________ [TAC]

2011-05-24, 09:00	Link #1100
erneiz_hyde 18782+18782=37564 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: InterWebs	Remember, Okarin is actually still 18 years old, which makes him at his first year of college at most. To me it's not strictly a "lab", it's just where he indulges in his hobby which happens to be somewhat-scientific endeavors. Afterall Mayuri used it to sew her clothes. And the building he rent from Tennoji is said to be so cheap so that's why he can afford it. __________________

2011-05-23, 00:49	Link #1081
Kismet-chan The Chaotic Dreamer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world Age: 32	Lol, not to worry, I don't. I'm very used to it. I just like purposely calling out others' mistakes because it gives me pleasure. >:}~

2011-05-23, 18:37	Link #1088
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	I may be misunderstanding the Japanese lottery system, but I don't think they were talking about "prize" or "place" in regards to first, second, and third. It seemed like it was a tiered system. If so, the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head would be scratch-offs, where you can pay more initially for a chance at a higher pay-off if you do win.

2011-05-23, 21:46	Link #1089
Malkuth Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London Age: 43	I also don't remember exactly what happened, but my impression was that the Okarin from the new timeline, chickened out to use the winning numbers. By the way, that also makes me wonder, what happens to the versions of Okarin from the time-lines that the Okarin narrating replaces?

2011-05-24, 00:11	Link #1090
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	The real John Titor stuff on the internet uses an idea of 'divergence number' between timelines. Basically, pasts and futures aren't always the same. Every time you travel to the past, little possibilities where things could have happened differently will show up between your past and your present timeline. The degree of these differences is measured, and assigned some sort of arbitrary percentage called the 'divergence number'. Basically, divergence numbers were the excuse John Titor made up so that he didn't have to tell people future lottery numbers or the results of sports games, etc. to prove that he was a time traveller. He claimed that since there were always little divergences between different timelines, predictions of the future might not be accurate anyways. What happened in episode 7 was that the new timeline 'diverged' so that the lottery numbers were off by one number. It's not that Okarin chickened out or Ruka made a mistake or anything. The timelines just happened differently. Incidentally, the Dr. Pepper showing up in the store that morning is probably just another example of these minor 'divergences'. It's not necessarily the butterfly effect as commonly used in time-travel stories--whereas the butterfly effect is based on tiny alterations creating larger disturbances further down the line, in John Titor and Steins;Gate's conceptions of time travel, even if one doesn't do anything, when somebody travels to the past there will always be minute 'divergences' due to the inherent quantum uncertainty/instability of the world anyway. Incidentally, in Steins;Gate there seems to be an implication that the multiple worlds across timelines are somehow convergent/deterministic in that it is impossible to achieve greater than a 1% divergence number via time travel normally. Basically, no matter what kind of changes one tries to achieve in the past, the level of divergence in terms of actual differences never progresses beyond 1% (by whatever measure they are using) across timelines. What 'John Titor' is thus saying by saying Okabe as the potential to lead the world beyond divergence number 1% is basically just that, with his ability, he has the potential to change the future. Speculation-wise, the prevention of Makise Kurisu's death which happened in episode 1 might be an example of this. Anyway, it's true that there appears to be two different kinds of time travel in this series--the more common trope whereby individuals are physically transported to a new world i.e. the past/future (John Titor and Suzuha being examples), and the more entropically based kind of time travel where a person just replaces their past counterpart. I guess technically Okarin isn't time travelling though--that would rather be the D-mail that's doing the actual travelling. As far as what happens to the 'past' Okabe's which Okarin replaces by retaining his memories--I don't think there's necessarily any question there, as it must be the same thing that happens to the previous Mayuris, Kurisus, Dakus, etc. who no longer exist in this timeline. Okabe isn't really 'travelling' to new timelines by changing the past via D-mail, he is actually rather completely overwriting the current one, so just as the Mayuris and Kurisus of the past got overwritten as the new timeline replaces the old one, so too does the new Okabe disappear once the timeline progresses to the point where Okarin 'resynchs' with it with his past memories.

2011-05-24, 02:31	Link #1092
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	lol, ok? Seems I was wrong then...kinda makes that long post up there a bit embarassing, whoops. I'm a bit unclear on why a 'reason' needs to be revealed if it really was just that Luka messed up on the lottery number, but I guess I'll just let the anime tell its story...hm.

2011-05-24, 03:11	Link #1094
BaKaBaKaOtaKu Stupidity is Bliss. Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: In Hancock's Heart	I haven't had the time to catch up with this awesome show. D'X kurisu...

2011-05-24, 05:29	Link #1095
NutShell Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011	sori if i ask anyone know what okarin job ? @_@ from where the found for future gadget lab ?

2011-05-24, 05:39	Link #1096
Malkuth Banned Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: London Age: 43	Okarin is a university student, I think.